The Repackaging of Clarence Thomas

bubba
October 2 2007, 12:22PM

His votes during his tenure as a member of the court are the real nitty gritty of this matter. I truly believe he thinks equality is about stripping away all forms of government assistance. Unfortunately, the disillusionment he had with the Catholic church during his formative years should have informed his views of American society. This country says one thing on paper and then treats citizens of color differently in practice. How could he of all people not realize how protections or loopholes in the law take on a life of their own?

Derrick from PHilly
October 2 2007, 12:28PM

As a black liberal Democrat, I had no trouble hating Clarence Thomas once I discovered his political beliefs and philosophy. But as a black gay who is often at odds with the larger black community on social issues, I have had emotional rants-- saying things about black folks that could easily come out the mouth of some snooty racist white bitch. So, I had to ask myself, "bitch, if you sometimes hold black folk in such contempt for their right-wing views on social issues, how can you criticize Thomas for his behavior due to his contempt for the liberal black political establishment? The answer is: taking destructive action, and working with white racists to hurt black folks. My bitterness has never stopped me from calling a racist white spade a racist white spade. Thomas, just like Alan Keyes, sides with people who
practice racism & discrimination.

Clarence Thomas has contempt for his grand-father. Anita Hill was a conservative, why would she lie?

Troy
October 2 2007, 12:49PM

he's got a book out and needs another summer place, c'mon be nice give ole judge angry some

malik
October 2 2007, 12:53PM

Clarence "Self-Loathing Oreo" Thomas is one of many black people in the world who simply hate not only themselves but also other black people...Many people who work with the Supreme Court say he is very nice to the white people who call him Clarence not "Justice Thomas" and also he is very couteous, nervous and soft spoken around white people but around black people he is very discourteous, curt and loud.

Unfortunately, Black people like Clarence Thomas are a dime a dozen ...he is definitely one of many blacks who sit back with his "white so-called friends" telling them how dislikes black women...Uncle Tom is just disgusting...he is just a "self-loating black oreo bastard with color issues" who needs white people's approval at any cost to give himself some value...but sadly he is not the only one, there are so many black faous people working three jobs to take care of poor white trash that would not give them the time of day if they didn't have any money...

Jerry
October 2 2007, 1:15PM

Clarence Thomas makes me ashamed to be related to Phyllis Berry Myers.

'dre
October 2 2007, 1:25PM

You've got it right Keith, it was a FLUFF piece that Paris Hilton could have done, and I fired off a letter to CBS about it. Kraft did not ask ONE question that wasn't prescreened. And, I would love to know why he, Thomas hates being black, even though he denies it, and why he is the most conservative "judge" to sit on the so called Supreme Court since the 1930's?

And, the part that was both funny and showed how he is a joke was the white woman part, Gramps told him not to even look at one, but, once he got the chance, he started laying up with one, and bashing every black woman he could find. Maybe he should have got a gig as a rapper, since, his use of affirmative action that he loathes, showed, not all can get in with their own brains and his lack of real knowledge about the law shows up in every case. And, its laughable about how "poor' he was and now, he has the same disdain for the poor that the whites had for his people.

He's just despicable, self hating chump.

JC
October 2 2007, 1:27PM

I have no trouble disliking self-loathing black people like the following:

Clarence Thomas
OJ Simpson
Michael Jackson
Armstrong Williams
and
Donna Brazile....

The point of the matter is:
Clarence Thomas, Armstrong Williams, Donna Brazile and many other blacks need to realize that whenever something goes down your asses will be just like the Jena Six, OJ Simpson, Michael Jackson and Michael Vick...stop being self-loathing dumb black people and look in the mirror and ask yourselves some tough questions.

[This comment has been edited by the moderator. Unless it's relevant to the topic, please avoid comments about other individuals' sexual practices and behavior. Thank you.]

'dre
October 2 2007, 2:28PM

And, the other joke he told in that FLUFF show, was he isn't a "black" man, he sees himself as just a "man," which shows just how delusional he really is.

Maybe he should try to hail a cab in a major city and see just non-black he is, get in an elevator filled with white women and see how many clutch thier handbags tighter, this "man" really needs therapy for all his anger and anger.

MidwestGuy
October 2 2007, 2:45PM

Lord knows many blacks were outraged over O'Reilly's comments.

But,

Just look at the host of racial/sexist/hateful epithets (re: this story) thrown around on this board and others across the country

And gays were outraged by faggot?

Really?

I guess insults are ok depending on who's saying them.

Clarence pulled the race card back then. But now he's a victim?

He looks down on his Yale Law degree because due to affirmative action, he didn't think it measured up to his white classmates?

He's a victim now?

He has consistently voted against the equality of those who look just like him?

He thinks it's because he doesn't wear his "Blackness" on his shoulder?

Other than his color is there any identifiable "black traits" of his.

How are his associations with other blacks?

I guess he does not go out of his way to provide job opportunities for blacks because he sees it as wrong?

Clarence Thomas, I must shake my head.

He reminds me of an older Eric Motley.

B-Boy
October 2 2007, 2:57PM

Funny that Boykin gives O'Reilly a pass, but not Thomas.

Hmm...

YS
October 2 2007, 3:18PM

what are "interests of black America"?
besides exposing and eradicating racism...

say, are interests of a singe Wall Street broker the same as those of a mill worker with 3 kids?

and if these interests do not coincide, one of them is a traitor to his race?

Derrick from Philly
October 2 2007, 3:36PM

It isn't just Thomas' voting record on the Court. His work against affirmative action and against the gains of the Civil Rights Movement go back to the 1970s--long before black Republicans could articulate why they reject liberal Democratic policies. I think he'd even undo the Voting Rights Act if he could.

He's the kind of black man who's probably resented black women all his adult life. Some black boys get rejected by black girls in highschool/college, and blame it on their own dark skin color & physical features. They never admit that the black girls they tried to date were the most narrow-minded, sometimes the shallow GIRLS--not young women. They never gave intelligent black women a chance. They use that "mistreatment" to justify their lust for white women. So, they become haters of their own people.

And don't y'all "read" me with, "look who's talkin', Miss Towleroad herself." I've never tasted a white dingdong in my life...not yet.

Ostend Street
October 2 2007, 4:19PM

This man would be a psychiatrists' dream. Hates himself, hates his race, hates light skinned blacks, hates black women, embittered, feels victimized, blameless, and vengeful. Gee, all the ingredients for a healthy, well adjusted Supreme Court Judge. Not just any old garden variety judge, but one who will impact the lives of his own people for years to come. Truly, our democratic system is at work.

MidwestGuy
October 2 2007, 4:24PM

What are the interests of black America?

Well if you had to ask that question, I don't think it necessary to explain because you probably wouldn't get it.

In the interest of "fairness" lets also ask what are the interests of:

Gays
Catholics
Evangelicals
Women
Men
Democrats
Republicans
Anti-abortionists
Pro-abortionists
etc?

If you can't point to the "interests" of either of those, then as I said, you wouldn't get it.

B-boy, are you really comparing a radio/tv commentator to a Supreme Court Justice?

You do realize that one affects the law of the land right?

Karmatic
October 2 2007, 4:25PM

Have any of you read the "book"? If not, then why bash Justice Thomas for his views when you have no context in which to judge?

While my views are conservative, I do not believe in Justice Thomas's ability to carry the "note" of the Black Conservative...Justice Thomas is simply the messenger not the Message.

brian
October 2 2007, 4:28PM

Thurgood Marshall is probably weeping to know that his seat is now occupied by someone of Thomas' ilk.
Thomas declares his contempt for the treatment he received at the hands of 'lighter' skinned blacks while growing up, but can't see the value of the contribution of his predecessor.
I'd stack up any opinion written by Marshall next to one of Thomas' any day.
Particularly as regards the intellectual, scholarly and well reasoned basis for that opinion.
One wonders how he would have dealt with an Adam Clayton Powell?

Jon Swift
October 2 2007, 6:29PM

Why is Clarence Thomas such an angry black man?

Whatnow?
October 2 2007, 6:42PM

Let me begin by saying that I'm aware that racism is alive and well in the United States. And because it is alive and well, we look for laws that provide us equal justice in the eyes of the law. I believe Justice Thomas is interpreting the Constitution of the United States to do just that...provide equal justice. To be seen as a MAN first and foremost, and therefore to be treated as one. One of the most famous lines in the speech by Rev. Martin Luther King is, "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character." Yet we want to have special rights because we are African Americans. I think our biggest fight should be for how our kids are being educated in public schools. How we are not getting out and voting out people who are not doing the jobs that we voted them in to do. I feel that the majority of our people do not want a handout but equal access to the dream & education is the key

mr.america
October 2 2007, 7:08PM

I have no problem with Clarence Thomas being who and what he is. The greater concern is for people that talk a good game and that is all it is. I cannot worry about what Clarence Thomas is going to do for me, I expect nothing, he has to hold what's best for him first. Does it shock you? It shouldn't he was this way before he was appointed supreme court justice.What I find interesting is that "people in glass houses......". How can Keith say white's should not worry about what Thomas can do to them, when his "down for the cause" persona is not much better.

curious887
October 2 2007, 7:22PM

Keith, I'm so glad you did this piece. I am approaching Thomas fatigue at this point because he's been in the news so much lately. However, I had been waiting to read something by you on the justice. Justice Thomas is the most powerful black man in America, and he has a chip on his shoulder. He is self-loathing and bitter. It pains me that he replaced Justice Marshall on the Court. We are, however, stuck with this man for what promises to be a long time.

mr.america
October 2 2007, 8:12PM

I just read the article again and i missed something valid. It says that Clarence Thomas voted against a recount in Florida for the 2000 election. I pride myself on being someone that has voted for the democratic party extensively, my comment to this is F!@# Gore. Gore could not win his own home state of Tennessee. If your own state does not want you, why should america have you. You win Tennessee you win the election, hands down. NOOOOO you wanted to distance yourself from the Clinton affiliation, hell Clinton won Tennessee twice.

Alice Jo
October 2 2007, 8:22PM

The issue is the interview he was doing while hawking a book, and who would waste a penny on that nonsense? I wouldn't light it with a free match. He has a right to hate blacks and being black, but, all I have to say, is don't say you were "lynched" high tech or not to get this lucrative gig based on affirmative action, and, then turn around and say there is no racism and blacks should get over it. And, if you are a black who has been victimized, don't come or even think about getting justice from his fellow "conservatives" on that court.

And, for the record, most black people are "conservative", he isn't the first, and not the last, what most don't like is the racial injustice that abounds in this so called democracy. Asking for fairness shouldn't be such a big deal. That's the main gripe I have with black neo-cons, they seem to all live in this color free world where everyone is treated on whom they are and not the color of their skin, where in this country is that place? Other than their own heads.

MidwestGuy
October 2 2007, 8:34PM

Mr. America, Interesting point.

I wonder do you realize that in the same Constitution that you mention "equal justice," black people had to have an amendment added to 'unenslave' them?

I agree with equal justice for all that the constitution is supposed to provide. But, Blacks were not in mind at its inception.

Since then, the decendents of the people who wrote it have intepreted and made other laws.

The constitution does not specifically provide for gay marriage. There are 'constitutional' laws being passed against it--as well as civil unions.

Reasonable people assume that it's unfair to deny gays rights simply because of a moral judgment against it.

Is equal justice only applicable in cases when morality (personal judgment) isn't involved?

No, wait!

Genarlow Wilson and Mychael Bell were treated "equally under the law" right?

You know, the constitution, written and intepreted by...

brucito
October 2 2007, 9:15PM

JC that was a very interesting list you sent in. How could you have forgotten about that embarrassment named Alan Keyes? Remember the one who ran for president and was arrested (and also screaming the triumphs of Martin Luther King while being handcuffed) when he tried to crash a debate the rebublicans were holding in Atlanta in 1996? I personally think Keith should have treated Ol' uncle Tom here exactly like he did George Bush on this site. Remember people there is no such thing as bad publicity when you are selling something.

MidwestGuy
October 2 2007, 9:15PM

Sorry, that should've been addressed to 'whatnow'

cmoney
October 2 2007, 9:59PM

He's really a Sambo, not an Uncle Tom. Uncle Tom was actually a good person in a bad circumstance. A tragic character. Sambo, on the otherhand was a despicable, pathetic character who took every opportunity to run to the massah and beat up on the other slaves to curry favor with the Whites who despised him. Clarence Thomas is a despicable piece of shit. I don't need to read his book to know tht. I can read his opinions. Like the one where he felt that a beating a handcuffed prisoner received from prison guards that resulted in a broken jaw did not violate the 8th Amendment prohibition on cruel and unusual punishment. The man is truly insane, ignorant and mentally ill. He is a disgrace to the Supreme Court and to every lawyer and judge, Black or otherwise. The only other worse affirmative action graduate of Yale was George W. Bush. He got in on a rich White legacy quota. Look at the damage he's done!

LaRufus
October 2 2007, 10:17PM

Clarence, boo, you have got it made, white woman, life time guvment job with no job evaluations, don't have to deal with those uppity, high yellow blacks you despise, but, one question, just where are you not a black first, man man second on this planet?

Could someone tell me where this place is?????

Anyone tell me that even with hard work, you still have 5 strikes against you in this country for being a black man? And, where is this utopia that racism has been eradicated in since your "high tech lynching?"

This is one, sad, bitter man, who really needs Dr Phil and not Steve Croft's to talk to.

Come on and deal with some REAL black people who are trying to make a dollar out of .15 cents and 80 hours a week of work, then get back to me on why you hate them.

@midwest, I guess Clarence does not know his history, the founding pappy's didn't even consider him or his ancestors human, let alone a man, so, thier Constituation to what they intended is a joke he is upholding and shows he is incompeten

edvince
October 3 2007, 7:32AM

True, perhaps to many all of the anti-black issues raised concerning CThomas in this column. However let us and the black generations that come after us not forget, though US chattel slavery industry devasted our ancestors and generations after them and many to follow after us, CThomas is a BLACK MAN on the Surpreme Court of the USofA.

elg
October 3 2007, 8:11AM

I haven't read Clarence Thomas' book and I don't think I want to but several of you have commented about his hatred for "high yellow blacks" as if it happened (assuming it's true)for absolutely no reason. Once upon a time, before the late sixties when "black is beautiful" was hot for a minute, there was the long period of the "brown bag test". The disdain high yellow blacks had for dark skinned blacks was overt and you were made to feel less than, not just by whites but by blacks who were "lighter" than you. Blacks were obsessed with the skin color of other blacks (being called black before the 60s was the cruelest of insults). Every black person was described in terms of their complexion and hair texture (good hair vs. bad hair). If you were light you were considered "pretty" or at least presentable. If you were dark, you could just disappear. There was no such thing as a "beautiful" dark skinned black woman. Not making excuses for this flawed man, but who can say what toll this took on all of us.

gs
October 3 2007, 8:38AM

Good piece Keith. Definitely some food for thought regarding his hypocrisy.

Whatnow?
October 3 2007, 9:34AM

To respond to MidwestGuy…Yes, I am fully aware that there was an amendment to the Constitution to abolish slavery. It is because of the Constitution that it was eventually abolished. I think the Constitution is an awesome document. For a document that was written when it was, it has only had relatively a few amendments. And those amendments were for the betterment of ALL. I just think that amendments to the Constitution to benefit only a segment of the population are wrong.

As for Genarlow Wilson & Mycheal Bell those are city, county and state laws that are preventing them from getting their just day in court. This is why, as I mentioned earlier, that we as a people need to get out and exercise our right to vote. A right that I might mention was given to us by the Constitution. Being a gay man, I do not like for anyone to tell me who I can and cannot love or marry. Unfortunately, the right to marry is once again a state issue. (Continues below).

Ostend Street
October 3 2007, 9:50AM

This man is on the bench for life people. He will make decisions that will have a far reaching impact on black folk for many years to come. He was a perfect pawn for the most powerful in this country. So, what do we do about it? What can we do about it? As I said in a previous post. Black folk need a swift kick in the butt. Wake up people.

Luther
October 3 2007, 10:33AM

I hear you Ostend Street, he is on for life, and he his hell bent on making the lives of the average black and any other working person as horrible as he can under the guise of the law and what his "founding fathers" want, and don't even think about his ideas on gay rights. And, now with Roberts and Alitio who both seem to share his disdain for any black issue that comes before them, its gonna get a whole lot worse. The death spiral that Bush has in place for freedom and fairness in this country is gone, and, in a way, it will be a good thing to see China rise and give this country a run for its money, and its lame lies about fairness and equality under the law.

And, to the poster who wrote about blacks being "conservative" so true, they make it out as if every black person is a die hard liberal, black people are some of the most God fearing, conservative people in this country, too bad they have the biggest hurdle of all to face with the GOP and society and the ilk of Thomas, the color of their skin.

Whatnow?
October 3 2007, 10:36AM

...to finish up Midwestguy...To answer your question about whether equal justice is only applicable in cases when morality (personal Judgment) isn’t involved…the answer is no. Nor is it applicable in cases where you think it’s only beneficial to you or our people.

yeahisaidit
October 3 2007, 11:36AM

...oh miss derrick from philly...i HAVE tasted white ding dongs and they are filled with cream just like the black ones are...lol

Anti-Chavez Venezuela
October 3 2007, 12:03PM

Black AMericans are always playing the victim card in America. Yes racism is still in existence as an Afro-VEnezuelan I a can tell you about but AFrican Americans are sometimes raising the issue of race on just about anything this is just my opinion but please enlightened me if I am wrong. This website sounds more like a Socialist Elite CLub than any website. No wonder Why I left Venezuela I lfet to escape crazy Leftist Socialists especially Black Americans. Remember when Chavez was in HArlem! About a couple of years ago!

Derrick from Philly
October 3 2007, 12:40PM

elg:

You and I have had this discussion before. I have also argued bitterly with friends of mine on this topic--I felt they over exaggerated the part that light-skinned black folks played in the color consciousness "conflict". But your thoughtful comments made me ask OLDER black folks about the issue. They told me that, yes, the difference in treatment was evident, but that the perpetrators were often white employers who hired light-skinned Negroes over dark. Also, they said it was often dark-skinned black folks who put "yellas" on a pedestal when it came to issues of physical attractiveness. When I was a child in the 60's, I heard skin color insults hurled at dark-skinned kids. But elg, I swear, those insults "sambo, midnight,etc." often came from black kids who were only slightly lighter skinned than their victims. Us "yellas" NEVER used the skin color insult against dark kids-- we were too damned scared to.

Oh, I love anti-gay Chavez. I hate anti-gay Bush

Troy
October 3 2007, 2:13PM

they say most angry and bitter men are great in bed; I wonder where on the list is the cherry picker's son Honorable Thomas?

Gordon
October 3 2007, 3:43PM

@ yeahisaidit: I think I just threw up in my mouth...just the thought of suckin on something little and pink makes me wanna url...LOL.. my my my my my....emmmm! And stuff cumin out of it too...lord lord lord....LOL!

Derrick from Philly
October 3 2007, 4:37PM

Gordon:

What if it's large and pink? Or, what if it's black with a pink head? I've always been fascinated with those?

And Keith is going to ban me from this blog for bringing this discussion in such a wacky and bizarre direction. I can't help it, senility attacks "queens" early. Then again, didn't Justice Thomas indulge in this type of foolishness? Discussing the porn model, Long Dong Silver, is what he kept harassing Anita Hill about, wasn't it? That was brought out during the confirmation hearings. Didn't seem to bother that good ol' miscegenationist, Strom Thurman. So, by discussing dingdongs we're not too far off the topic, are we? We're following in the Clarence Thomas tradition.

elg
October 3 2007, 5:09PM

Derrick from Philly: What the older folks (and I'm not one of them - yet) told you is true. The recollection that skin color insults often came from blacks who were only slightly lighter than their "victims" is particularly accurate.

Andy
October 3 2007, 5:44PM

Viva Chavez y the revolution in Venezuela, give the power to the people, not just the rich "white" ones! Anyone who will stand up to the bullies like the dimwit in office in DC, is worthy of praise, and, the trolls who hate him, need to find a so called "Afro-Venezuelan" club to whine on,since this debate is about the USA and Thomas, so, child please.

@Gordon, thanks for saying what I would thought when I read that, it was gross beyond, yuck!

@Derrick, as one of the yella ones myself, I always found it to be silly that some blacks would put the yella ones on a pedestal, and forgot, to whites, we all look like Thomas. Its a shame, that the black commuinty is still confused by this nonsense.

cmoney
October 3 2007, 7:59PM

On that "color struck" issue, I have to agree that it is mainly a phenomenon of Southerners, especially darker skinned brothers and sisters. I am light skinned and I never heard anyone say anything negative about dark skinned people until I went to Howard University and came across people from the South. And who was saying the negative things? The dark skinned people. I never, and I repeat NEVER heard any light skinned person say anything negative about darker skinned people. Color never even came up. It was ALWAYS the dark skinned students from the South. Hair texture was a different story. I did hear negative things about "nappy hair" from some light skinned people. That's not to say that colorism didn't exist--you can see that from the historical documents at Howard. I just think that for Thomas to even bring that mess up in 2007 shows he has a lot of issues--especially since he married a White woman!!

Andy
October 3 2007, 8:29PM

Kudo's cmoney, he had the gall indeed, when he is laying up with a white woman? The same white woman that he could not have married less than 40 years ago? Or, in his hometown of Pinpoint, really been "lynched' for it? And, has an obvious hatred for black women? This dude neeeds mental help.

On the skin color thing, my grandmother bless her soul was one of those hung up on it, big time, and, with all the good she did in her life, that is the one thing that I wish she would not have had an issue with, as, at times she could not hide it, even with some of her grandkids.

And, to make the whole thing even odder, most of the light skinned ones always end up with the dark skinned ones, so, it really is folly, sad reflection of society, but, folly.

Kris in Atlanta
October 4 2007, 2:35AM

Its a no-brainer that Clarence Thomas has an identity crisis. Exactly whom does he see when he looks in a mirror, Bob Dole?. While he caters to the white establishment, they seem to delight in hanging him out to dry every chance they get; a recent article in a major white media outlet labeled Thomas the most unintelligent and ineffectual Justice on the High Court in the last 50 years! In whites' eyes, he is an anamoly. A sort of 21st century house nigga with privileges. But for whites, while they despise who he has, they enjoy what he does, which is keep the Black folk in line. With him on the bench, white racists are confident they will continue to have it their way. The real slap in the face is his claim to victimdom. Give me a break. How sad and ironic that our centuries of struggling culminated in the placement of this old jackass on the highest court in the land. I'm sure Dr. King is turning in his grave.

JOHN
October 4 2007, 9:01AM

@cmoney...you need to read "Stay Out the Sun by Marita Golden...that sister breaks it down...when I came to Howard that's all I heard was light and dark people and some of my professors talk about complexion. Howard is a very color stuck school...so many people drop out of Howard because they feel like they don't fit in with the "beautiful people with good hair"...if you were "light with good hair" you had it made at Howard...one girl told me she wanted a whiteman's sperm because she didn't want her kids to look like Donna Brazile. Black people are going to fertility clinics and requesting white donor eggs and sperm because they don't want anything black...these black people always tell me that if I have a choice I want a kid that looks like Rick Fox instead of Flava Flame. Blacks don't want anything dark and black unless you have tons of money. JC YOU ARE RIGHT, BLACK PEOPLE NEED TO ASK THEMSELVES IF THEY WERE NOT WEALTHY WOULD THEIR WHITEWOMEN WOULD HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH THEIR SORRY UGY ASSES.

elg
October 4 2007, 9:25AM

Let's say that the U.S. Supreme Court is a lost cause with Clarence Thomas on it. Let's say affirmative action is a lost cause. How does the composition of the U.S. Supreme Court, or the death of affirmative action programs, stop black youngsters from excelling in academics like that "model minority", the Asian-Americans. The best Asian-American students, on average, outrank the best white American students. Using poverty as an excuse only goes so far. Studies have shown that students from the "best" black families are often doing mediocre (or worse) schoolwork. What's up with that? That's not Mr. Thomas' fault, now is it? The alleged psychological condition of Mr. Thomas doesn't have to stop an individual who happens to be black from realizing his goals if he has any. The best revenge (and really the only revenge) is success.

Derrick from Philly
October 4 2007, 10:34AM

As far as black conservatives' feelings about affirmative action, job programs aimed at inner-city youth, etc.-- all those programs that were instituted and then sabotaged by Nixon, Ford & Reagan; I consider those inadequate reparations for over 300 years of free labor. Free labor that built the foundation of this country so that the later white folks(Jews, Irish, Germans, Italians, etc.) could come here and build a future for their descendents. For Clarence Thomas to be against these small payments to the descendents of the black builders of this nation is abominable.

On skin-color:
Dark skinned black men have never had a problem being considered beautiful in this country, especially SEXUALLY beautiful. Why do you supposed thousands were lynched--dark-skinned black men were a beautiful threat to white male sexuality.

Name me one light-skinned black actor who's ever risen to matinee idol status in movies or TV. If you say Shemar, I'll scream.

Anthony
October 4 2007, 11:01AM

I hear you Derrick, they act as if a little help from a government that has discriminated for 400 years is going to be the need all of end alls. They seem to think that 40 years has erased all racial injustice and hatred. And, they keep harping on, hard work and personal fortitude, give me a break, black folks work as hard as anyone else, and, now, have to fight for dead end jobs from immigrants. But, when you can't get a foot in the door, what's the point? You can come here from Pluto and be accepted faster than you can as a black person, and, don't even think about being a young black man and get a fair chance.

This man has serious mental issues, and is apparently scared from the racism that he now says does not exist.

Actors, didn't Harry Belafonte make it big in the 40's or 50s?

Derrick from Philly
October 4 2007, 12:03PM

Ooops. You're right, Anthony. How could I forget about Belafonte? But he was a beautiful light golden color. I meant real high yella like Adam Clayton Powell. Well, it doesn't matter, as long as we can recognize all male beau..... You know when I was a small child I had crushes on Belafonte, Sean Connery, Johnny Mathis, Omar Shariff and Brock Peters. Now, if that aint multicultural, what is? But my crush on Brock Peters was interesting: I used to love the way his pants fit him in "To Kill A Mockingbird" Yes, Lord, at 5 years old...and some of y'all say you can't be gay as a small child. Yeah, right.

Oh, and Elvis too. I didn't want to admit it, but we're talking 1963, what do you expect?

Anti-Chavez Venezuela
October 4 2007, 1:12PM

Andy and Derrick From Philly Have you ever been to Venezuela? You walk around the Streets of Caracas and other big cities and the poverty worsen since Chavez was back in power. I move to Venezuela from Caracas and still have family there but are willing to move here! You don't know any shit about Venezuela but do US a big favor MOVE TO VENEZUELA ANDY! AND DERRICK FROM PHILLY! i WILL BE HAPPY TO BUY YOU AN AIRPLANE TICKET AND DON'T LET THE DOOR SHUT YOUR ASS OUT WHEN YOU LEAVE THE USA! By the way JUST BECAUSE OTHER BLACKS DON'T THINK LIKE YOU Are THEY ARE UNCLE TOMS? Why do black people have to think alike isn't okay to be diverse! BLack Liberals hate diversity of opionions in the black community! Everybody should stick to race and other shit! VIVA AMERICA!!!! 1# country in the World! Like I said EVERYONE HERE SHOULD MOVE TO VENEZUELA IF YOU ARE UNHAPPY WHATS STOPPING YOU (ANYD AND DERRICK)

cmoney
October 4 2007, 1:56PM

Joh: I'm glad I didn't hang out in your crowd. HU is color struck, but I think some people come there expecting it to be that way and see what they want to see. I didn't say it wasn;t there, I just said I never heard it from other light skinned people. It was the darker people who brought it up every chance they could, much of it negative against lighter skinned people. I thought it was really ignorant since this was during the time we were protesting apartheid in South Africa. Anywho, Anti-Chavez--1st off, We aren't talking about Venezuela. Secondly, being an Uncle Tom has more to do with self rejection and self hate, not political ideology. There are many Blacks who are conservative, but very solid in their racial identity and self love. They would never sell out their own kind or refuse to hire or marry another Black person. Clarence Thomas is NOT one of them. He is an UNCLE TOM. You can be liberal or conservative, but you are a sell out Uncle Tom if you do everything you can to destroy Black people.

Derrick from Philly
October 4 2007, 2:33PM

Senor Anti-Chavez Venezuala:

You are right, I don't know shit about what's happening in Venezuala. But I do know a little about the history of right-wing conservatives in this country, and their support of right-wing regimes in Latin America, their involvement in fucking up Africa, their much deserved disaster in Viet Nam.

If you don't know why the majority of black Americans have continued criticism of white America's behavior on the issue of race then you don't know shit about Los Estados Unidos.

If you're a dark-skinned Venezualan, come here to the US and walk through a white suburb of any big city--just after dark...you'll find out why black Americans still have a gripe with our country.

Anti-Chavez Venezuela
October 4 2007, 3:06PM

Derrick why keep playing the Race Card? I still don't why you keep playing the VICTIM CARD? Like I said Racism will always exist but you need to BE LOGICAL WHETHER SOME SUITIATIONS ARE RACIST OR NOT? Lets also get real WHY DO LUNEY LEFTISTS IN THE USA COME TO LATIN AMERICA AND SUPPORT TOTALITARIAN FUCKIN RULERS LIKE CHAVEZ? LETS NOT FORGET DANNY GLOVER AND A PARADE OF LIBERAL ASS HOLLLYWOODS KISSING ASS TO CHAVEZ! DERRICK IF YOU REALLY HATE THIS COUNTRY SO MUCH THERE IS NO WAY OF STOPPING YOU BABY! YOUR NARROW MINDNESS OF RACE AND CLASS AND TO LACK OF LOGICALLY THINKING SKILLS SHOULD BE THE REASON WHY BLACKS ARE ALWAYS THE VICTIM RIGHT?

BY THE WAY DERRICK I LIVED AN A SUBURB OF CHICAGO AND I HAVE NO PROBLEMS OF WALKING MY DOG AT NIGHT! LIVED HERE FOR 3 YEARS AND HAVE NOT ENCOUNTERED A PROBLEM! ALSO DERRICK I THINK YOUR ASS IS TO SWOLLEN FOR YOUR BRAIN TO THINK BABY. BE LOGICAL!

Andy
October 4 2007, 3:29PM

Anti-Chavez poster, yep, I have been to Venezuela and a few other SA countries, and, racial prejudice is alive and well, and for the most part worse than here. If, you are black, you know the code words for he good jobs, "of good appearance." The bottom of the rung other than the indigenous people are the ones of African descent. wasn't it Venezuela that had a racist tire campaign a few years ago, the one with the lips of a black person compared to a car tire?

Keep it real, Chavez is no worse than anyone else, at least he is trying. And, for the life of me, why are you whining on this board? And, why are you in this country, shouldn't you be home fighting for whatever it is you are screeching about? But, then again the ones who have stolen the country blind are now living it up in Miami, and mad that they can't steal from the pot anymore. Or, find a GOP gay board where your off the all rants would be welcomed, this is about Thomas, not Chavez, sheesh.

elg
October 4 2007, 3:30PM

At 59 or 60 years of age, Clarence Thomas is going to be on the U.S. Supreme Court for the next 20 or 30 years. Are blacks supposed to resign themselves to being failures until CT leaves the Court or, maybe, hope that he drops dead of a heart attack before his next 20-30 years are up.

The Asian-American percentage of the student body at elite colleges far exceed their percentage of the general population. Many super bright Asian students come from not so affluent families and they still shine in academics, without affirmative action. Why can't we? Affirmative action is on life support and it ain't coming back.

Derrick de Filadelfia
October 4 2007, 3:41PM

Senor Anti-Chavez Venezuela:

I don't hate my country. I hate right-wing racists who call themselves "conservatives" who stop this country from fulfilling its promise to be fair and just. They nor you can tell me to leave here because my ancestors paid for my right to stay here, and "use the race card" whenever I damn well feel like it.
You talk about totalitarian regimes, you mean like Pinochet in Chile--who put him in office? What about the oligarchies who used to rule in Latin and Central American countries--who supported them, and allowed them to unleash death squads on their political opposition? The right-wing gringos in this country, that's who? Like George W. DumbAss Bush.

As for my ass being swollen. Well, that aint happened in 3 years, but I'm still hoping. Maybe I can find me a sexy Socialist Venezuelan Papi to do bang it up.

Logic? Who needs logic, I got emotion, baby.
Adios, Fascista

Anti-Venezuela
October 4 2007, 3:55PM

Wow Andy and Derrick thanks for the insight! Apparently Andy if you ever criticized Venezuelan Chavez you are being censored and montored. Its scary because pretty soon Venezuela might end up like George Orwell's book 1984. Andy let me ask you something in the USA you can speak up and have an opinoin on things this is called free speech right? What Chavez is doing is silencing his opposition you don't have the right to speak up! Free Speech is taking for granted here in the USA.

Also Derrick why is it that every Minority group like Vietnamese,Chinese, Filipinos and others are very successful and work together to build each other up. The next generation of these immigrants are very successful in American life because we help each other get ahead.
Instead of whinning about how Blacks are the Victims why don't you do something about it! I am a Spanish Teacher in Chicago and helping kids be bilingual to get ahead!

Thought Merchant
October 4 2007, 6:08PM

"Why Blacks Need to Think Twice About Supporting Ron Paul"
at www.thoughtmerchant.wordpress.com

also check the post:

"What Ails Clarence Thomas"

There's a new Black Blogger in town..and his name is
Thought Merchant

Andy
October 4 2007, 6:14PM

LOL, black kids can't get ahead, but, illegal children of immigrants can??? Maybe you need to check your facts, sorry, that tired old line does not cut it. Just because there are some out there who seem to think that ALL blacks in this country are a failure, the statistics don't prove it. The black kids in public school are deemed to be "slow" before they even take a test, so, I find it as laughable when I read posts that blacks have "failed" on every level a joke, and, shows just how out of the loop so many are. Newsflash, blacks are making it like everyone else, despite the racist nature of this country. And, the one thing I still don't get are posters who say there is no racism in this country. I guess, they are the same ones who voted for Bush and are buying Thomas' book!

The "level playing filed" benefited one group more than any other, and it wasn't blacks, it was white women, so, as for "affirmative" action, get rid of it, since, the group who should have got the most out of it, didn't.

Dionne
October 4 2007, 7:38PM

I have to say, after listening to and viewing his numerous television and radio interviews, that I have a new found respect for the man. I'm not necessarily in favor of all that he stands for, but I think he makes very good points, which is why I don't agree with Keith Boykin totally vilifying him. No one person is all bad and I believe that Justice Thomas sincerely thinks what he is doing is for the betterment of the entire country not just black folks.

No one really knows what happened between him and Anita Hill, and personally at this point I think it should be a non issue. She has moved on, and he hasn’t written a decision that rules in favor of allowing sexual harassment. One the one hand if he hadn’t said anything about her we would have all said, “what is he trying to hide,” and now that he did he becomes a monster.

As a for affirmative action, Clarence Thomas makes a good point about feeling like your degree is tainted, once you’ve graduated from a school participating in Affirmative Action.

Darnell
October 4 2007, 8:09PM

His degree may be tainted, but, its due to his own lack of ability, and perhaps someone who was more qualified under the program should have been admitted than he was, but, at the height of his admission, they were taking just about anyone who was black or Hispanic to make up for over 100 years of not letting any in. Mr. Thomas isn't exactly the sharpest knife in the drawer on any level as many judicial reviews of his rulings have made.

And, for the posters who keep harping on how bad black kids do in school, well, maybe a look at the drop out levels of Hispanics is much higher, and, usually ignored by the mainstream press. Just like the lie they said about more black men in jail than college, which was proven false.

Peace.

cmoney
October 4 2007, 9:06PM

Yeah, I'm sick of hearing that phony stat too about "more Black men in jail than in college". It's BOGUS! Jail age population: 18-80. College age population: 18-25. Which group do you think is larger? Compare apples to apples. There are more COLLEGE AGE Blacks in COLLEGE than in PRISON. People keep twisting facts to come out with the result they want. Like the one about "more Blacks living in jails than living on campus". Well, guess what? Most Black college students DO NOT LIVE ON CAMPUS. The fact remains that there are more college age Blacks ENROLLED IN COLLEGE (not living on campus in dorms, but enrolled in college) than there college aged Blacks living Jails. Conservative Trolls who come to these boards make the same claim everytime and it is WRONG everytime. Speaking of conservative trolls, ELG: Asians do benefit from affirmative action. If you believe they don't, you are either lying or ignorant.

elg
October 5 2007, 1:12AM

cmoney: I am not, nor have I ever been, a conservative or a Republican. So now who's stupid. Liberals have punkishly, over the years, allowed conservatives to define affirmative action based on race as "reverse discrimination" against whites without effectively fighting back. Most whites (and not just conservatives), rightly or wrongly, now believe this to be true. Calling me names is not going to change that.
Asian-American students are more likely than white students to have grade point averages of 4.0 or higher and perfect or near perfect SAT/ACT scores. They are actually a quarter of the student population at elite colleges because of this. Why would an Asian-American kid with this background need affirmative action to get into an elite college?
My mother always said one monkey don't stop no show. She always said there are four or five different ways to reach a goal. I just refuse to believe the end of affirmative action means the end of black progress. Is my believing that so bad, cmoney?

Ronald
October 5 2007, 9:35AM

I've worked as an electrical engineer manager for the last 10 years and I can truly say that not all Asians are smart ...many asian and white engineers are very slow. So many Asians are engineers, even the dumb ones. The African American engineers that I have trained have been sharp as tacks, very quick and smart.

I have witnessed white people and asian people being extremely hostile towards black engineers, because they have been programmed to think that black people can't be engineers.

cmoney you are right when you say Asians do benefit from affirmative action. If you believe they don't, you are either lying or ignorant. And white people benefits from people just wanting to keep black people out of the loop!!!

Luther
October 5 2007, 11:35AM

The whole myth of the "model minority" is just that, a myth. Just like all blacks are dummies and, all Asians on the same level as those smart whites is a myth. I went to a school in So Calif that was about a third Asian, and, most of them were in the remedial classes along with the ESL Hispanics, and, most of the girls in school that got pregnant were Asians or Hispanics, not the black girls that everyone would have assumed. The reason why blacks are always the "worst and lowest of the low" is the media. Young folks really need to know our history, there have been many changes in the past 30 years than were positive, but, until the negative images that the press and selective surveys of the US government spew, we will always get to look bad.

This country always has and always will play one minority off of another, be it based on race, gender or sexuality. And, that's why the legal system needs to be blind to injustice, but, with a right wing majority, they aren't, they bring their own hang ups on race.

Ingrid
October 5 2007, 1:04PM

My God, I don't think I have read such vitriol in a very long time. I thank Karmatic for posing the question as to whether or not anyone actually read the book. I found some of the baseless emotional charges against Justice Thomas incredulous at best and evil at worse. A lot of the comments here are the kinds of comments that will continue to keep blacks at loggerheads with one another. Comments ranging from hating ourselves to hating black women to sexual farce is typical of blacks when faced with another black who speaks another language. How sad, how very sad.

Gordon
October 5 2007, 4:33PM

@Ingrid: Well Ms. Ingrid, since you are such an expert on black people, please do not forget to include yourself in the comments and scenarios you are baselessly drawing yourself....

Everyone has a right to their own opinion, including voicing such an opinion about a person that hates and despise his own race. And that my dear is base and reason to be angry, confused and all out impotent towards a man with such feelings toward a group of people he clearly identifies with.

And I can almost bet my life, that you come back and respond to my post...

We don't have to read that shyt rag of a book to know that Clarence Thomas (You notice I did not call him Judge) is a hater of his own people, and needs psychological help.

And speaking of loggerheads, you took the time to read everybodies comments and make one yourself. If I had a gun, I would shoot that high horse you rode in here on.

NOAH
October 5 2007, 7:59PM

ALRIGHT NOW GORDON....

cmoney
October 5 2007, 8:32PM

ELG wrote:"I just refuse to believe the end of affirmative action means the end of black progress. Is my believing that so bad, cmoney?" Yes it is so bad! Before affirmative action, most Blacks could only go to Black schools. Those that graduated often had to take menial jobs with their advanced knowledge. Some of the smartest people in the Black community were the mail men. I know because I had an uncle who had advanced degrees earned in the South and the best job he could get was in the post office. Since affirmative action and stronger civil rights laws that Clarence Thomas wants to roll back, Blacks have surged ahead and the middle class has grown larger than ever. Look at all the Blacks in corporate America, medicine, law, the government and the military. This would not have happened without civil rights laws. We have always been talented, just not afforded the opportunity. As for having my degree or job "tainted" by affirmative action--that's better than not having a degree or job at all!!

Luther
October 5 2007, 11:17PM

Preach on it Gordon and cmoney, preach on it!! These trolls trot out with their nonsense on threads like this, and only for threads like this. Those of us who live in the real world, know what life is really like! And, without affirmative action, Thomas would be sweeping the floors at the Supreme Court, even with his "useless" degree from Yale.

Black folks have survived 400 years in a country that does not want them, but was built on the backs of slaves and underpaid and abused men and women, and, for the "conservatives" we will be here 400 more, and much to your chagrin, 90% still see right through the GOP and the flunkies they send out, and, won't vote for them, since, they have made it clear, black issues aren't theirs. The only thing they want to "conserve" is the good old days of the 1950's.

elg
October 6 2007, 6:52AM

cmoney: Federal laws were passed in the 60s that made it illegal to discriminate based on race, sex, creed, religion, etc. These federal laws will still be in effect when affirmative action is gone. A black 12th grader in today's world with excellent grades and high SAT/ACT test scores will have no trouble being accepted into a good college without affirmative action. Since affirmative action is going to end, we have to prepare for a different world or get left behind. Whining will not stop the inevitable, however, the federal civil rights laws will still be there to offer legal protection against discrimination. Everybody: Can we agree to disagree, without rancor and name calling?

Andy
October 6 2007, 10:52AM

-A black 12th grader in today's world with excellent grades and high SAT/ACT test scores will have no trouble being accepted into a good college without affirmative action.

Reality: Bad schools and no funding, so, just how is the avergae black kid to get the "good" SAT,ACT scores???

In The Black-White Test Score Gap, David Grissmer and his colleagues attribute the narrowing gap (they focus their attention not on SAT scores, but rather on reading and math tests given to 9-,13- and 17-year-olds) to anti-poverty efforts, school desegregation, class-size reduction and more demanding coursework implemented in the 1960s and early 1970s. The researchers suggest that teenage violence among blacks might have contributed to the widening of the gap starting at the end of the 1980s, but they warn that this is insufficient to explain all of it.

Researchers like Jencks stress the importance of closing the gap. Blacks who acquire the skills measured by these tests do better economically, he told FRONTLINE.

'dre
October 6 2007, 2:06PM

elg, the laws are on the books, seldom enforced, harder to prove and being taken away, block by block, since the GOP and the Supreme court, and black "conservatives" have deemed that there is no such thing as racism, and we are all free and equal. Proper funding of schools fairly would end this need, as would fairness in job hiring, but, alas, only to those who live in a fantasy world has this happened.

Justice is supposed to be blind, but, the way it is now, they are blind to obvious injustices, and with black kids getting shafted with mediocre schools, no matter if a straight A kid does good on the tests, he is also competing with kids who go to schools with Honors programs, and have GPA's higher than A and, few black kids get the top scores on testes, so, they will get stuck at jr colleges, not the elite institutions that guarantee good jobs.

400 years of institutionalized racism wiped out in only 40 years, amazing.

more cowbell
October 7 2007, 4:28PM

Regarding the comments on affirmative action and Black kids v. Asian kids in schools -- it's not so simple as "if group A can do it, why not group B?" What about the effect of the assumptions and biases of the teachers and administrators? They have conscious and unconscious ideas about groups of students, which affects expectations, encouragement, opportunities, discipline, & esteem from the get go.

I work with my local school district to advocate for students of color. It starts when these kids are small, the different expectations teachers/principals have of the different groups. When the Black young men reach middle school, even more so, but that's another subject.

Teachers often expect the Asian kids to do well. That same expectation does not often extend to the Black students. This has a definite effect as these students come up. I'm not saying this is the sole reason, but it is a factor I've not seen addressed here yet. My 2cents.

elg
October 8 2007, 8:00AM

andy: I cannot account for a poor black kid living in a bad 'hood' with a parent who doesn't care, goes to a bad school and makes poor grades. This group rarely benefited from affirmative action anyway. My reference point is a black kid who lives with a parent or parents who care about their kid's education enough to 1) work hard to be able to live in an area with decent schools and 2) insist that their kid take his studies seriously. 'dre: I know that racism still exists, however, I was making a distinction between the federal civil rights laws and the affirmative action programs/policies that exist (for the time being) in patchwork fashion from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. more cowbell: Not to discount how teacher expectations can affect how kids learn but I bet many of those Asian kids come from homes where their parents are pushing them to do well in school and meting out harsh disapproval (to the kid, not the "system" necessarily) when they don't.