Yep, He Did It

By Keith Boykin, in sports
Tuesday, August 21 2007, 9:42AM

A few weeks ago I tried to defend Michael Vick's right to a fair hearing. In America, all suspects are innocent until proven guilty, I said. Then yesterday the Atlanta Falcons quarterback finally admitted what everyone else had already suspected or believed. Vick was involved in an illegal dog fighting ring. And now, the NFL star with a $130 million contract will be going to prison for a likely sentence of 12 to 18 months.

All of this leads me to one very obvious question. What the hell was he thinking? Six years ago, Michael Vick was the first pick in the 2001 NFL draft. To become a black quarterback in the NFL is already a major achievement, but to be picked first in the draft as well is a huge deal. Now this successful young black athlete with a promising future and a fat contract has squandered it all for what? A criminal dogfighting enterprise? Was it really worth it?

Things didn't look good for Michael Vick when his co-defendants Quanis Phillips, of Atlanta, Purnell Peace, of Virginia Beach, and Tony Taylor, of Hampton, Virginia, all flipped for the government and agreed to testify against him. They admitted to operating a dog-fighting ring named Bad Newz Kennels based out of a property that Vick owns in Surry County, Virginia. But Vick denied all the charges until yesterday.

"Mr Vick has agreed to enter a plea of guilty to those charges and to accept full responsibility for his actions and the mistakes he has made," said Vick's defense attorney Billy Martin in a statement yesterday. "Michael wishes to apologize again to everyone who has been hurt by this matter." Apologize? Now he wants to apologize after lying to the public and the league about this matter. And the idea that he is accepting "full responsibility" is not that impressive because he only agreed to do so after he realized he was going to be convicted if the case went to trial.

It was bad enough that Vick's co-defendants admitted that the quarterback had helped to execute underperforming pit bull terriers by hanging and drowning them, but the other issue that will get Vick in trouble with the NFL is the gambling that took place, a violation of the league's rules on sports betting. Some observers believe Vick may be banned for life because of that alone. Which means he won't have a cushy NFL career to return to after he gets out of jail. Michael Vick may never throw another NFL football.

The NFL issued a statement in which the league condemned Vick's conduct, which it said was "inconsistent with what Michael Vick previously told both our office and the Falcons." The league promised to conclude its own review as soon as possible. Meanwhile, Vick has bigger issues to worry about. He goes to court on Monday, where district judge Henry Hudson will decide his fate and his sentence. It will mark a tragic ending to his career.

The sad truth is that none of this had to happen. Vick is a young man, of course, but other young men have steered clear of such trouble. And the same is true of young black men and young black NFL players. Michael Vick needed some direction, and he failed himself with his actions. But that's not all. His friends who knew about his dog fighting and gambling ring failed him as well if they did not try to intervene.

Not everyone gets the opportunity to become an NFL player or a celebrity or a public figure, and it's probably easy for a successful young man like Vick to think he's invincible. That's why someone in the inner circle has to have the courage to speak up to people like Vick and tell them to get it together. Friends don't let friends do stupid things.

But of course the blame still lies with Michael Vick. "Football is not the most important thing in Michael Vick's life," his lawyer said yesterday. Clearly that's the case. If he cared about the sport or his football career, he wouldn't have thrown it all away for something so stupid.

Comments (102) reveal

Comments conceal

Black woman
August 21 2007, 10:02AM

Yes, I'm am dissapointed that Mike Vick acted like a crazed fool with these dogs. He should be punished.

But, everyone is being so hypocritical about this. How come society excepts white redneck Bubba shooting at innocent animals NOT for food but for sport? You tell me the difference?

It's NOT ok to kill dogs but it's ok for some women to use abortion as a birth control?

Most of us are meat eaters? Do we ever stop to think how that animal was killed? I'm tired of being told chickens, pigs, lambs are killed humanely.

Yes, Mike Vick is wrong and needs counseling and some jail time. This ish' is disturbing but so are the rest of us.

Eric
August 21 2007, 10:26AM

There is NO Defending Michael Vick.. For This reason and this reason only. "With Much is Given, Much is Expected" Michael Vick Has Thrown his Last Pass in the NFL.. NO Team is going to take the PR Hit to make him the Face of their NFL Team. This is Not a Black or White Issue,It is a Moral and Illegal issue. For a Person, to actually DROWN,SHOT and ELECTROCUTE Dogs is a VERY Disturbed individual!!!!

Luddite
August 21 2007, 10:38AM

Despite his upcoming life time ban from the NFL, I'm sure Mr. Vick will have a great post incarceration career: making "Stop Snitching" videos. Something his co defendants wisely ignored when faced with long jail sentences themselves.

gs
August 21 2007, 10:44AM

You can take some people out the "Hood", but you can't take the "Hood" out of some people. Michael Vick was reckless, arrogant and thought he was invincible. He has lost his entire future by trying to "keep it real with his homies". I'm so sick of the ghetto-fabulous hypermasculine personna. A person like him was admired, but intelligent, cultured, sensitive brothas are called punks in our black communities. Hopefully, now Mr. Vick will grow up and become a man. He better detox from that hood mentality while he spends his time in the pen or he'll sink even lower.

Qtmia
August 21 2007, 10:48AM

RIGHT ON BLACK WOMAN...YOU ARE SOOO RIGHT!! VICK MAKE A STUPID MISTAKE...

WHITE REDNECK BUBBA CAN KILL ANIMALS FOR SPORT NOT FOOD AND GAMBLE AND KILL DOGS AND NOTHONG IS SAID...

WHY WAS THERE SUCH A LYNCH MOB OUTSIDE THE COURTHOUSE? I THOUGHT HE WAS ACCUSED OF KILLING A WHITE WOMAN...THIS WHOLE MATTER GAVE ME FLSHBACKS OF THE OJ SIMPSON MESS.

IT JUST GOES TO SHOW THAT YOU AS A BLACK PERSON CAN BE ON TV EVERY WEEK THROWING TOUCHDOWNS, SINGING, ACTING AND DANCING AND/OR DURING POLITICAL SOUND BITES, BUT YOU ARE STILL BLACK IN AMERICA

VICK JUST BETTER BE GLAD A WHITE WOMAN WASN'T INVOLVED ... VICK WILL BE OK AND HE WILL LEARN FROM THIS MATTER.

Cedric
August 21 2007, 11:09AM

Good for him getting busted, and this isn't a black or white issue as some have tried to make it, hear that NAACP? can't always be jumping on defend the black man without all the facts and saying he is being set up. This guy was a vicious, cruel man who tortured living beings for fun. Anyone who does not understand that dog fighting gets people in gambling and drugs and most statistics show kids who do it at a young age get into a life of crime. Yet another example of why America has issues with black men, this guy had everything going for him, and yet, he screwed it up for nothing. Take them out of the hood, but, can't take the hood out of them, just a shame.

Throw him under the jail and end his LUCRATIVE career, what a chump he is.

Blue
August 21 2007, 11:39AM

This is a fine example of "when keeping it real goes wrong." I am from Hampton Roads, and I can tell you first hand NOTHING good is going to come out of roaming the streets of the East End of Newport News. NOTHING. My parents were born there, and what was once a bustling black area has turned into a destitute, drug-ridden place. I am scared to be down there at all now. He should know that as a multi-million dollar athlete, you cannot hang around P-Funk and dem ... yes, those were his boys. But at some point you have to cut ties with a certain caliber of people. These negroes had nothing to lose and everything to gain, and those are exactly the kind of people you don't want to have around you when you are young, black and rich in America. People keep trying to blame race, but the only place to put blame is with Vick himself. He did this to himself and now he is in ruins behind it. It saddens me to see a talented black man fall, but this is not a case of "the white man" doing shit. It's a hard lesson ...

cmoney
August 21 2007, 11:45AM

Yeah but, he is one good looking brother! That's his only reeeming feature to me. Dog fighting is a pretty low down enterprise and it makes even less sense for a millionaire celebrity to be involved in it. The nuts from PETA got their pound of flesh from Vick, but he served it up for them too take. Can't be too sympathetic.

Kyon Saucier
August 21 2007, 12:39PM

Vick shoulda just bought an Xobx 360, there are fighting games forever on that system. And no doggs get hurt. *smirk*

MidwestGuy
August 21 2007, 12:42PM

Cedricm I am one of those who doesn't fully understand the whole dog-figthing thing. Can you post those statistics you mentioned regarding kids who do this and what life they end up leading? I've been hearing about this but have come up empty on how exactly is this a problem representing the black community.

Mikey-He Likes It
August 21 2007, 1:28PM

This is truly sad. A simple case of not being able to distance yourself from your childhood homies. At some point you have to ask yourself "Do these guys have my best interests at heart or are they dragging me down?" If it's the latter then you know what you need to do and unfortunately for Vick he didn't. And when the dog poop hit the fan it was every man for himself. When you're young, rich, black, and male you better look out for yourself and surround yourself with people who guide you properly.

Mikey
August 21 2007, 2:07PM

I don't think this Michael Vick case had anything to do with race. I believe if Michael Vick was a white guy there would be just as much outrage, however I do believe that the fact that he is black is nothing but extra icing on the cake, however I don't believe that it's the entire cake. I do agree with you though Black Woman, that nobody is up in arms about Bubba from Iowa taking a gun and shooting a deer just so they can stuff it and hang it on the wall or people wearing animal fur and such. Those animals are brutally murdered or just murdered period even if it is humane.

Rick
August 21 2007, 2:35PM

Mike Vick might never play football again? Are you kidding? In the United States, money rules! If he comes out of prison and still has athletic ability some team will take him if they believe he can help them get to the top.

And even if the NFL commissioner, Roger Goddell, bans him for life I bet once he gets out of prison the Hip Hop culture which embraces this type of behaviour all too often will welcome him with open arms. To many misguided young people, his prison term will add to his 'street cred' (a la Lil Kim). I can hear some hip hop lyricist writing a rap for Vick now (maybe a remake of "Who let the Dogs Out?'); I can see the CDs selling like hotcakes; I can see Vick laughing all the way to the bank.

Who says crime doesn't pay?

elg
August 21 2007, 2:39PM

It has been pointed out that many a serial murderer started their "careers" torturing animals. Many people, including me, loves animals especially dogs. I have a dog. I hope the judge in this case throws the book at Michael Vick. I hope he never plays in the NFL again.

Blue
August 21 2007, 2:55PM

Elg is right ... and my point to everyone who said it was no big deal was if they will do that to dogs, they are two paces away from doing it to people! It's a thin line ...

Cedric
August 21 2007, 2:55PM

Aside from the suffering, this so-called sport has several other disturbing aspects, which have been revealed by law enforcement raids. Gambling is the norm at dog fights. Thousands of dollars can change hands as spectators bet on their favorite dogs. Because large amounts of cash are present, firearms and other weapons are also common. Violent crimes, even homicides, have been connected to dog fighting in recent years. Furthermore, law enforcement officials have documented a strong connection between dog fighting and the distribution of illegal drugs.

The presence of young children at dogfights is especially disturbing. Exposure to such brutality can promote insensitivity to animal suffering and enthusiasm for violence. Anthropologist Margaret Mead suggested that acts of cruelty to animals committed in childhood may signify the development of an impulsive, assaultive character disorder. Psychiatrists at the Menninger Foundation revealed that a history of cruelty to animals can be symptomatic of serious

MidwestGuy
August 21 2007, 4:11PM

WHOA! I have zero idea how Vick and serial murderers are even remotely related. Also, this has nothing to do with hip-hop culture and it's silly to suggest otherwise. Of all hip-hop artists, I challenge you to find 5, no 3 who embrace the culture of dog-fighting. If you can find 3, just THREE hip-hop artists, I will at least give this ridiculous, overreaching, assertion a 2nd thought. Other than that, it's pure bullshit propaganda.

-Dog-fighting, along with other brutal game like hunting is sick. You do not have to be black, blue or powder blue to be sick. Let's not make this a black people thing as we too often do.

Cedric, nothing you just posted gives us any sort understanding of how this dog-fighting foolishness is a problem for black men. It is a problem for Michael Vick. Over the years, there have been countless cases of animal abuse/neglect, Vick is the first black person I've ever heard of doing this type of mess.

He is as wrong as the day is long but let's not stretch the truth.

Blue
August 21 2007, 4:45PM

I wouldn't go as far as saying dogfighting is tied to hip hip, but hip hop definitely has influenced younger black men's fetish with vicious dogs. Dog fighting sequences are often shot in rap videos, and these dogs are often on the covers of rap CDS. Is dogfighting a black thing? Of course not. Even this white chick on my job, who shows dogs, said that is the unfortunate part of this - that now people will think only black people do this when in reality it crosses all cultures. But there is a small connection between hip hop culture and this type of behavior where young black men are concerned. That's not a slight against hip hop, that's just real.

Cedric
August 21 2007, 6:16PM

Sorry Midwest, but, this is one of those forums where you can only post so many words in a post, so, I might suggest a simple google search for what specifics you are looking for. I know that some want to make this a "black guy" thing, but, for the life of I don't see how anyone can say he was within his right to electrocute and drown a dog. Dog fights are illegal, and crime goes hand in hand with it, but, I guess that since its mainly in the hood and out in the country, most people don't know or care what happens just like cock fighting in New Mexico and Louisiana, where both are now illegal as well. No one is to blame for this callous indifference to life but Vick, as are those who enjoy bull fighting etc, and Vick is the one making black men look bad, not the press. That chump threw away all that money?

Hip hop? Fine and dandy to enjoy it, but, no need to demean black women in the process and glorify jail and the thug life, just my opinion on that. I don't care for it, as I can't relate to it.

Ostend Street
August 21 2007, 7:42PM

What a sad situation? Looking at his checkbook should have opened his eyes, but if you don't have it from the beginning all of the money in the world isn't going to give you good sense. Good common sense is starting to take a back seat to foolishness and the bottom line is becoming great waste as a result of this foolishness. Let's glorify our black teachers, black scholars, and real black mentors. These are the people who should be pulling in the big bucks.

Steve
August 21 2007, 8:33PM

Um, hello. There are lots of "black" sport hunters as well as white, and if a white guy was caught hosting dog fights, he would also get thrown in the slammer, so please don't cry about race on this one. In fact, Vick is probably getting pretty much what could be expected for anyone through the judicial system. Unlike OJ, his celebrity and his race are not helping him out. As far as what the NFL chooses to do with him, there have been a lot of high profile players involved in activities that don't shine a good light on the league. I fully expect them to treat him very harshly. He should be considered very foolish for throwing away his career, and nobody bears the blame for that except him.

Tony
August 21 2007, 8:34PM

Frankly, I'm wondering what you were thinking Keith. Why did you race to defend him when there was overwhelming evidence to the contrary. Please stop making this a race issue, it's embarassing.
I doubt you'll think this is a fair comparison but it seemed like there are more people concerned about Michael Vick being treated fairly than are concerned about Genarlow Wilson being treated fairly.

MidwestGuy
August 21 2007, 10:35PM

I agree with you about the posturing w/dogs influenced by hip-hop. I do not agree that dog-fighting is. The NRA lobbies and advertises for guns. They do not promote murder. So the blame can't be that simple.

Cedric> I had a problem when you followed up your comment most statistics show kids...end up in a life crime." With "YET, this is another example of why Americans have issue with black men." The implication that somehow this is a black men doing bad thing. I have researched this and that has not been concluded.

This was a "callous indifference to life?" You must be anti-abortion. lol

Teachers, scholars mentors need to be rich. Amen to that!

Steve, I am going to unfairly stereotype you. But are you white?

Tony> Just not an accurate comparison. lol It seems as if you probably meant to say that "it seemed as if there are more people interested in Vick being guilty than they are about G.W. being treated fairly."

Now that I could agree with.

Cedric
August 21 2007, 10:48PM

Actually Midwest, I am anti-abortion, no need in this day and age to get pregnant unless you want to when they have free contraceptives. But, that is a can of baby not having a daddy at home that is for another day!

I think we all know that when guns and violence, especially in poor areas, it leads young men to jail, and I think we all know who is populating the jails and prisons in this country.

Its just a shame that this man with all his fame, fortune, looks and talent would be willing to throw it away for soemthign as henious as this. He knew that it was illegal, and, when you are as famous as he is and involved in illegal activity, folks were bound to talk, so, into the slammer and a loss of his lucrative job.And race has nothing to do with it, had it been Peyton Manning, he would have been vilified as well and justly so.

Steve
August 21 2007, 11:27PM

Yeah - I'm white. And? The truth of my statement stands. This is not an issue of race, except for those who may choose to try to make it one. Vick eff'd up BIG time. It's all on him. It's not on his race, and it's not on people who are out to get those of his race. He is being treated fairly, and that may in fact mean he loses everything. Cedric has it right - Peyton Manning would get it just as bad if he did something so stupid.

blackvirgo
August 22 2007, 1:39AM

All the money in the world, still does not make you a "real" person, this dude is sick.

AGE and Black Gay Men @ http://fatblackgayblog.blogspot.com/

Mitch
August 22 2007, 6:38AM

Consider forgiving Vick; he is suffering from this misfortune.
This is a great time for Black men to access what being a good man entails and how to better relate to each other. Vick was trying to be "the man" and that usually includes fake macho patriarchy b.s., ie., "at least he ain't gay!"
Something good can come out of this!
Vick is scared shit-less and alone now. His mind is bad, his heart salvageable. Amen.
He got caught up in the illusion.

brian
August 22 2007, 8:24AM

KEITH-I NEVER SEE ANY REAL NEWS ON THIS WEBSITE ANYMORE. EVERYTHING IS BECOMING SO SENSATIONAL. YOU HAVEN'T REPORTED THAT AMERICA IS GOING TO BE SENDING FEDERAL MONEY TO MEXICO TO STOP THE FLOW OF DRUGS AND HOW RIDICULOUS THIS CONCEPT IS. HOW ABOUT TALKING ABOUT ALL THE BAD IMPORTS FROM CHINA THAT IS AFFECTING OUR SECURITY AS A NATION. THESE ARE REAL ISSUES THAT NEED TO BE DISCUSSED AND DEBATED. MIKE VICK AND HIS IDIOCRACY IS NOT REAL NEWS THAT TRULY AFFECTS THE BLACK COMMUNITY LEAST OF ALL THE BLACK GAY COMMUNITY. PLEASE CONTINUE TO BE A PIONEER FOR THOSE WITHOUT A VOICE OR JUST SIMPLY LEAVE IT ALL ALONE. GOOD LUCK.

MidwestGuy
August 22 2007, 9:15AM

Cedric, although it's sensational to do so, abortions aren't performed 'only' on people who refuse to use contraceptives. That rather dumbs down the argument. But, ok.

I do not disagree with what you said and obviously you have backed away from the sweeping generalization you made earlier about black men and dog-figthing. I'm cool with that.

Steve, there is no AND. I assumed that anyone who could suggest that "Vick is getting what pretty much would be expected for anyone through the judicial system," is either: 1)White 2)Removed from black reality.

I never suggested that any of this happened because of his race. What I will say is that due to the backlash, people "of his race" are being unfairly potrayed as usual perpertrators for this sort of foolishness. I have issue with this being a "black problem."

I think that is disgusting. But, I'm not outraged by it. He should be jailed, suspended and allowed to continue playing if the league sees fit.

Blue
August 22 2007, 10:33AM

This is an excellent piece the Washington Post did on this situation, and I thought you guys may want to see it.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/08/20/AR2007082000898.html

MidwestGuy
August 22 2007, 11:16AM

Blue, I wouldn't consider it an excellent piece because it has only repeated what has been said over and over already--Vick had all the opportunity in the world and blew it by participating in foolishness and his inability to separate himself from long-time friends.

A better article on the actual sport of dog-fighting was forwaded to me by my best friend who lives in DC:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/08/21/AR2007082101997.html?hpid=topnews

What I did like about it is that it put "dog-fighting" into perspective. Thankfully, the article did not paint this as a black people phenom. In fact, two of the most eggregious perpetrators in the past years have been old white men.

Blue
August 22 2007, 11:53AM

I liked the piece because up to this point, it was the only one that included commentary from his family - from what I had seen, they refused to speak to any media at all. I was glad h is father was quoted because I had always wanted to hear his side of things.

Gordon
August 22 2007, 12:05PM

Steve: The judicial system is all about RACE. Even if not in this case. Not to say what he did was right, because it was wrong, and he needs to be punished for it. But, don't be fooled, WHEN IT COMES TO THE JUSTICE SYSTEM, ITS ALL ABOUT RACE IN REGARD TO BLACK AMERICANS (Jen 6).
Our country has a history of double standards when it comes to black offenders and white one's. GET REAL! And you are not a black man, so I and neither do the other African Americans on this board expect you to understand.
As far as O.J. Simpson was concerned, a lot of people think he got away with murder....And guess what, our history and our present shows us that a white man could do the same thing and not even go to trial.
In the front of every court house or Judicial building, there is a statue of this white lady holding a scale in her hand, with blind folds on her face. They need to chissle that blind fold off, justice is not blind, that bitch can see.

Blue
August 22 2007, 2:49PM

Here'a another one: the NAACP REALLY needs to stop defending him.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/law/08/22/vick/index.html

C. Baptiste-Williams
August 22 2007, 3:28PM

It is so easy to judge when you are on the outside looking in and only have the information the media puts out.

No one knows why he did a plea deal. Sometimes because of our wonderful legal system you have to take the lesser of 2 evils.

While it is not wrong to speculate it is wrong to place judgement.

ray
August 22 2007, 6:17PM

All this hysteria over Michael Vick has gotten way out of hand! If cruelty to animals is the real concern, well, look how cows, pigs, chickens and turkeys are treated on factory farms - that's something a thousand times worse than dogfighting - but does that stop people from eating meat? No, of course - people see THOSE animals only as food - but dont those animals suffer just as much as the "little doggies" (actually violent aggressive pitbulls) some people are whimpering about so much? Too many people try to make dogs into surrogate people, or living stuffed toys - they're PREDATORS - their role in nature is to hunt and kill, not to be playmates for humans! Everyone in this society benefits from cruelty to animals in one form or another (medicines developed with the aid of animal experimentation for example), so getting carried away about Michael Vick is ridiculous! I dont like dogfighting either, but since I eat meat occasionally, Im not going to attack him!

VERB
August 22 2007, 7:08PM

ray,

Predators? That was so insanely ridiculous. Seek help.

CJ
August 22 2007, 10:07PM

I know a little something about dogs & dog breeds. Pit Bulls raised properly are no different from any other breed of dog & yes some are bred just for companionship & to be a playmate for humans. To each his own. Hunters, farms & factories have nothing to do with what went on, Michael Vick & his friends commited really sick twisted acts on living creatures. They repeatedly beat, electrocuted, shot, tortured & did who else knows what. He lied when he got caught & would still be commiting these sick acts if the truth had not come out. That is what the real issue & outrage is about. To commit such acts & to even defend it says that there is something seriously wrong with an idividual no matter what your race. One that had been blessed with such such skills, looks & talent & to have less humanity inside than any of those so called predators sure is ironic

Jeff DC
August 22 2007, 10:49PM

I have come to believe that some black folk have completely lost their damn minds. How in the world can a person defend a man who admits his quilt for committing a crime? Until hunting and eating meat become a crime a person cannot in his right mind use them to compare to this situation. Yes, I am a black man and I believe a person is innocent until proven guilty. When a man admits his quilt why would the NAACP intervene? Don't we have enough real issues affecting my people that NAACP could be protesting? I can think a few just off the top of my head (education, poverty, health care). We black folk need to stop cheapening the race card. There are plenty legitimate reasons to play this card, but if we continue to scream racism for people like Michael Vick, R. Kelly, and O.J. nobody will believe us when there is just cause to use it. If I were to get busted for committing a crime and I admit my quilt please tell the NAACP to not waste their time. But hey, I'm not a celebrity so they probably wouldn't care.

Miyna
August 23 2007, 9:48AM

There is so much here about animal cruelty, but some people appear to forget that humans are predators too, plain and simple. We, also, are designed to hunt and kill. The major difference is that we were also designed to use tools to do so. And so we do, regardless of the "civilized" aspect of our so-called society.

The so-called 'race card' does apply here, not for his innocence or guilt (which was obvious anyway), but because he was already being condemned for it from the start. The problem is that if it were Drew Bledsoe, people wouldn't be angry, they'd be acting all confused, like "I don't understand! How?" I agree that there are more important race issues, but it's still an applicable issue.

Finally (and uselessly), hunting is actually done for a reason. It's prevention of overpopulation of whatever species they're hunting. Period. Preservation/control of an ecosystem, as it were. Whether we like the reason or not is irrelevant, and I don't, mind you. Whether people enjoy it is on them, unfortunate

cmoney
August 23 2007, 11:17AM

The NAACP is really losing a grip. It is supposed to be a civil rights organization, not a defender of criminals. Michael Vick's predicament is not the result of systemic discrimination against Black people. The fleas on Michael Vick are there because he chose to lay down with the dirty dogs of of dog fighting (and I don't mean the pitbulls he raised and killed!). Yes, the criticism of him is overblown by the PETA types (we already know they are looney tunes) and many racists have jumped into the fray, but this is not a racial fight. It is one person using poor judgment and he is paying the price. The NAACP cheapens itself to back up Vick (unless it is looking for a bog donation, which it probably is). Not every Black person in trouble deserves the prestige of the NAACP behind him. Some Black people get in trouble because they are just plain dumb criminals and that is all there is to it.

Equalnox
August 23 2007, 12:35PM

I think the NAACP needs to keep its damned mouth shut on this issue. Michael Vick is a grown man and multi-millionaire. He doesn't need the help of the NAACP. Chances are, if he hadn't been charged with this crime, he'd be parading up and down the Vegas Strip with a skinny white blonde chick on his arm. The NAACP should be spending more time on housing and job discrimination, real issues that affect the black community, as opposed to being concerned if white society prejudges someone who made more money in two minutes than I'll make in two years. Let this Thug, who just embarrased the rest of the black community, take care of himself.

alicia banks
August 23 2007, 1:00PM

this is a tragic case of the madness of twisted machismo

it is becoming more twisted daily via macho media imagery/thug bs etc

true manliness is not about millions or mangled dogs

it is about character

i hope vick finds some real manliness after he endures the consequences of his mindless actions

peace
ab
eloquent fury

MidwestGuy
August 23 2007, 1:54PM

We really should be careful how we publicly share information. The president of the Atlanta Chapter of the NAACP has voiced his support of Vick being allowed to return to football.
That's all he said. He does not speak for the entire organization.

Neither Dennis C. Hayes nor Julian Bond (to my knowledge)have made any statements in support of Vick. A quick glance at the NAACP's website failed to show any statement supporting Vick.

So while we are always quick to criticize the NAACP for even existing, let's share the correct information about where the NAACP is on this. Of course the media is not going to distinguish the two because it becomes less sensational. But, we should at least attempt to find out the truth and stop buying this media bullshit.

The NAACP supports Vick is just grossly inaccurate.

Michael Vick has in no way, shape, or form embarassed me. I don't believe in being embarassed due the actions of someone I don't even know. I hope that more blacks will eventually feel the same.

Equalnox
August 23 2007, 2:20PM

Midwest Guy, This is a headline society that we live in. True we should have all taken the time to pick through all of what the NAACP Atlanta Chapter president said, but most of us don't have the time or the desire to sift through a speech that should not have been presented in the first place.
Too many times we rally around our fallen heroes because we don't want white society to conquer us anymore than what they already have. Sometimes we need to sacrifice one of our own for the betterment of the society.

The NAACP Atlanta Chapter president should put out a statement condemning Michael Vick's dog fighting business.

Michael Vick has embarrased me. All the able-bodied black men who panhandle from white folks on the street, all the able-bodied black men who rob banks or gangbang and wind up on the six o'clock news embarrase me.

We're all ambassadors for our respective communities and unfortunately Michael Vick, one of our Ambassadors, let us down.

PDQ
August 23 2007, 3:39PM

People, people, people! Vick will be fine. He'll go to "Dog Fighting Rehab" at Promises in Malibu for a couple of weeks, spending his days shopping and drinking with friends in Beverly Hills. He'll get plenty of massages and mani/pedi's and he'll come out of "rehab" a new man! The judge will lecture him not to ever, ever do this bad thing again and let him go with a fine. The NFL will make him their poster child for getting help when you have "bad habits" and everyone will be happy.

"Gayhab" worked for Isaiah Washington so it naturally follows that "Dog Fighting Rehab" can work for Michael Vick. It's all about the big money that revolves around, and can be made off of celebrities. You and I would go to jail. Celebrities go to "rehab".

MidwestGuy
August 23 2007, 4:40PM

Equalnox, It wasn't a speech, it was a statement. Lack of time or interest in finding out the truth is nothing to write home about. People, due to their lack of interest and spin have concluded Michelle Obama was attacking Hillary Clinton. That's what happens when we don't seek the truth.

The Atlanta Chapter had already spoken out condemning his actions several weeks ago.

Sorry that you get embarassed by what someone else you don't even know does. However, your embarassment has more to do with you--than them.

Jeff DC
August 23 2007, 8:04PM

I would probably have ignored the Atlanta chapter President's comments if he were just Joe Public mouthing off. He spoke as a representative for the NAACP. Unfortunately this implies he got national approval before speaking at a press conference. He initially spoke when the indictment became known and the media begin trying Vick in public. He was out of line then and now. I agree that the press and PETA have overreacted. However this issue has nothing to do with racism other than the fact that Michael is Black. Now this NAACP representative is trying to guide the NFL's decision. He wants the NFL to ignore their rules and contracts and allow this man to operate business as usual when and if he serves time and returns to society. This is not the business of the NAACP, it's a matter that should be discussed between the NFL, Michael and the attorneys. I know the NAACP has more pressing issues in Georgia to keep them busy.

Tone Def
August 23 2007, 10:24PM

Vick has no one to blame but himself for his predicament. Do not pass this whole thing off as a "mistake". Locking your keys in the car is a mistake. What Vick did was a long-standing pattern of behavior that lasted at least six years. Not only did he fight dogs, he funded the entire enterprise, gambled illegally on it, tortured, electrocuted, and drowned the dogs, and then lied about all of it to the owner of the Falcons and the NFL commissioner. Micheal Vick is a bad guy, a sociopath, who has been enabled by yes-men, sycophants, and blind followers who feel he can do no wrong simply becasue of his athletic ability. Vick is only sorry he got CAUGHT! R.L. Smith, the blow hards at ESPN, and everyone else need to stop making excuses for this man. Trust me, there are plenty of people in this country who actually have been railroaded, people who don't have millions of dollars at their disposal to hire a dream team of defense attorneys. Take up THEIR cause

Equalnox
August 24 2007, 7:46AM

Once again MidwestGuy you missed the point. Michael Vick is a thug. The NAACP has to stop running to the defense of grown folks unless those grown folks asks for help. The speech from the NAACP should never have been given. I know the truth Midwest guy: Michael Vick is a thug who doesn't deserve any support from the NAACP or the rest of the black community.

Also, assuming you're black, the next time you get followed around the supermarket, don't blame it on racism, blame it on the black thug who robbed the place before you got there. A shouldn't have said embarrased, I should have said angry. I'm angry that once again another black man did something stupid and I and all the rest of the black men who are doing good things have to pay for it. We have got to stop defending black thugs and we have to stop trying to tell white folks how to think. Here's a link to Jason Whitlock, he echos my sentiments on this subject:

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/columnists/jason_whitlock/story/240088.html

MidwestGuy
August 24 2007, 10:32AM

Equalnox, maybe you don't understand your point. What makes Vick a thug? Because he pled guilty to dog-fighting? Or because he's a black men who pled guilty to dog-fighting? Vick has never been arrested.

-White (after condemning dog-fighting) suggested that the public w/hold judgment and the NFL allow him to play after he serves his prison term. Sorry you dont' agree. But, I do. You need to read what he actually said and stop listening to, of all people, ~~Jason Whitlock~~--one of the most self-hating, ignorant minstrels known to mankind. I would never use anything Whitlock says to validate any argument I might have.

You are argument is lacking reason. I should blame black thugs the next time I get followed around in the supermarket?

~~Hunh?~~

Why don't you tell Sean Bell's family that he was killed because the officers had a bad experience with a black man before Bell's brutal execution.

I'm angry that your mind functions according to such reason. That's a recipe for blatant discrimination.

Equalnox
August 24 2007, 11:36AM

Got it. If a black man (Jason Whitlock or I) disagrees with you he's an Uncle Tom. Thanks for clearing that up.

Vick is a thug because he knowingly participated in illegal dog fighting. He knowingly broke the law. So what if white folks pre-judge him. If the facts were in his favor, those white folks would be eating crow.

To blindly defend a black man soley because he's black makes us no better than the Ku Klux Klan with their white is always right way of thinking.

Your argument lacks clarity. If you want to be a puppet to the black machine that tells you to stay loyal to all black people even if they are doing illegal things, you're more of a puppet than I'll ever be.

And once again Michae Vick is a grown man/multimillionaire, he can take care of himself. The NAACP needs to shut up and let events happen.

I don't know who Sean Bell is, but I'll gladly tell the black thug before him that he made it harder for the rest of black men to walk down the street without being treated like suspects.

Malik
August 24 2007, 11:44AM

Mike Vic, well soon it will be Mike "Con" -Vic, and it should be. This brother, despite his brilliance on the football field is an absolute fool, and his sorry ass should be fined and be sent to jail. Vic's career is toast, over! "Otima" who posted to this site, said "Vic better be glad a White woman wasn't involved." Huh, his stupid ass would have been much better off IF a White woman WAS involved!!
No matter how you feel about dogs (and I'm a dog owner and a dog lover), they're innocent creatures, and are basically a reflection of their owners and the environment that they are kept. The vicious and callous treatment of the animals Michael Vic and his "boys" fought, tortured and killed demeans and affects all of us, especially those of us who live in urban communities where one is most likely to encounter a "Pit" being lead around by some wanna-be thug. Off to jail with him!

MidwestGuy
August 24 2007, 12:08PM

No you didn't get it. My issues w/self-hating Whitlock preceded whatever article of his you posted. I never insinuated you were an Uncle Tom so don't play the victim card. But, since you cried foul, I assume you've been called it b4.

You need to learn how to read.

I said nothing about white folks pre-judging him. Based on what you've written, it shows that you have an affinity for stereotyping and discrimination. Libby and MLK have broken laws but no one would consider them thugs. That's your issue.

You need to learn how to read.

I have not seen one person blindly defend Vick. I certainly haven't. I also have never excused his behavior

You need to learn how to read.

I hope you do not live in America or just woke up from a coma. I challenge you to (un)insulate yourself from the rest of black america. For you to not know who Sean Bell is speaks volumes. Then again, he probably was a thug who deserved it.

That's something you should be embarassed about. Really embarrased.

Equalnox
August 24 2007, 12:45PM

Midwest Guy, I tire of you. You did call Jason Whitlock an Uncle Tom.

You need to learn how to read what you wrote.

The NAACP is more than welcome to defend MLK, he's not a thug, Michael Vick is.

You need to learn how to think.

The NAACP Atl. Chapter did run to Michael's defense instead of letting Michae come to them or take care of his own problems.

You need to learn how to see.

If you think all black folks have to know the names and situations of every black person, you're crazy.

You need to learn how to not be a control freak.

I live in America. I was was almost shot by the police because some black thug who was wearing the same jacket that I had on robbed a restaurant. I know what I'm talking about.

I think you should be embarrased for calling a learned man, Jason Whitlock a Minstrel because his views differ from yours.

Really embarrased.

MidwestGuy
August 24 2007, 12:48PM

Equalnox, I'll post the link about Sean Bell. If I had the contact information for his family, I would post that as well so that you can tell them your version of why this execution happened.

http://www.keithboykin.com/arch/2007/03/17/50_shots_3_indi

As I said, you should be embarassed for saying such and not knowing who he is. Really, Really embarassed.

Equalnox
August 24 2007, 1:16PM

Midwest Guy, As I stated before I'll be more than happy to tell the black thugs that the police have had to chase down the streets for many years that they are contributing to my harassment.

You should be really embarrased because you can't see that the actions of black thugs reflect poorly on the rest of the black community. As I stated earlier, I was almost shot by the police because a black man wearing the same jacket as I was wearing robbed a restaurant.

I have no words of comfort to give to Sean Bells family. I have no words of comfort for any victim, regardless of color, who was gun downed by the police. It seems to me you're a reverse racist because you only care about black victims of police brutality.

I just followed your link. I didn't remember the guy's name, but I do remember this case.

I'm not saying that black thugs are the only problem when it comes to race relations, and if I came across that way, I apologize, but black thugs need to be called to the carpet.

MidwestGuy
August 24 2007, 1:35PM

I have a solution. Take some sleeping pills and stop responding. That should solve your problem.

I called Whitlock a minstrel not an Uncle Tom.

I did not, as you accused earlier, even indirectly insinuate that >you were an uncle tom. So you are a liar.

Both MLK and Vick knowingly broke the law. But, only one is a thug. That reasoning clearly demonstrates the affinity for stereotyping and discrimination I attributed to you earlier. It's the "I'm a better nigger than you are" syndrome.

I am not embarassed for calling Whitlock what he is--a self-righteous, fat-tongued, minstreled, opportunistic, sorry assed journalist.

You dislike Vick for killing dogs.
I detest Whitlock for his popular (yet pathetic) and many times ill-informed drivel against black men.

Now who's the better nigger? You or me?

Sounds like we both have our own issues.

This case is not about black thugs. It's about a foolish black man who participated in animal abuse. Let's not blur the two.

Equalnox
August 24 2007, 1:56PM

MidwestGuy,

Minstrel, Uncle Tom, it's basically the same thing. Whitlock has the nerve to think for himself and you can't handle it. Now you're using the "N" word. What other keywords can you come up with to try to force other blacks to following you and your reverse-racist way of thinking?

Let's make a deal, you take the entire bottle of sleeping pills first, and then I'll follow you... eventually.

MLK didn't use animals as an extention of his machismo, Michael Thug Vick did. There's no comparison. Vick is a thug, King isn't.

I dislike Vick you dislike Whitlock. Vick is going to jail, Whitlock isn't. I think I picked the better of the two.

The case is about a black thug. A black man wouldn't use animals for sports.

MidwestGuy
August 24 2007, 2:29PM

I thought you were tired of posting?

Deal with what I said. I said I didn't call you an Uncle Tom as stated earlier. 1st I called you an uncle tom. Now I can't handle someone who speaks for himself. 800-ABC-DEFG

The only thing I can do is share my thoughts. It would be foolish of me to think that I can force people to agree.

I am usually the dissenting opinion on this board. So, I have no problem w/people who speak for themself. Ann Coulter speaks for herself. It doesn't mean that I have to like, respect or be intimidated by her ridiculousness. Same w/Whitlock.

On the pills: Be a leader not a follower.

Now thugs are those who need to use animals as extensions of their manhood? What sort of ass backward thinking is that? Ever call Dahmer a thug?

Going to jail is not a reason for me to dislike someone. I like MLK and Malcolm. Both went to jail.

Let's not get into what makes a black man. In my view, a black man would know the name of Sean Bell.

The word is nigger.

Equalnox
August 24 2007, 3:00PM

MidwestGuy,

You're the more outspoken of the two of us, so you take the pills first, be the leader you truly are.

I have dealt with what you said, you however have not dealt with what I said. You completely ignored my experience with the police and the black thug who almost got me killed. I could have been Sean Bell. I don't need to know Sean Bell's name. He wasn't paying my bills and neither are you.

Dahmer wasn't involved in dog fighting. What the hell are you talking about?

"N" word, "N" word "N" word. Racially charged words don't become you. Your precious NAACP had a funeral for the "N" word. Maybe you should too.

Why don't you got sit next to Vick while he's in jail. Whitlock and I will be at the ESPN sports bar, watching the new quaterback for the Atlanta Falcons.

Let's get into what a black man is and what a black thug is.

Vick: Thug. Whitlock: Man.

Vick: Jail. Whitlock: Free.

See the difference?

MidwestGuy
August 24 2007, 4:29PM

In summary:

You have had a traumatic experience being almost shot be the police. It has rightly/wrongly distorted how you view the world. Unfortunately, it has misplaced your anger.

In your mind, it wasn't the policeman's profiling of you that almost got you killed. It was the robbers fault that he had on the same jacket and had the same complexion as you. The robber made them almost pull the trigger.

Got it.

Black people who commit crimes such as dog-fighting are thugs irrespective of their lack of previous criminal history.

Got it.

Black people who commit crimes should never have someone speak on their behalf.

Got it.

You encourage racial profiling because the behavior of black thugs warrants it.

Got it.

You believe that saying "n-word" lessens the impact of nigger and that the former should never be uttered. It, unlike thug, is a racially charged word.

I get that.

You hold such a poor journalist in high regard.

That I find hilarious!

Vanilla_Snow
August 24 2007, 6:43PM

I am delighted to see Vick has been indefinately suspended without pay. Pity his "boys" snitched on him almost immediately. So much for ghetto fabulous.

Oh yeah for MidwestTroll: As a white man Jeffrey Dahmer has in NO way, shape, or form embarassed me.So I feel you my Brother when you say that about Vick.

Gordon
August 24 2007, 10:15PM

Midwest Guy: You are a genius, great, great, great come backs...from one midwest guy to another. Because I was getting tired of the "great Equalnox"..whatever!

PDQ
August 25 2007, 12:38AM

Midwest - you're an apologist. And a pathetic apologist at that. Take the pills first. Do us all a favor.

MidwestGuy
August 25 2007, 11:35AM

Vanilla>PDQ,

On behalf of Keith Boykin, the moderator, and all the black and gay men of America, we thank you for your insightful commentary!

Gordon, thanks. Stories, overwrought with emotions such as this one, goes to show us how we are more myopic than we care to admit.

I challenge that sort narrow-mindedness. Don't have to always be right to do so.

Kay
August 25 2007, 1:16PM

First and foremost, I've heard many people say that this is not a black and white thing. Irregardless of how we want to feel about racial matters in this country, as much as we want to believe that this is a progressive country and as much as we want to believe that this is a Utopia--it is not. It is very much a black and white issue. I heard an artist once say, not in these exact words but, isn't it ironic that a white dominated "sport" such as hunting where men can shoot deers and other beasts and then post the heads of those animals on their walls can get away with pure murder but a black man who makes a mistake of killing a dog can be prosecuted and taken to the Supreme Court. Think about that. Michael Vick did nothing short than these WHITE men who actively participate in an activity that also kills animals. From my experiences animal fighting and hunting have always been called a "sport." Was it not a sport when they used to fight chickens?

Kay
August 25 2007, 2:10PM

Finally, it is a black, white and GREEN issue. If an opportunity presents itself where a black man's green can be taken away, they take it. So I'm in support of Vick and I think its admirable that the brother stands and walks tall into that courtroom because I'm pretty sure he knows that the world is against him but when its time to go to war, just as the Spartans, whether you lose or win, you give them the fight of their lives. \
And if most understoood the judicial system in this country, it is setup to be intimidating, to trick you into saying what they want you to say. Anybody whose had a little brother stand in front of a judge saying I'm guilty, just because he was told he would get a lesser sentence, whether he was guilty or not, will understand Vick's struggle when it came to the option he chose in dealing with this case. As for those who say he deserves WHATEVER the judge gives him needs to be in his shoes as this very moment. You take your ass to court and then jail and let me know how it fee

MidwestGuy
August 25 2007, 3:09PM

Kay, I understand where you're coming from, although I'm not certain if what all you say applies to Vick.

We do know that those involved did not mistakenly brutally torture those dogs. It was willing and without a moral conscience.

Ron Lee
August 25 2007, 6:21PM

All I want to know is,who Vick sticking or who is sticking Vic. I never see a female interest in his enterouge. PEACE. TALK ABOUT DISCRIMINATION THE PRESS ACTS LIKE THIS MAN HAS NO SEX LIFE.

Dianna Thomas
August 26 2007, 10:30AM

I have one thing to say the sum up his actions "Dumb, Dumb, Dumb!" With all of the ample time he had on his hands and to think that he utilized such time by participating in such inhuman acts is incomprehensible. However, I am not going to pass judgment here, but I will say that we have more serious matters in the world that we should be addressing such as poverty, homelessness, AIDS/HIV and so on. If Vick had utilized his time on these matters instead then perhaps he would not be in this mess. As I always said, "One should be held accountable for his or her actions."

elg
August 26 2007, 11:41AM

Ron Lee: What are you trying to say/ask? We know, through the media, that Mr. Vick has herpes because a woman he gave it to sued him and won. So "everybody knows" he has it. If he feels embarrassed/conflicted about having herpes, it could stand in the way of him building strong, healthy sexual/romantic relationships. Herpes is treatable, however, it is not curable and can be passed on even when there are no obvious symthoms.

Southernboy
August 28 2007, 2:58PM

Diana...I find it very hypocritical that you call him dumb and talk about what he should have done with his time, when in the next sentence you say that you aren't "...going to pass judgement here." You've already done that. And Ron Lee...go sit down somewhere. That has NOTHING to do with the argument at hand. Do actually ever SEE Vick and his entourage(the correct spelling)?

ray
August 31 2007, 5:55PM

I like dogs, but this whole Michael Vick thing has gone out of control - its gotten ridiculous! And race DOES play a part - look on AOL's message boards devoted to this issue and you'll see a landslide of blatantly racist comments from white posters, along with calls for him to be tortured and lynched! Everyone who eats meat or uses medicine or some other product that was deveoped with the aid of animal testing is benefiting from cruelty to animals! Just because WE dont do the killing doesnt make the animals' suffering any less! Dog-breeders routinely kill unwanted puppies all the time - and of course animal shelters do as well! Just because a bunch of caucasian misanthropes puts dogs above humans in value is no reason for US to go along with them! Dogfighting is a 500 MILLION DOLLAR industry in america, so Michael Vick is hardly the only one!

ray
August 31 2007, 6:27PM

verb, are you telling me dogs ARENT predators? WHAT ARE THEY THEN? HERBIVORES? LOL LOL Dogs are descended from WOLVES - of course they're predators! Wolves run in packs - they give their loyalty to the alpha male - the pack leader! When humans own dogs, the dog transfers that loyalty to its human owner - that's not "love" - its just instinct! Dog owners just choose to see their behavior in human terms! You might want to see them as your little babies, or living toys you can play with, but their purpose in NATURE is to hunt and kill!

qtmia
September 5 2007, 9:52AM

RIGHT ON RAY FOR TELLING TE TRUTH!!!

RACE HAD EVERYTHING TO DO WITH THIS CASE!!!

Everyone who eats meat or uses medicine or some other product that was deveoped with the aid of animal testing is benefiting from cruelty to animals! Just because WE dont do the killing doesnt make the animals' suffering any less! Dog-breeders routinely kill unwanted puppies all the time - and of course animal shelters do as well! Just because a bunch of caucasian misanthropes puts dogs above humans in value is no reason for US to go along with them! Dogfighting is a 500 MILLION DOLLAR industry in america, so Michael Vick is hardly the only one!

lovejones
September 5 2007, 6:01PM

Ya know many of you have made some valid points, & just to add to what's already been said, You can take the brutha out of the hood but ya can't take the hood out of the brutha. This has been proven time and time again, and yes indeed something is very wrong with any individual who doesn't have a problem drowning, executing, and hanging pups, and dogs for the hell of it, "cause they didn't perform well in yo dog fight". That's a messed up in the head person, I'm a counselor and I'd say he's pretty messed up in the head. Ya see I'm a firm believer in if ya do wrong then wrong will follow, likewise if ya do right then right will follow. Many of your serial killers started out torturing animals then they just moved to the next level, hell what will be next. I must also say I feel ya when ya say that america is not being honest, cause yes they have men who hunt animals for sport and not for survival, but we black folk just got to remember that no matter how much money ya got ya still black!

ray
September 7 2007, 3:27PM

lovejones, people who work in slaughterhouses have no problem smashing in the heads of cows and pigs and then slitting their throats - do you think they're "messed up in the head" too?
Are you a vegetarian or a vegan?

Ron Lee
September 9 2007, 1:39AM

Qtmia, I totally agree with you. There is a mistrient group of americans who hunt and killed harmless animals for mere sport. How could anyone kill a deer, we know that gun toating culture in america comes from the culture of white-supremacy,I have a right to keep my weapons just in case those negroes or indians get out of line.

Equalnox
September 10 2007, 1:08PM

Vick and other people in the public eye, regardless of color, are role models for kids. Kids are saying if Vick can do it, so can I. I don't want Vick's thuggish behavior to be transfered to another naive kid.

Jeffery Dahmer was a model citizen until he got caught. He's a cannibal, Vick was a model citizen until he got caught. Vick is a thug.

If we look at the timeline, If Vick hadn't done A, the public wouldn't have reacted with B, i.e., No one would have judged him because there would have been nothing to judge. Just like my run-in with the police. If the black bank robber hadn't done A, robbed a restaurant, then B would not have happened, i.e., me almost being shot because of some black thug who didn't pay attention in school.

There used to be a time when if a black kid did something wrong, the whole black community would whip his ass. Let's get back to that. Let's stop defending black thugs and start whipping some black ass.

southernboy
September 11 2007, 11:22AM

Equalnox. I can't do anything but laugh at you. If you think that this is thuggish, then I would hate for you to meet some real thugs. Thugs, not only limited to black people, kill people not dogs...

Equalnox
September 11 2007, 12:45PM

I grew up in a poor black neighborhood. I went to school with real thugs who did bad things to good black people. Dog fighting is very much a part of the thug mentality. It's a shame Vick didn't rise above his upbringing and move beyond the B-boy crowd.

lovejones
September 12 2007, 6:00PM

To answer your question Ray, no I'm not a vegan, but I did say kill animals for the hell of it, it's one thing to kill for food, and something totally diferent to kill for the sport of killing. Now I must say that I also agree that this has went way out in left field. You'd think that he had killed a human the way the media is asking for his head. Now for those who feel that this isn't even slightly connected to race, then ya need to get your head out of the sand. Here in Tn we had a pastor's wife kill her husband in cold blood,(she shot him in the back of the head while he slept while the kids were there) she was white! That was last year, they've already had the trial and all, she's back out on the town she did less than 9months and they are awarding her, their kids back to her, and get this, she's won a seat on Opra Wenfrey show ya get the point. Now you tell me whthe hell is going on around here. If he was white it would be over now, fine him enuff said.

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