That's Right: "Black, Gay and OK"
By Kenneth Winfrey, in viewpoints
Tuesday, October 30 2007, 11:39AM
Kenneth Winfrey Reports
Sixty-four posted comments trailed Keith’s October 4 piece titled “Black, Gay and OK.” Many rejected the notion from the Columbia University's Mailman School of Public Health study he referenced which found that more black gays and lesbians could be living a happier life than their white counterparts. Now, a new national demographic study goes further to support that assertion and it also refutes some other long-held notions about the LGBT community in general.
This study, among other surprising revelations, seems to effectively debunk the myths put forth largely by the media that lesbians and gay men are “affluent, educated, urban—and usually white.” Not only is it one of the few national demographic studies that highlight the diversity of the LGBT community, it also supports the findings of the report from Columbia University that “we” might well be handling “the life” better than others.
New American Dimensions, a Los Angeles market research company, and San Francisco-based AsterixGroup, a brand strategy firm, joined forces to paint a more accurate portrait of the nation’s gay and lesbian market. “We wanted to bust some stereotypes,” said David Morse, president and chief executive of New American Dimensions. And bust them is what they did.
Among the findings that surprised these researchers (and me) most was a strong indication that African-Americans and Hispanics were more comfortable expressing their gay identity than whites. Given that the study reports 77% of respondents were “completely out,” I guess that shouldn’t be a total surprise, and it would follow the trend in the LGBT community, in general: We are more and more claiming the right to be open and honest about who we are. Logically, people of color within the LGBT community shouldn’t be expected to follow that trend any less. I found it interesting that a further distinction is made. “African Americans are also more open about their gay identity than Caucasians, however gender and racial identity carry far more significant meaning to them then sexual orientation,” the report states.
Moreover, this striking assertion that blacks and Latinos are more comfortable expressing their gay identity flies in the face of what is generally believed to be a disproportionate amount of homophobia in the black and Latino communities. It also makes the notion of an epidemic “down low” even harder to prove, and, if nothing else, makes me feel good to know that my LGBT brothers and sisters of color are not as repressed as I once thought. This also flies in the face of the notion that hyper-masculinity (supported by the stereotypes that perpetuate about black and Latin men as “Mandingoes,” or “Latin lovers”) in these ethnic groups will make us less likely to be out or live fully affirmed existence as homosexuals.
Other Interesting Findings
It is often stated that minority communities are too fragmented and closeted to take a stand and get things done. However this report, titled "Real World Lesbians & Gays," states that Caucasian gays and lesbians are more fragmented, tend to stay at home more, and are more closeted. The report further states that “Overall, they are the least comfortable about their gay identity and are much more likely to feel discriminated against for being gay.”
It also states that they support human rights organizations such as HRC and GLAAD more, which seems a natural manifestation of a belief that they are discriminated against. These organizations wield a lot of influence, suggesting that white lesbians and gays work well through organizations behind which they can hide their individual identities. A few out representatives of the organization can protect countless individuals who wish to remain in the closet. Perhaps it's not as much about being out (or even following political party lines, for example) as it is about being organized.
According to Mike Swift of the San Jose Mercury News, the diversity of the LGBT community should not have been surprising. It's not only what the rainbow flag itself symbolizes but, as Swift said, “The diversity the researchers found mirrors what demographers using U.S. Census Bureau and other demographic data have reported about the nation’s gay and lesbian population.” That means that TV shows like “Will and Grace” and “Queer Eye for the Straight Guy” are based on a premise more fiction than reality (duh), and that the producers of these shows may not have been aware of (or cared about) the facts, as they were available in the 2000 census. “Will and Grace” premiered in 1998, so I'll excuse them for the first two years.
Other interesting insights on African American Gays and Lesbians include:
- African American gays and lesbians identify themselves first with race (88% which comes ahead of gender 83%). This manifested in having the highest preference for living in an ethnically mixed neighborhood (51%) and in mentioning race as the top issue of their concern.
- African American gays and lesbians have the strongest family values. Markedly more currently have or plan to have children at home (21% vs.9% for Caucasians and 10% for Hispanics). This report also suggests that even though whites were more likely to be in live-in relationships than Latinos or blacks, they were less likely to include children as part of our plans for a future together.
- They are the only ethnic group mentioning women & children’s issues as their top 5 concerns.
- African American gays and lesbians describe themselves as sophisticated and intellectual.
- They spend more time surfing the Internet compared to others and significantly more use MySpace (46% vs. 26% for Caucasians).
- African American gays and lesbians are living mostly in big city metro areas, and they are self described as cutting edge and rebellious.
The Prejudice Among Us
Swift also talked with Gary Gates, a demographer at the University of California Los Angeles Center for Population Research about the notion that gay men (white ones, in particular) have more money. Gates said that “the New American Dimensions/Asterix Group study differs from other marketing studies, in that there was not a primary focus on the white, male, affluent demographic.” In other words, they chose to look at other groups, for a change, and found that there was an entire market of real people of all colors out there, and that we all have money to spend. This, in my opinion goes much farther than the often celebrated ads that are planted in LGBT focused magazines and other media. After all, we are not just a market to be harvested. We deserve to be fully recognized as consumers with diverse and specific needs and interests.
Gates confronts the myth of gay and/or white wealth head-on. He states that “Gay men actually make less money than other men. And every time I say that, people say ‘What?’ “ I actually didn’t find that hard to believe when I read it, and I don’t expect other gay men will be surprised either. I'm not obviously white, but before I began working for myself, I almost always found that I was paid less than men who were married and with families for the same work. Yet, I constantly get the impression that my straight friends think that I have more disposable cash simply because I am a gay man with no children. I also get the impression that women presume we, as gay men, are at the top of the salary scale because we are men. I really don't think that people realize that discrimination against men who are gay (and/or black) hits us in the wallet too.
Whatever people thought about rich white gay men spending all their extra money, this study also states that “Caucasian gays and lesbians spend the least on fashion, are most likely to have credit cards, shared saving accounts and retirement accounts.“ Have retailers and industry been targeting the wrong people all along?
As it is with any group, the one-size-fits-all approach doesn’t work for the LGBT community either. “It would be wrong for marketers to think that this was rich and white, male, partying group,” said Christine Lehtonen, president of Asterix. In that same vein, the generalization that all or most lesbians and gay men of color are more oppressed, less educated, or poor within the context of their culture is also an unfair generalization. That, for me, was the most powerful message of the results of this study.
For those of you who may have lacked confidence in the Columbia findings because of the small number of participants, here is a study based on more than 900 in-person and online surveys conducted during the month of June with an equal number of men and women, done by market researchers—who, by the way, must rely on the most stringent of methods to support their work which determines how industry packages and markets products and services—that affirms the statement “Black, Gay, and OK.”
I am in no way suggesting that our struggles are over. I believe that there is much work to be done in LGBT communities of color, I just also pray for the day when we all become more accustomed and receptive to good news about our communities.
Comments conceal
Chris
October 30 2007, 1:03PM
This is pleasantly surprising to me. To be honest, some of the findings are hard to believe, but I guess some of my perceptions about our LGBT communities of color are flawed.
For example, I always thought white gay men were more comfortable in their skin compared to their racial-minority counterparts, and I am a black man. I figured that had to do with our cultural tendency for hypermasculinity expression, and the warped idea that being gay diminishes our manhood.
If the findings of this study are accurate, that means we have made a lot more progress than we might have thought we did.
Billy
October 30 2007, 1:12PM
I admit some parts of the article were hard to believe, but it was good to read that researchers are actively trying to debunk long standing stereotypes, and tell an accurate story.
Shabaka
October 30 2007, 1:24PM
Surprising, indeed! Marketing companies'd better adjust then! Or else. Great topic, Kenneth, as usual.
alicia banks
October 30 2007, 2:51PM
thanks for the cheer!
this made my day!
i am very proud to be a successful afrocentric intellectual lesbian...
and even prouder to be your sista!
peace
alicia banks
eloquent fury
www.geocities.com/ambwww
T. Zac
October 30 2007, 2:58PM
None of this surprised me at all.
Often white gay men (those not effeminate) are usually "DL".
Many (of the olderst) primarily white gay bars in the United States are in areas that do not have a high white population. I wonder why they don't have a gay bar in their own neighborhood.
Also white gay men tend to have the biggest problem with being out because when they are out they loose a level of power. That is their fear. White men are on the top; if they are gay they are now part of a "minority" group or “othered” and therefore relinquish a measure of their historic power.
Most gay men are single (that is, not married to a woman). There have been many studies that indicate single men earn less than married. This has been attributed to the idea that single men do not need as much money as married men because they don’t have to provide for a family. Therefore it is likely that gay men will earn less.
Justin
October 30 2007, 4:53PM
Gee, a survey by a group based soley in San Francisco in California. Don't you think it was a bit too skewed and biased being that it was done a state that has a large gay population? I still stand by my statements about the original Columbia study. There's lies and Damn lies and there are statistics.
Karmatic
October 30 2007, 4:55PM
As with the previous study, I find this to be utter nonsense!
I'm starting to wonder if someone is trying to push
an agenda with these bogus studies.
MidwestGuy
October 30 2007, 4:58PM
Kenneth, good job at following up on this story.
Yes, some of the findings are a bit surprising. But good nonetheless.
I remember that when this article was first written, MidwestGuy (the anti-gay poster) was one of those who was defending the possibile validity of the study and Keith writing it.
Hopefully we won't repeat that here.
Encouraging news indeed.
Andy
October 30 2007, 7:02PM
Any news like this study is good news as long as it does not portray the gay community as a bunch of tweaked, blond, ridiculously muscled, white men with too much money and time on their hands. Its a huge community, and a very diverse one, so, any study that even begins to discount the television ads as a false myth, and any of the gay magazines and 95% of the gay oriented online sites are a good start. This whole thing of the media has of anything other than white as gay, is just weird and well, other things, since the gay and lesbian community is just as if not more diverse than the rest of the country. And, it helps those in communities of color relate, or at least understand that gay does not equate, rich, white males, they even forget the poor and middle class white ones in this frenzy of "style makers."
Jackle
October 30 2007, 7:07PM
Uh Justin I think it was a "National Study".
Something still doesn't feel right about all of its outcomes I do like the part about the /more homophobic thing/ being put to rest but the rest is well "eh".
And Chris I don't think it leads to /more homophobia/ but it's just structured differently.But I do agree that the results are odd. Not because white gays are better but this too "In that same vein, the generalization that all or most lesbians and gay men of color are more oppressed, less educated, or poor within the context of their culture is also an unfair generalization."
Makes it really seems off to me. But I guess hurray. Black gay and okay is a good thing but all of this just doesn't feel right in a way.
Floridaboy8703
October 30 2007, 7:43PM
I really believe the findings of this article. I attend an historically black university and I can assure that the movers and the shakers on the campus are homosexuals. They may or may not be masculine/feminine but all the people doing big things on campus are gay I promise. From SGA, Band, Dancing, and modeling, and academics. The gay males in general are running circles around the other males. And there surpringly isn't a strong culture of homophobia going on around campus either. The "flamboyant" gays are loved by the hyper thug guys for some reason. And the every day gay boy or guy is more than accepted and there are no cases of gay violence or bashing on my campus. There is a large number of black lesbians who dress in boys clothes everyday and its accepted as normal. Black gays are attending college and being awarded degrees in huge numbers. We are getting well paying jobs and doing big things! I believe this article and its findings! Of course gay blacks are doing better.
Ostend Street
October 30 2007, 8:53PM
Stay alert children! Stay alert. Let's not start to get to comfortable and let's remain focused. The last time I heard, black folk got a little to comfortable and we ended up with Jena 6 and the aftermath of Katrina. So, stay awake.
John
October 30 2007, 9:15PM
I've read this over and over and over - with all respect and intent to understand -- and it just gets siller and more pedantic when finally understanding what its suggesting. WHO CARES! This is ridiculous! The reason why we have so many racial problems is that we insist that white colored people have to live a white life and that black colored people have to live a black life and it makes no account for people who are just trying to be good human beings -- which should be the point now 12,000 years later. This report gives no respect to people who live full, balanced lives independent of you and your researchers stereotypes. Its this type of trivial mindless minutaed crap that fragments people and creates divisevness among otherwise very human people just trying to get by in the world. And for the record I make more money than my heterosexual male colleagues - black or white because I am judged on my individual merits. And to suggest a desire for children can be attributed to skin color is irresponsible
Floridaboy8703 Cont.
October 31 2007, 2:08AM
It is my experience and belief that gay black males are more oriented towards academic success. Because they are often ridiculed for being weak or not manly enough to compete in the athletic arena. So its natural that gays boys would drift towards academic success as a means of leveling the playing field. The gay/feminine black guy who has a 4.0 gpa consistently and graduates at the top of his class will be just as revered as the straight black guy who was the star football player. And as far as the confidence in ourselves and our identity. Black gays learn early on that you might as well forget about what others think of you becuz its something you face a lot in the black community in general. So by the time black gays get of adulthood our sense of self and thick skin are fully developed. Gotta love the good news! YOUNG, BLACK, GIFTED, GAY, AND OK!
nhlanhla -South Africa
October 31 2007, 4:12AM
This to me is so childish:
a.Does this mkt study conclude anywhere that blk gay men have more money than white gays? Did the study break the sample into income by racial groups? I think you imply this here: “Gates confronts the myth of gay white wealth head-on”. You report that: the study says whites spend less on fashion; have credit cards, shared accounts, retirement accounts. To me that seems to say whites maybe more sensible with money and would have more in future? And did the study break the sample for education by race? To indicate that blk education is higher or comparable to whites? You imply this as ur most powerful msg in 2nd last para.
b.That there’s an untapped blk mkt doesn’t equate to ‘that mkt is wealthier than the white one’?
c.STILL: Does the mkt study say anywhere that the sample was randomly distributed? And among who exactly? What was access to the interviews? Online & bars? That is key.
d.So: Why are blk men less likely to be in a relationships, when they are so family oriented?
nhlanhla S.Africa
October 31 2007, 4:18AM
e.Why are there more white participants in gay events (e.g. London and JHB pride) that are not targeted at one particular race, IF whites are generally more closeted and blk are rebellious and richer?
f.Why are blks surfing the net more if they are happier being OUT?
g.Why do they live in bigger more anonymous cities & metropoles? If they are so family oriented?
h.Also: why do I see more senior white men in gay public spaces than I do senior blk men?
Marketing studies do not normally have a social theory on which to collect & explain trends in data. The interest is in trends, not the social forces motivating them, hence the short research period of 4 months?
Aren't there blk gay reputable researchers in here to conduct, (not rush) this NB research?
brucito
October 31 2007, 4:51AM
Karmatic you took the words right out of my head. It is obvious that you do not have to be a title of Reverend to be a race baiter. This entire site proves it. Over 300 million people live in the United States. This survey is based on the response of only 900 people.
Nhlanhla
October 31 2007, 6:34AM
brucito: 900 observations are more than enough for finding results of statistical significance in HOMOGENUOUS samples. But that sample must be normally distributed to be representative. In this and the Columbia cases, the methods used in collecting the observations/data did not appear appropriate to meet that criteria. Most of the observations were admittedly of self identified gay and out respondents. That is the big flaw for generalised inferences. It is like preaching to the converted and then claiming miraculous spiritual successes.
Also, there is a logical breakdown in thinking or hoping that a MULTITUDE of studies with similar flaws and results will somehow suddenly lead to more accurate results and intepretations. In contrast, a single but flawless study in methods would achieve that. So, one more dubious study i.t.o methods will not answer any important question. This even before a sound social theory for explanations of trends is presented. mmh?
Mon
October 31 2007, 8:14AM
While I would love to be elated by these findings, I am not. It's a bit strange that most of the respondents to this article are gay Black men and a good portion of us think this is hogwash. We are gay and Black everyday and I think it's safe to say that the findings of this study, in very few ways, reflects the life we lead and see lead daily. From what I see (not scientific at all):
1) Blacks are more likely to be comfortable with being gay but less likely to "flaunt" it. Don't ask, don't tell.
2) We do develop a thick skin early on from being Black that also shields us as gay men.
3) The younger Black gay generation is a lot more open here in NYC (can't speak for places i don't live) but still not as likely to "flaunt" their sexuality.
4) Those of us who live in major metro areas like NYC & Atlanta can't really speak to what it's like to be gay in say, Tulsa, OK. I'm sure it's very different existence.
MidwestGuy
October 31 2007, 9:09AM
Nhlanhla, since you are seemingly well-versed on the elements required for a "reputable" study, why don't you spearhead an effort to critically debunk it.
It's great that we are able to think that there is very little positive to say about black gays and question the motivation of those who bring us the information.
At least this helps younger gays to know that there isn't much good for them to look forward to.
nhlanhla
October 31 2007, 10:32AM
MidwestGuy: I'm angry born black in a racist country & made worse by experiences of being gay.I DON’T wish the cycle continues for anyone after me.STILL I’d not encourage drug/alcohol taking to feel better. In that vein, I don’t think it’s responsible for flawed studies to inform what wud be wasteful policies. That stated, I don’t think that ‘our’ lives couldn’t be improved upon. In recent past, i’v looked at & contributed to reports from all kinds of data, but mostly economic, some sexual, most of which were better collected & final papers premised on contextualised theories. Findings often depressing, at a personal level. Overall I remain optimistic, knowing: with a clearer picture, even if dire, of going-ons per context, more effective & long-term remedies could be instituted. Views I outlined are specific to the reported researches, not my social wishes for the blk LGBTs. So, I'd be happy part of such research. Based in US, YOU’d be better placed to propose sounder social theories than me. Love & peace.
'dre
October 31 2007, 11:01AM
Thanks for sharing this Kenneth, too bad there are still so many negative, angry people who refuse to be happy and nitpick any positive thread on message boards.
The black gay and lesbian community is never going to of the same thought, just like every other group, but, to see some good news, is great, since I get tired of seeing negative things about that insipid DL, or that we are all promiscuous and are sick.
And, some need to do some research on how scientific surveys are taken before going off the handle.
the envy of the world
October 31 2007, 11:43AM
As a young black American male who loves men, this helps affirm my positive outlook on my identity and my life and goals. Thank you so much for sharing this information.
It's all love.
MLee
October 31 2007, 6:16PM
Like the last study, I am in total agreement with this one.
John, I totally agree with most of your sentiments. However, as long as the items in this study were thought to be just the opposite, there were no complaints from either whites or blacks. Now that things appear to be on the other foot, there is a problem.
elg
November 1 2007, 9:02AM
Don't get me wrong, I think it's great that black gays are, according to this study, so well-adjusted. In fact, better adjusted than white gays. It's just that I'm wondering where are these well-adjusted black gay men in real life. Maybe, they're well adjusted and don't want to be in committed same-sex relationships/marriages. In my midwestern city, most of the black gay men I know are not in long term relationships and the ones who are in seemingly solid relationships are usually (not always, but usually) with white guys. This is their perogative, as far as I'm concerned, but I'm just saying.
An earlier commenter wrote that black gay men are more (than straight black men?) oriented towards academic success. I hope so, because that education and training gives them greater freedom to live their lives on their own terms.
Lisa
November 1 2007, 12:48PM
Can someone to a study on many Gay Americans were raped or molested as children? I feel that many people who are struggling with their sexual identity were taken advantage of as children. Happiness comes from a solid self-identity most people develop that identity as children. Do that survey and then report the findings it will be surprising
ramsueno
November 1 2007, 3:18PM
As a Black Gay male who was taken advantage of by an adult, it took me a long time to structure my identity without embedding myself in the victim camp and learning that sex with another man is not the same as being forced to have sex with a man. As I look back from my 30-something perch, I see that I may have spent a lot of time "searching" for my identity in the usual low places (lotsa sex, drugs and rockin that roll...) and in high places (giving more weight to one aspect of who I am over others, Black-gay-student-male-liberal power and all that) but through the struggle to find my identity may have been hindered by my abuse, their isn't one easy path to discovering who you will be. I think its all just strengthened who I am now.
Connor
November 1 2007, 9:49PM
Maybe Im living in a fantasy world. My partner and I are both in our 20's combined salary exceeding 100K. We dont have many friends but we live a great life. Im sure many people black and white are not living at the bottom of the barrel. We share a joint account, bought a house together.We have exceeded the 6 year margin and I am still madly and deeply in love with my baby. So maybe we are the minority but I am sure alot of men are living a life void of violence, infidelity and poverty. Don't believe the hype many of us are programmed and indoctrinated to believe the stuff that they put in magazines and on television. The reality is this for me. I believe in SELF VALIDATION AND DEFINITION. We dont have to wear the LABELs that others put on us. Realistically speaking if whites and others non minority where to wear the labels that call to them. We all all be afraid and be living in fear due to the travesties and mindless atrocities committed against blacks as a whole.
Insightful 28 year old LIBRA
elg
November 2 2007, 4:51AM
Lisa, you raise an interesting point. A number of black gay men I have known have told me stories about being sexually abused when they were children. Some of the black gay men who told me these stories believe the abuse "made them gay".
nhlanhla - S.A.
November 2 2007, 8:03AM
Hoping that Lisa was geniune and not bashful:
I'd say becareful that gay men were to be more likely to report that they were abused at an earlier age than would straight men, because of some other SOCIAL FACTORS.
If gays, more than straights were more likely to report childhood abuse, you will end up with a bais problem and conclude inaccurately.
e.g. if same % of gays and straights are abused in real life, then abuse does not predict sexuality
but if more gays report this abuse, you'd find that a higher number of gays have been abused than straights, and this would lead you into thinking that abuse contributes by some % in predicting one's gay sexuality. But of course you'd be wrong, because gays over reported. Hence, only the understanding of social factors informs stats, not vice versa.
Same bias problem going for the self selecting (gay identified, etc) samples informing the O.K.? reports
MLee
November 2 2007, 9:41AM
Connor, always appreciate your baby/partner. He is the most precious thing on this earth and so are you. It’s OK to argue sometimes. The best part of arguing is making up.
Love,
MLee
For the life of me, I cannot understand what is stopping most people on Keith’s sight, including me, from enjoying the same kind of life as Connor and his partner? Are we letting the homophobes win?
Jackle
November 2 2007, 9:55PM
I mean I seriously have to agree. I wonder if any of you are seeing the underlying thingherethat black gays /are not more oppressed/ meaning either race or sexuality means little to us and that's very untrue. It also allows people to continue ignoring us, I mean if they're ok why do they need anything else? We should focus on white gays
It bothers me in many ways because it undermines the oppression people who are black and gay. I don't know if you all skipped that part but that's what thi whole thing seems to be for not really for black gays and again I must say nnhlaha brings up good points.
This also gives heterosexual black people a reason to brush off anything with homophobia, because if we aren't really suffering and we're all so rich like the white gays are propped up to be us pushing for acceptance might seem more than a little greedy. I'm happy for people like Connor but I honestly can't see them as the majority.
Mitch
November 4 2007, 4:13PM
Lisa,
It is my understanding that over 1/3 of all black girls and women have experienced some kind of sexual abuse or assault.
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