Black, Gay and OK

Equalnox
October 4 2007, 11:25AM

If the deaf kid had heard them coming, he could have made a run for it.

bubba
October 4 2007, 12:41PM

Well, we've always had a rough go of it, no matter what the sexuality. But it must be a blow to the ego when your guaranteed white skin privileges are lessened by who you sleep with. The brass ring, in the wrong size.

Kenneth Winfrey
October 4 2007, 12:48PM

Facing racism defnitely prepares us for the hardships of "the life."

In the meantime, however, I am wondering how this translates to other areas. While we are doing well in mental health, is that wellness also producing higher quality of life overall? (i.e., lower rates of disease, higher rates of gradutation, employment, income, etc.)

Anthony
October 4 2007, 1:29PM

I think that it shows, straddling three worlds isn't easy, straight world, black world, gay world, and, unless you are tough, you just won't make it. If, you can deal with subtle and not so subtle racism daily, the words of Gloria Gaynor ring true, "I will Survive."

ramsueno
October 4 2007, 1:40PM

The power of a well placed snap...

B-Boy
October 4 2007, 1:53PM

A whole 388 people in New York, the biggest city in the U.S. as the study group. Sorry, but that does not mean anything conclusive, considering the homophobia that runs rampant in the south and the midwest Bible Belt.

To claim that this is "conclusive" is irresponsible, Mr. Boykin. I can show you ten studies that show much broader research nation-wide that shows young black gays have the highest rates of suicide and clinical depression relative to any other ethnic demographic.

"White gays and lesbians grow up in a world where they do not face prejudice"???? LMAO! Did this researcher double check that statement with Matthew Shepard's family?????

Thank god this is just a blog and not a legitimate news source.

alicia banks
October 4 2007, 2:37PM

great news keith!!!

u amde my day

thanks!

yet another testament to our superior strength overall...

especially since our white gay counterparts suffer far less than we do intraracially...due to our collective abuses by rabid black hypochristians/preacher pimps/macho thugs/bimbo hos etc...and all other hyper and toxic black gaybashers...

peace
ab
www.geocities.com/ambwww

Ostend Street
October 4 2007, 2:39PM

If you are independent minded and an independent, creative thinking force to be reckoned with, who cares what the latest survey says. This one seems to be borderline anecdotal. Thanks for the information though. I think suicide, depression and a host of societal woes run across all demographics; however, some of us have been forced to have better survival techniques then others be it spiritual or otherwise. Also, we are learning to love ourselves.

MidwestGuy
October 4 2007, 3:07PM

B-Boy,

Studies, surveys and polls gather information from small sections of the population to arrive at a reasonable conclusion. Most political polling is "conclusive" based on polling of around 1500 people. That's a whole 1500 in an entire country of more than 140 million voting-age.

The next time you see a political poll, research the number of respondents used as a determiner. It may shock you more than the 388.

So, a study can be conclusive based on the variables used. Yet, it still is a hypothesis.

I would definately be most interested in seeing those studies you talked about. Can you post the results of at least 4 of those 10 studies that use the exact same variables as this particular study?

That would help the information passing throughout this blog to become more legitimate.

See how we all can do better together?

Thanks

Troy
October 4 2007, 3:14PM

That's the power of being same gender loving, or gay, no one really can tell us who or what we are and how we came to be. Never ever is there one way to look at a diamond; you didn't know? But I actually liked Winfrey's answer to this a few articles back: We are not our conclusions or anything man made.

Justin
October 4 2007, 3:15PM

I agree totally with b-boy about this study? 388 people out of say 100 million? It just doesn't add up.
Speaking for my self, I can contest that things in my life having been a bed of roses. I won't get into details, but lest just say that happiness has eluded me my whole life. If anybody out there know any group or people I can hook up with, just leave the info on this post.

Blue
October 4 2007, 3:26PM

I'm not really buying this. And I say that because most black folks, especially the children, who are fucked up in the head would never claim it. When you engage most black people in a debate about mental illness half of them don't even believe it exists. So in their minds they probably are OK. They think their coping methods when dealing with their peers where their sexuality is concerned are healthy, when typically they aren't. I'd be curious to know how many of them were totally out.

J
October 4 2007, 3:40PM

While we're talking about white gays, why are there about fifty realjock.com ads featuring ghost white boys all over this site. It's like gay.com only whiter.

I don't have a group of 388, 1500, or 15 million to back me up, but I think it's fair to say that black folk in general are a little more together, gay, straight, or whatever.

We can't afford to be neurotic.

Most of us have too much crap to deal with to worry about someone's opinion of who gets us hot and those of us who are really up against something put sexuality(which is one very small part of who you are)on the back burner.

We're the people most minorities and "freaks" of other groups in society run to for acceptance and support. Given our position, contrary to what white media promotes, we are more accepting and tolerant than most other communities.

B-Boy
October 4 2007, 4:03PM

Hey Midwest Guy - how about from the study that Boykin is referring to, for starters (Google for more referneces after that - there's tons of info):

By contrast to the findings about mental disorders, more black and Latino gay men, lesbians, and bisexuals than whites reported a history of serious suicide attempts.

“Because these suicide attempts occurred at an early age, typically during the teenage, we can speculate that they coincided with a coming-out period and were related to the social disapprobation afforded to lesbian, gay, and bisexual identities,” Dr. Meyer said. The findings were consistent with the notion that these problems may be more potent among lesbians, gay men, and bisexual youth in Latino and other communities of color.

I guess Mr. Boykin just forgot to include that part of the study...

David
October 4 2007, 4:07PM

"The study looked at 388 white, black and Latino New York City residents between the ages of 18 and 59 who identified themselves as lesbian, gay, or bisexual."
The study was looking at people who were already identified as same gender-loving.
This was one interesting part of the study for me.
I think its valid to see how we live our lives AFTER we learn first to accept and then to celebrate ourselves.

Keith Boykin
October 4 2007, 4:19PM

Apparently somebody didn't read the entire article above. It says:

"The study did find some reasons for serious concern, however. More black and Latino gay men, lesbians, and bisexuals than whites reported a history of serious suicide attempts. 'Because these suicide attempts occurred at an early age, typically during the teenage, we can speculate that they coincided with a coming-out period and were related to the social disapprobation afforded to lesbian, gay, and bisexual identities,' Dr. Meyer said."

MidwestGuy
October 4 2007, 4:34PM

Let me back up.

B-boy, it seems as if you are ?'ng the results of the study and criticizing Keith's info-sharing.

As you noted, there is a link provided for all of us to do our own research to validite this claim.

That said, Keith and the study refers to mental disorders and your counter-argument against that refers to suicide.

Those are two separate things.

Taking the part you felt Keith excluded into consideration, the report is the same. Black, self-identified gays between 18-59 have less mental disorders than whites.

If you have evidence to refute that, then you will have disproven Columbia's findings and Keiths reporting.

We're talking mental disorders, not just suicide.

Liquid Fonts
October 4 2007, 4:46PM

I'm buying some of it but I do question the logic behind the social link to mental illness theory as oppose to a combination of the social and biological factors. and they haven't defined/qualified mental illness in this link provided. Some folks work a few extra hours and need to take a "mental health day" while others can't work at all.
Anyway..

Black gays and lesbians have an opportunity to do more to create a level playing field for
LGBTQ experience as a whole in comparison to str8s who I believe really do enjoy much more diversity within their relations with other str8s.

Focusing soley on the limitations of racism in the gay community can't be THE answer.

Karmatic
October 4 2007, 4:48PM

Well I did read the entire article and I still agree with B-Boy..Unless one is willing to engage in semantics, all you can take away from this article is the misleading notion that Blacks are coping far better than their white counterparts...I think the study is inconclusive, and not far reaching enough to tell the full story.

Kenneth Winfrey
October 4 2007, 4:52PM

In further defense of the study, it was funded by the National Institute of Mental Health. The NIH has high enough standards that I can trust the results of this study.

I'd like to see if they would be willing to fund my investigation. I would like to analyze the persistent resistance among us to the notion that we are capable and powerful people, and that our heritage does not have to be all doom and gloom.

Why are some of us so inclined to reject evidence that shows the inherent strengths of people of color?

Darrow
October 4 2007, 4:58PM

I'd love to see the study. I'm not sure I understand the findings. Did the study find that Black gays and lesbians have fewer mental disorders or did it find that Black gays and lesbians were less often diagnosed with a mental disorder? There's definitely a difference. And what does it mean to say we have fewer disorders? Less isn't necessarily better. Are there trends in which ones we get diagnosed with? What is the severity of the disorders? Are we talking Axis I diagnoses? Which ones? Are we getting treatment? Anyways, I hope I get to see the study. Interesting stuff.

I do think it's a stretch to conclude we are "ok", but I guess it rhymed with "gay".

DaBaddest2
October 4 2007, 5:05PM

Who cares....!

Derrick from Philly
October 4 2007, 5:18PM

I have to agree with BLUE, "...how many of them were totally out?"
Did they take into consideration all these same gender fuckin' men who think they're on the DL?

Oh, I feel that ol' saying coming on, "if you can't say anything nice then don't say nothing..."

I'm sorry, I want to hear positive news about black gay people, but...well...good thing they didn't come down here to Philly to study these evil "children" --evil 'cause they can't make it to DL status.

Maybe they only studied black lesbians.

ron
October 4 2007, 5:34PM

I'd like to see the actual raw data from this study. It seems shaky but follows the belief I always had about why suicide rates are lower amongst blacks than they are whites regardless of sexual orientation. Basically, black people have to struggle with much more and I believe are mentally tougher to deal with things. Nothing really different here. The suicide attempts are higher because of the cultural taboo of homosexuality in black and latino cultures. I don't know many black and latino families that are accepting of it. Thank god mine was. But, in the ones I do, I tend to find that class has a lot to do with it. I find that most of your lower income blacks and latinos are less tolerant of homosexuality (just from my experience) than your middle and upper class blacks and latinos; mainly because of exposure to other cultures through careers and travel, as well as being more educated.

I also think there are many people who associate suicide with having some kind of mental health disorder. There tends t

B.i.B.i
October 4 2007, 6:01PM

Well, we are always going to have haters in our OWN group, but its okay Keith, I personally understood what you are trying to say. It made sense.

Midwestguy
October 4 2007, 6:13PM

My goodness, it is a study. The results of which are contained in the actual report. Keith didn't do the research.

I'm going out on a limb and suggest that self-identified gays in the study were those who identified themselves as gay, not DL. They probably used whatever variable they use to determine all other studies.

For example, studies show that HIV in black women is rising faster than others in the population. That's probably based on women who were diagnosed as HIV positive.

Recent research suggests that obesity, not wasting, is the main concern for HIV patients. They used 663 people as the test.

Hillary Clinton leads in the poll by 33 pts. The sample was taken from 1,114 adults.

More black men in jail than college. They sampled 18-55+ yr olds.

Studies have always been debatable and this is no different.

But, If there is the slightest truth to blacks gays being less likely to suffer from mental disorders, then I can dig it.

B-Boy
October 4 2007, 6:22PM

Sorry Boykin - let me clarify (your blog only allows a certain number of words to be posted). I'm not arguing that you didn't include the reference regarding suicides - I read that. I posted it as being from the original article, and was trying to point out that you did not include to comment on that finding relative to a myopic opinion that black gays are living mentally rosey lives relative to whites or latinos.

Midwest Guy - this study is also too small to be conclusive to the sweeping conclusions that Boykin is coming to in his "article". New York is not the United States. 388 people living in New York, a city that is relatively safer to be gay in comparison to Hicksville West Virginia, is not reflective of the national experience. White gays do not grow up without prejudice. 388 people living in New York city does not even come close to providing evidence of Boykin's conclusions.

cmoney
October 4 2007, 7:14PM

How come all the guys I meet are crazy as hell? I can see how facing racial discrimination can better prepare one to deal with homophobia. But damn! I meet all the whackos. At least this study lets me know there are some stable people out there--somewhere.

MidwestGuy
October 4 2007, 7:39PM

B-Boy, do you no longer want to read lol? It seems as if you just want to prove Keith wrong or (per you) as a source for illegitimate news.

Please refer to any of the studies posted above and you will also see that the samples seem too small to the draw the sweeping conclusions we all have re: them.

Don't want to start an ongoing debate over the words/intents of someone neither us know (well at least I don't). But, what sweeping generalization did Keith draw?

I've read it again and don't see it.

I hope you're not referring to the statement about white gay men and prejudice. Was it the casual use of the intransitive verb there?

From my reading, I got that the results, although debatable, were encouraging.

To believe or not believe, that is the question.

It's ok to believe in good things.

Generalizations?

brucito
October 4 2007, 9:12PM

It is very obvious that many of you who commented are college educated. It is also said that damn near every article on this site is about nothing else but RACE. I was black when I woke up this morning and will be black when I go to bed tonight. Is it possible things can turn a little more to the credit crunch or this very over valued stock market? Surely Keith knows a queen or two who can make a few comments to get an article about these type of topics on one of the pages on this site. This is really sounding like a site for a gay Jessie Jackson or Rev. Al wannabe to practice on.

Karmatic
October 4 2007, 9:20PM

The intellectual masturbation continues..**sighs**

Why can't someone disagree with Mr. Boykin or Kenneth Winfrey without some "fanboy"
coming out with some sort of attack or critical critique of their comments?...Most of the dissenting comments about the article were spawned by the title of the article IMO ("Black,Gay and OK")..After reading the article most of us came to totally different conclusions about what the study actually outlined...We (Black Men) were not
"Black Gay and OK" -The title of the entry seemed totally opposite from it's contents..

I don't mine lively discussions at all, in fact I find them informative..But I do hate it when people want to control what others think.

indastix
October 4 2007, 9:41PM

I don't put much stock myself into this article until i see the actual study, despite the small numbers. How the researchers determined if subjects had a mental disorder is extremely key and can completely make the findings invalid or suspect. If subjects were asked "are you currently seeing a mental health professional for anything, and what is your diagnosis?", this is problematic. This would mean that the results are more indicative of an access issue (mind you, we already know Blacks tend to access the health care system less often and this would be dependent on whether they see psych professionals at all). If the researchers had psychologists/psychiatrists provide diagnostic studies on all subjects to determine whether there was a mental disorder, then this would be a useful study. Regardless, this indicates a major problem for mental health professionals; this means that we are much less likely to be able to reach those who may attempt suicide because they may never present with mood disorders.

Darnell
October 4 2007, 10:03PM

Small sample, yes, wrong outcome, not really. When the US government wants to prove a point, they do. One prime example of a "large" base to get stats on was the one about black men in jail mentioned on another thread on this site. They used a HUGE sample number, that included black men from 18-55 or something like that, to show, that there were more black men in jail than college. Just how many 55 year old men are in college, and, yet, the same #s for whites and others were the age group 18-25 for the survey.

My point being, large numbers do not correlate a "right" finding, just as a small one a wrong one. For, what the mission of the survey was, it seems to be spot on. But, as with any survey, some will dispute it, when it does not add up to the point of view they have.

Peace.

indastix
October 4 2007, 10:12PM

All studies have inherent flaws/biases. You have to recognize them to understand how useful that study is.

I also wanted to clarify an earlier statement, because it really makes Blacks who attempt suicide feel more isolated.

Blacks in fact in recent years have nearly the same rate of suicide as whites; we can no longer say that Blacks commit suicide less. In fact, there appears that Caribbean Black men may (this is debatable) have HIGHER rates of suicide than whites. So it is not unreasonable (and even surprising) that younger LGBT blacks have higher suicide rates because the suicide rate in black youth in general has been skyrocketing.

Just don't want people to walk away thinking that suicide is a white problem.

tony
October 4 2007, 10:25PM

here here for critical dialogue! without name calling that is...

nhlanhla-South Africa
October 5 2007, 3:07AM

It would be interesting to find out how they sampled the black LGBT community and how they asked the questions to which various intepretations could arise: For instance, if visits to a therapist constituted a signal to mental disorder in Meyer's study, then that's what his study will reflect. 'Mad by the visits'. I dont know about the US, but where I am, due to culture and class, frivolous and expensive mental therapy visits are not the norm for poorer blacks, but that never translates to 'therapy is not needed', which Meyer's study may or not have been able to unearth. Also living and coping with a disease is not being disease free. I am skeptical, also because it's very hard in sexual and drugs research to get normally distrubted samples, of especially hidden Black Gay communities. Winfrey asks the right question: 'what is the measure of an acceptable quality of life in NYC, and who has it?' So, why wont Boykin post Meyer's research report or link on this site?

nhlanhla-South Afrika
October 5 2007, 3:19AM

It is saying, oh look 'black people seem to be coping with slavery and genocide but white people are not coping with traffic!'. That's not good-news for me.

MidwestGuy
October 5 2007, 6:58AM

Karmatic, I don't think you're in a position to dictate what people can and can't critique on this board--neither am I.

I asked for evidence to support the claim b-boy initially made refuting this study and it's accuracy. There is none.

I asked exactly what are the sweeping generalizations b-boy think's he made. I don't see them.

Based on the findings in this story re: mental health, black men are GAY AND OK. That's it.

If you took that as reflecting the overall state of black gay males, then it is you who expanded the subject further than what this study concluded.

It would be you who drew an unreasonable conclusion from points neither Keith, nor the study, ever made.

It shouldn't be against .com ethics to point that out.

Is it wrong to post good news about black gays when you see it w/out that being criticized?

Why would we want to hear only bad, discouraging news? IMO that's very weird.

Brucito, try www.opinionjournal.com. Lot's of credit/stock info there. :)

Derrick from Philly
October 5 2007, 10:02AM

"...identified themselves as gay, not DL"

That's just the point. How representative of the black homosexual population was the study? So many black homosexuals, even very educated ones, do not identify themselves as gay. And I aint out on the limb there; a lot of black folks who are "in the life" do not participate in "gay" anything, let alone a scientific study in which they must say, "I'm gay."

Those of us who are critical of the study are not being negative about black homosexual people, we just have questions about the nature and validity of the study itself.

I agree with cmoney when it comes to personal experience. I know black gay folks up in New York who could probably pass any test for mental health, but I know them bitches are as crazy as any white bitch.

MidwestGuy
October 5 2007, 12:57PM

Dphil, other than one party yeeears ago, I've never participated in a gay anything. Not a parade, pride, club etc. I'm not "out" and don't live the "life." Yet, I identify myself as gay.

So I don't know how to measure self-identification vs. social-identification re: this study.

This sounds like one of those "what does it mean to be black" conversations.

What it boils down too is that people are questioning whether there are less black gays who suffer from mental disorders.

I don't understand the need for questioning possible good news about black gays. But, I don't have to understand it. lol

David
October 5 2007, 1:07PM

This study was questioning a specific group of people, people who are already SELF-IDENTIFIED as Gay, Lesbian or Bi-sexual to determine if race makes a difference in the lives of people who already IDENTIFY THEMSELVES as Gay, Lesbian or Bi-sexual.
The results according to the article above, were not what the researchers had expected. THIS IS GOOD NEWS.
Most of the other men I know are intelligent, well adjusted men mostly forty or older who have gone through the drama and the trauma and are wiser for it.
To tell the truth I may be the craziest person I know (although a few others are close.)

B-Boy
October 5 2007, 1:19PM

Midwest Guy: You said, "I asked for evidence to support the claim b-boy initially made refuting this study and it's accuracy. There is none."

To the contrary, my friend - there is plenty. But I am not here to try to prove anything, because I am not taking a personal position on what is already established research findings that are contrary to Boykin's ONE study he is hanging onto. What you are failing to recognize is that repeatedly Boykin uses any crumb of information he can find to support his myopic and often misinformed perspectives.

It's just like the pied piper - leading with a style that may look like objective journalism, but in fact is "blog style personal opinion" and nothing more. I take him with a grain of salt.

Go ahead - knock yourself out. Type "Black, gay, emotional disorder" into Google and start reading.

MidwestGuy
October 5 2007, 2:22PM

B-Boy, thanks for finally coming out the closet. You just have a problem w/Keith. That's what all this is about.

YOU said that Keith's was wrong to draw a conclusion based on the study.

YOU said that there was ample info out there to refute these findings. Since YOU said it, then YOU provide us w/the information.

YOU talked about the lack of consideration of high suicide rates when both Keith and the study addressed it.

It was YOU who wrongly assumed Keith said that white gays don't face prejudice. Hence the intransitive verb reference from me.

This is KEITH'S personal blog, not a front page editorial. Even then, there is a such thing as "op-ed"

Don't simply rely on anyone's personal blog as a source of objectivity.

Sometimes you'll find it, sometimes you won't.

Why browse the personal blog of someone you hold in such low regard?

It's like gays going to an anti-gay rally and then complain about the rhetoric.

Go ahead-google counterintuitive and start reading.

Billy
October 5 2007, 2:26PM

Amen Kenneth!!!!!

Kenneth Winfrey
October 5 2007, 2:32PM

Ah, B-Boy, so your mission has little (if nothing), in fact, to do with the article here. It has to do with your perceptions of Keith, in general. Thus, if you are taking "him with a grain of salt," we might wonder why you have 4 post here on this topic or blog with which you have "taken with a grain of salt..."

This is a blog (with his name), not a newspaper (which are also often biased, slanted and myopic). I can't see why his opinions, biases, and myopias (which we all have) wouldn't be expressed here.

Pure objectivity is a philosphical concept of which most humans aren't capable. We all see the world from our own positions, backgrounds and interests. If the results of the study aren't meaningful to you, that's your "truth"--you've made that clear.

I choose to believe in the study because it is more true for me than not. I'm sure those who have a different experience will not believe that you can be happy, gay (or SGL) and Black. IMO that's really the point of this article...

Karmatic
October 5 2007, 4:54PM

Is this Communist China? geez...

Where did any of you read that B-Boy has a problem with Mr. Boykin?
If you disagree with an article wrtten by Keith or praised by him, then I assume you have a personal vendetta against Keith Boykin right?.

Excuse me if you guys want to come to a site each and every day just to feel good about the
myopic beliefs you already hold about life.. I understand that this is a blog, but why leave each article open to comments if you only wish to foster views that are parallel to your own....Based on my experiences in life, people who wish to pounce upon other people's views, have insecurities and fragile beliefs themselves.

B-Boy has made his views known with class and has provided the facts to support his views.
Now MidwestGuy (and others) want to make B-boy's dissent of the article about Keith rather than the article itself..

You all should be ashamed of yourselves!

B-Boy
October 5 2007, 5:44PM

You hit the nail on the head, Karmatic. Honestly - this is a mean-spirited blog where the readers expect dogmatic loyalty to the blogger, regardless if his methods are accurate or not. Boykin's style is one of advising and impling empirical data, rather than stating this is his own opinion. This specific article is titled "Black Gay and OK." The study is presented by Boykin as an absolute, rather than being relative to many other studies that show contrary information. Boykin has cache as a "black gay voice", and I would expect more care and responsibility to what he is advising his readers. But if he's going to put it out there, he's going to get called out on it too. It should be expected.

I don't know what the need for personal attacks is, and I don't really care. What I do know is that the culture of this blog fosters an environment for its readers to take liberties to attack each other. Time to move on - you all can have your cat fight.

cward
October 5 2007, 6:12PM

People tend to take greater efforts to be offensive in the invisible world of the internet. Also people get to hide behind the computer and make comments that they would not normally face to face. It is something that I have observed and it is really sad and does not inspire any dialog. I too have watched the conversations on this website and countless others get downright ridiculous; nevertheless I do appreciate the chance to have a forum.

It is a balancing act as I will not try to make an invisible person see my point of view. Some people like the outward display of frustration that others show towards them as it gives them a level of power and control; that they do not have in their personal lives.

MLee
October 5 2007, 6:23PM

MidwestGuy, I find myself agreeing with you more and more. That is scary! I am not trying to bash anyone, but I guess a person has to be educated to fully understand how scientific studies are taking; the precautions put in place; and how to interpret the results. Part of interpreting the results is knowing whether or not the study was done by a reputable institution. In this study, I know that the institution is reputable.

MidwestGuy
October 5 2007, 6:48PM

Mlee, thanks and that's the main point. Look at the study for what it is. It wasn't done by hip-hop weekly. It's going to be reported in the National Journal of Public Health.

It's fine to have a discussion on the findings (as Keith pointed out in the last paragraph). But to simply dispute it just because and offer absolutely NO evidence to counter it is ridiculous.

This is a message board. This was a study. If there is evidence contrary to it, then do us all a favor and post it. That's not being mean-spirited.

B-boy has the nerve to question personal attacks. Yet, in ALL of his posts, he has nothing positive to say about Keith nor his blog. What a complete contradiction. Don't NOW become a victim.

This is beyond disagreeing w/Keith's point of view. It is a dishonest slap to suggest that somehow Keith (or anyone else) should not welcome and report potentially good news about black gays.

That's the issue, not Keith's dogma or people being unable to disagree w/him.

Look at the study!

chad
October 5 2007, 7:11PM

Black students are now attacking other black kids with "KKK" and swastikas. Lawd have mercy,

Liquid Fonts
October 5 2007, 7:36PM

LOL Karmatic, since u took it there...

Im sure B-Boy is a good person but he got "caught up" when his comments failed the accuracy test in at least ONE CRITICAL instance and he failed to disclose simple info that supports his ideas.

He chose to kick up dust at the expense of sound information . [caugh]

If im not mistaken, blog owners can delete any comment anytime they wish and B-Boys is still circulating.

Given that, it could be argued that B-Boy has ample access to free speech on this site but draws critcism because he used it poorly.

EQUIVOCATE: to use ambiguous or unclear expressions, usually to avoid commitment or in order to mislead; prevaricate or hedge: When asked directly for his position on disarmament, the candidate only equivocated.

~ http://www.dictionary.com

brucito
October 5 2007, 9:35PM

Keep in mind that you never know who it is that is coming to the defense of this blogger. It might even be the blogger himself using an alias. I can't help but suspect that is the case on many of the articles that have been critized here of late. A name and email address is all that is required to get the comment in. You go figure from there.

J
October 5 2007, 11:42PM

Some of us are so warped by the notion of white supremacy.

We could go on all day about the white men and women who've brutally attacked or murdered black and white gays, or the downlow white men and women, or the white gays who spend their lives getting high to seperate themselves from their sexual acts, or the effing (white)EX-GAY MOVEMENT. They have more money, not more peace.

Tod
October 6 2007, 7:41AM

I agree with some of the comments above. It seems that this study is a lot more complex than the results would lead one to believe.

Is it not possible that black people are more comfortable in the closet and more likely to be there? Are black men better at compartmentalizing their lives, giving them more happiness and satisfaction in a lifestyle that a white person may share but may be more conflicted about (Just look at the DL Chronicles and The Closet shows that are advertised here. The closet seems to be glorified and promoted in the African-American community much more than in the white community). Are black people just less likely to admit to mental and/or psychological problems.

Before we jump to conclusions that this study is good news, I think we need to think more, and research more, to find out what this study really tells us.

When I see a study that shows OUT and PROUD gay black people are better off, THEN I'll celebrate.

Mighty Real
October 6 2007, 6:43PM

Even before this study came out, I personally felt that white gays where more likely to have mental disorders. Don't get me wrong I like white guys and blah blah but from my experience, white gays are just more twisted. sorry, but they are. Some of it has to go back to the whole "white male but not" status that white gays have. They know that if not for the "gay" they could enjoy all their white privileges, which is why many stay closeted.
Then many of them has this "white women" mindset where they think they are, in fact, women. And lastly, (and maybe most importantly) white gays age horribly. By 35 they are pretty much over. So, they do have a lot to deal with so it's no wonder they are mental. It might be fun to be a white gay when they are young and pretty, but baby, when they get older they turn into nutjobs. seriously, in the long run it's waaaay better to be black and gay.

nhlanhla-south Africa
October 7 2007, 11:11AM

One bright woman always asked: why if economists are so bright they aint rich?

My question for me would be: why if black gay men are more stable, that does not readily translate into: a) less hiv infections, more stable relationships (stats?), less MISuse of alcohol (stats?), a higher real income, higher levels of education, etc. versus comparable groups.

What really is an accurate DEFINITION of mental health?

The dangers from similar reseach findings is that they often lead to vast diversions of public resources from certain groups, whose vulnerability is hard to quantify, especially based on research that may be pursuing insignificant or wrong questions, let alone representative. The study may end up contributing further to the bad economic, health and mental state of black gay men in general. So just because it concludes that black is better than white, is NO reason to swallow blindly. it may be poison.

Merridick
October 7 2007, 12:07PM

cosign nhlanhla

I seem to remember articles on here talking about the gay porn industry using black homeless and often vulnerable men sometimes HIV+ in there shoots? Or Reverend Irene Monroe's article that said 42 percent of the country's homeless youth identifies as LGBTQ, and approximately 90 percent within this group comprise of African American and Latino youth.

I'm sure they aren't getting adequate health care either. Then there is point that POC are less likely to seek help for mental disorders as well. And usually when there's suicide attempts, depression or some other mental disorder may be there and they may not be acknowledging it.

indastix
October 7 2007, 1:19PM

nhlanhla and Merridick gave some really good points. I agree with them 100 percent.

We don't even have access to the study yet. All we have is a copy of the press release that the authors released regarding the way they interpreted the results. We won't even see the study until November.

They give whole classes on reading these studies. It is irrelevant whether it came from Harvard, Yale, Columbia, or whatever. There have been plenty of sham studies that have come from "reputable institutions". You have to read the study for yourself. If you wanted to find research about mental health, don't you think you would go to a psychology or psychiatry journal? So it's questionable that this article didn't make it into one these. Touting the fact that it was in the Journal of Public Health is therefore not useful.

shanna
October 7 2007, 7:26PM

I think there are some good points and some rather biased ones here. I agree that the study is questionable just in the fact that most people would argue that the simple fact that there are lots of people both Black and White who will not acknowledge their sexual orientation and also that there are lots of Black people who won't examine their mental health.

But I personally feel that it makes no sense to personally attack Keith. He put up information about an interesting study and even acknowledged that it is a study that would probably be reviewed and scrutinized.

Also, as has been stated, this is a personal blog. It's 95% opinion. The articles are not fully researched reports on the state of America, they are often just personal thoughts on current issues. What are you looking for exactly? That's what I come here for, not traditional news.

nhlanhla- south africa
October 8 2007, 5:31AM

Personally, I am not attacking Keith. I believe he has good intentions.

I am concerned about and hate pseudo-research masquerading as statistical science, in which some silly academics engage often to influence policy to their own ends. What is the SOCIAL SIGNIFICANCE of black gay men being better than whites in some other definition of mental health. So if black gay men are healthier in that arbitrary measure, how does that translate into a better quality of life. It probably doesn't, because the definitions are wrong to start with. Hence the findings shouldn't be a surprise. Social significance, not statistical significance, should be motivation and reason to conduct any research. Besides the research itself would have to be adequately representative before its results are generalised. Otherwise it must stay confined in NYC's self-identified black gays, whatever that is, & at Colombia library. Any case it's useful to know what silly studies exist, to question them in time. That's no personal attack

For Your Consideration
October 8 2007, 8:06PM

Plus you know white gays are just seething 'cause they hate the fact that gays of color have any advantage over them.

ps. I cosign with the aging thing too.

KJ
October 8 2007, 8:23PM

I've always been impressed (and sometimes in awe) with the strength of the black sgl community. Although we have our issues, I think in the minds of most brother's and sister's, coping with the gay or sgl issue doesn't compare with coping with racism. The study has it limitations and is bias regionally. Also, the sample is so small. However if it can be duplicated it might prove more conclusive.

Sankofa in Baltimore
October 9 2007, 10:14AM

Columbia's findings do strike me as counterintuitive, though it does seem consistent with other studies that find lower overall rates of mental health conditions in the larger black community. But it's worth keeping two thoughts in mind: (1) these studies (and the clinical definitions used to define various mental health conditions) do not adequately capture the mental effect of racism (on blacks or whites); (2) the mental effect of racism has been ignored or refuted by white-dominated science since slavery; and (3) the physiological effects of racism-induced stress (such its effect on hypertension) is now, slowly but surely, being identified by scientists.

I'd love to see a study that checks the hypertension rates of our LGBT sisters and brothers. I'd speculate that it would contradict the Columbia study.

BM
November 27 2007, 9:27PM

I just got through from watching Noah's Arc. ALL episodes. I have come to the conclusion that I have a problem. You see, I am a gay black man who have been dating only white men. I look in the mirror and I see a very handsome black gay man but when I've looked at my lovers, the were 99.9% white or were latino/white. Since my first boyfriend who was black died, I couldn't date black men. I have tried to post on Gay Ebony Dating in order to meet available black men but I haven't had any luck. I realize that this has nothing to do with the topic but after seeing Noah's Arc, it has restored my hope that I will meet a fine, competent black man. I want to be a part of the black gay community but I don't know how or where to begin. I live in the LA area and I have no isea of where to go. I wish that I had a group of gay, black friends who I could call and hand out with and to also find a lover( I hate the term "partner," it sounds like something out of a Mary Poppins movie. ) Seriously though, I need help with this

John
December 6 2007, 11:16AM

The guy who said that many black gay men have made the closet a place of comfort is very right.

They have learned to live their lives in compartments, which may or may not be harmful.