A Battle of the Books
By Keith Boykin, in books
Monday, August 6 2007, 12:38PM
Indianapolis Colts' coach Tony Dungy's new book, Quiet Strength, reached the number one spot on the New York Times bestseller list this week. But lest you draw any conclusions from Dungy's religious-based inspiration, keep in mind that Christopher Hitchens's recent book God Is Not Great is ranked number three in this week's New York Times bestseller list. And it's been on the list for 12 weeks already.
The two books are also fighting it out on Amazon. Hitchens's anti-religion book is ranked number 25 on Amazon.com this morning, while Dungy's pro-religion book was ranked number 31. So what does all that mean? Is God not great? Is religion under assault? Is there a racial divide on religion? And how can two seemingly opposite philosophies co-exist in the same literary sphere?
Let me say from the beginning that I don't have definitive answers to these questions. But I do think the questions are still worth asking.
Much of Black America was excited when Colts' coach Tony Dungy became the first black NFL coach to win a Super Bowl earlier this year. As a black man, I was excited about the achievement too. But then Dungy knocked the wind out of my sails when he announced that he's a supporter of James Dobson and the anti-gay Indiana Family Institute. As a gay man, I can't support that.
Meanwhile, atheist author Christopher Hitchens has written an entire book on what he considers the malignant force of religion in public life. His arguments got him mainstream media attention for the past few months in a country that purports to be a Christian nation. But what would have happened if Hitchens were black? Would the black community have disowned him? Would the white community have dismissed him?
It often seems to me that black people have become more religious than our white counterparts. It seems that many of us have taken the religion that was given to us by our slave masters and incorporated both its positive and the negative elements. We take comfort and strength in our faith for better days ahead, but we also buy into the divisive elements of religion that seek to separate and distinguish ourselves from those who do not share our beliefs. That's what troubles me about Tony Dungy's Christianity.
I don't have a problem with religious people, but why do so many of them have a problem with me? How is my relationship bothering or affecting Tony Dungy or his family? If I met Dungy, that's what I would ask him. One reviewer in Indianapolis, after noting Dungy's post-Super Bowl decision to speak to the Indiana Family Institute and support a ban on gay marriage, asked a good question: "How does his faith square with legislation that would deny equal rights to a subset of the population?"
In the end, that's what bothers me about some of the religious people in our country. It's not a critique of religion, per se, but rather a critique of the idea of using religion to justify your belief that you are better than someone else or some other group. And it's not enough to explain that "all of us have sinned," as some Christians like to say when they compare homosexuality to adultery and robbery and other so-called "sins." To assume that my sexuality, at the core of my sexual being, is the same as the behavior of a criminal, is slanderous and offensive.
To say that "we all have sinned" is not an equitable means of distributing the burden when your sin is lying and my so-called sin is simply existing. When people ask "What Would Jesus Do?," I am always reminded that Jesus never addressed homosexuality anywhere in the Bible. Nor do the Ten Commandments, for that matter. So where is this modern-day obsession with homosexuality coming from?
A few years ago, I was on a panel in Atlanta with Rev. Jesse Jackson and he asked the 8,000 audience members at Tavis Smiley's annual "State of the Black Union" if anyone in the group knew someone who had lost their health insurance. Hundreds of hands shot up. Does anybody know someone who had lost a job, he continued. Again more hands shot up.
Then he continued. How many people know a gay couple that wants to get married in a black church? Virtually no hands. Well, if that's the case, and it's not a pervasive issue in black America, then why do people like Tony Dungy and so many other black ministers spend so much time worrying about it?
Those of us who are black and know our history know that religion has been used for centuries to justify discrimination against black people. Frederick Douglass explains in his autobiography that his slave master would literally quote the Bible while whipping him. Slaves are to be obedient to their masters, the Bible said. And 20th century racists used the Bible to justify segregation and anti-miscegenation laws for decades.
Religion has an important place in our society, and it should. Religion can be a positive force for good in the world. But when religion starts to be used to justify discrimination against other groups of people, then I have to check out. The Christian Bible has no more place in deciding who is acceptable in the world than the Koran or the Torah or the teachings of Buddha. Maybe that's the point that Christopher Hitchens was trying to make.
The religious battle between believers and non-believers has been going on for millenia, but the literary battle is not as old. So who will win in the publishing world? In next week's New York Times bestseller list, Dungy's book drops to number two and Hitchens's book remains in the third spot. The new number one is a book called Lone Survivor by Marcus Luttrell with Patrick Robinson. It's the story of the sole survivor of a Navy Seal operation in northern Afghanistan who lived to escape.
Comments conceal
Mel Smith
August 6 2007, 1:11PM
Keith, bigots of all colors don't care that their ethnic, religious or gender group suffered from inncorrect Bible beliefs. Bigots are only concerned with justifying oppressing the weakest group in society; the homosexuals. Bigots are always blind to the discrimination that they suffered. Women bigots, white bigots, black bigots, gay bigots, Jewish bigots, Muslim bigots, Catholic bigots, or whatever. Heterosexual bigots believed that our sexual orientation is 'unnatural' because of their lack of understanding or refusal to understand diversity. A black person who supports Lou Sheldon has to be one of the most ignorant brainwash fools of the 21st century. During the 1960s, people like Lou Sheldon would had supported segregation. Like high school bullies, bigots pick a new group to try to bully.
Keith Boykin
August 6 2007, 1:23PM
Oops. That should have said James Dobson, not Lou Sheldon. I will go back and fix it now.
Kenneth Winfrey
August 6 2007, 1:31PM
"We take comfort and strength in our faith for better days ahead, but we also buy into the divisive elements of religion that seek to separate and distinguish ourselves from those who do not share our beliefs...using religion to justify [a] belief that [one is] better than someone else or some other group."
Without the instant notion of self-worth that comes with privilege, many of us grasp for the straws of religion to rationalize our fate. The hierarchy of worthiness is imposed upon us by those who see something other than our character (and spirit) as a basis for our life experience.
Religion provides only as much as those who practice it can receive. Those who cannot see the unconditional love of God are as lost as any "sinner" ever could be.
bubba
August 6 2007, 1:47PM
Well, Tony Dungy isn't a representative of faith for the Black community. He hasn't presented himself as one either. I don't think his book is selling furiously because of unilateral support from his own ethnic group. As far as the comparison between Dungy and Hitchens, our community has always wanted a separate sense of self while secretly aspiring to the standards of our predominant white culture. Coveting their religious traditions is no different, even down to misinterpretations of scriptures. Everybody wants to feel superior to someone else, and what other power can straight Blacks wield against gay Blacks? The fear of eternal damnation.
Mel Smith
August 6 2007, 2:17PM
Great comments gentlemen!
Ron Lee
August 6 2007, 2:42PM
I think everyones statements here are enlightening; however you all should know that African people were christians when Europeans were burning people for being so. I also must state that Keith, I thought you knew Mr. Dungy was a religious fanatic when his son died I knew there was more to his personality than meets the eyes. I have no proof other than intuition ;but I beleive his son was dealing with the issue of sexuality. In no way do I see this man as a leader,trust me he's living with some serious guilt and if in the future years you read he's had a break down just remember' I told you'. P.S. Mr. Hitchens is a Brit. his people conquered many of our ancients ancestors including the Isrealis,they studied them as well,they knew things about the world that Americans are just coming to terms with,despite Hitchens atheisim he's more balanced. And I wonder Keith would you have done a peice on Mr.Hitchens and his book without the comparison to dungy?
Ben
August 6 2007, 3:08PM
Religion may be divinely-inspired, but it is man-made. And man is a thinking creature of many flaws and faults.
Religion (while primarily used to control the poor it seems) serves as a tool in anti-gay bigotry and discrimination - it is not the source. The prominent Leviticus passages were written during the Israelite captivity in Babylon as a way for the Israelite slaves to distinguish themselves from their captors. Anyone who has studied minimal Middle Eastern history knows this.
Meanwhile, the true source of gay hate is fear. Straight men fear gay men. (I'm not neglecting women, but straight mostly white men rule the world, so....) Until that fear is conquered/ explained away/ etc we note little or slow change, lamenting the ignorance expressed as violence.
However the latest generation of young people certainly seem to have less fear about sexuality than previous ones. So hope remains.
ChicagoAngel
August 6 2007, 3:12PM
I hope this does not lead to some type of Tony Dungy bashing. he has not attacked gays at all. He has only stated he does not beleive in homosexuality because of his religion and has done so without attacking or belitting anyone. He has that right. Tony's son was having issues with sexuality?? Ok sure....Im not sure how anyone could know that who is postin gon here.
Tony Dungy relies on his faith and he believes it brings him blessings. how can anyone knock that? What do you want the man to do pat gays on the back? Tony Dungy has not came off fanatically about his faith post something where he has and I'll believe you!
billy
August 6 2007, 5:48PM
I don't agree with his support of Dobson but I respect his position on the issue-at least he's being honest about it. I always tell people (specifically christian folks) who don't agree with homesexuality that you don't have to like it but you do need to respect those of us who are. And there are some of us who love God and believe we have a right to the table just as they do.
Mel Smith
August 6 2007, 7:11PM
Ron Lee, traditional African religion respected homosexual people. In one African tribe, they were known as the 'gate people.' I completed a research project on homosexuality in West Africa. European Christian missionaries introduced gay prejudice to Africans. Read "Boy Wives and Female Husbands" by Bill Roscoe.
Mike_88
August 6 2007, 8:35PM
Y'all make me sick... you all are still high on Dungy. I'm sorry it's one thing the acknowledge it a little bit. But I feel that no one has called foul on him. He's a bigot. He obviously don't respect the rights of others. and I've been going around some some blog and looved how you Dungy-high pushover try to give him the benefit of the doubt: "He doesn't know that they don't support all families,"He's naive to know what family really is"... pulleeezzz. He is probably as fundie and right winged as Daddy Dobson. But y'all so strung up that you give him a pass. That's why he's getting away with it. Y'all still wanna kiss his ass.
Mel Smith
August 6 2007, 10:24PM
Mike_88, I could not have said it better. I don't understand how some of us could support anyone who think we are second class just because of our sexuality. If that is not self hate, than I do not know the meaning of self hate.
ChicagoAngel
August 6 2007, 10:43PM
I do not see how someone can say he treats gays like second class citizens when all he has done is state what he believes. he has not come out like some crazed preacher saying we all going to say. He has always stated his position fairly and without trying to bush his views on anyone. Gays like to bash just as much as the people who do it to them. Just cause someone doesnt agree with your sexuality doesnt mean they hate you or think your sick yet you are so quick to judge him and call him homophobic. Some in the gay community are heterophobic.
Post something worth mentioning that has shown tony dungy in the light some of u protray him as other than whats in your own head
Jeff
August 6 2007, 11:32PM
How about the fact that he supports an amendment to the constitution banning gay marriage. Now mind you it's not for me but why is it so important for them to protect their supposed sanctity of marriage to the point of banning someone else from having the same rights? Sometimes actions speak louder than words and his actions speaks volumes.
Mike_88
August 7 2007, 9:56AM
If he said that on his own without the IFI or some moderate black organization that just isn't warm on gay marriage, that statement could hold water. But he said that proudly in front of an ultraconservative organization that opposes gay rights. I don't think he that stupid to just go into any organization that says "family"!!!! Before he made that speech he understood well what the organzation was about. I swear that Vince Lombardi Trophy has super powers lol!!!!
elg
August 7 2007, 10:13AM
Why does Tony Dungy have to make an extreme statement like 'I hate gay people' to be considered a bigot? If he supports an amendment to the U. S. constitution banning same sex marriages, that's enough to make him a bigot in my book.
White segregationists, who "believed" the races should be kept separate, used the Bible to support their hatred and discrimination against blacks. White people who once "believed" in slavery used the Bible to justify the institution. People who "believe" women should not be preachers (or that men should be 'head of the home') use the Bible to back up these beliefs. And on it goes. Does the fact that someone believes something because the Bible says it make it OK? I don't think so.
Michele
August 7 2007, 2:26PM
In my opinion, Blacks tendency to feed into the condemnation of diverse sexualities stems from two things. Firstly , African people have historically been very spiritual and ritualistic and those characteristics remained throughout time, even if their actual religion changed. Secondly, religion has always appealed to those most disenfranchised in society. Because must of their existence is rooted in struggle, the oppressed rely on religion because it brings sanctity to the reality that they live and for faith of a better tomorrow.
With that being said, I think the social constructs of American society is reason for the racial divide in religion. It makes sense for Tony Dungy, black, to place much emphasis on spirituality and Christian Hitchens, white, to not.
saint james
August 7 2007, 9:20PM
To say that Jesus never mentioned homosexuality is as simplistic and uninformed as when straight folk say that God made Adam and Eve and not Adam and Steve. It's silly and does not come from an informed intellect. I know that Keith thinks more deeply than that so I don't know why he persists in using this phrase. I saw him use it on BET several weeks ago.. Christians are supposed to believe the entirety of scripture. If Jesus was a Jew would he not embrace the understanding of the religious people of his day around human sexuality? If he meant to refute the belief then why didn't he? He callenged every other misperception they had about God, violence, money, religious ritual, prayer, marriage, adultery (in the heart)and on and on. The subject matter demands something other that that platitude.
cinny
August 7 2007, 10:14PM
I think that gay people are our salvation!!! I like the fact that nature or nurture has made it so that every part of the world has to countinence a gay individual. Gay poeple are not an "accident", rather they are a concommitant product of human reproduction, and natural influence(s) on that reproduction. What, I wonder, are the biological underpinnings of homosexuality? - simple gene polymorphisms? is it the amount of hormones we are exposed to during gestation? thank you my homo-sexed brothers and sisters for bringing the noise !!! I note the christian patriachical trinity is all male, a homo-sexed trinity, devoid of female (goddess) principle, and sexuality. What would god like sex look like? hmm Osiris/Ausar was the best lover!! so says his wife Isis/Auset, we made tantric love for a week? the sweat from our love making caused the nile to overun its banks ..
saint james
August 8 2007, 11:58AM
Nap Time!
sivatmin
August 8 2007, 11:40PM
I really believe that evangelical religion will die out and soon. People are really starting to realize that a majority of these people are IN IT TO WIN IT (the money that is). While reading Hitchens' book and Richard Dawkins' book, I found myself saying "Amen" to most of their statements. I've stayed away from the shallow minded, head-in-the-sand evangelicals since 1997 when my pastor at the time told me that before he tunes the church piano, he has to wait on the Lord to tell him to do so. I was 21 years old at the time, and I was the minister of music. I remember so vividly that I walked out and never returned. And they even had the nerve to call and beg me to return. These people are misled by their own delusions. However, some are "smart" and take advantage of the credulous by stealing their money. I'm so glad to be rid of this lifestyle. Thanks Keith for your great site!
saint james
August 9 2007, 2:32PM
Your pastor sounded like a dadburn fool. You may be right about the current right-wing-radically reublican-media-whoring form of Christianity being very near death. The real church is alive and well. It has survived for 2,000 years. The church is here to stay.
a.m.
August 9 2007, 5:45PM
Not only is it bigoted and judgmental for someone to say they "don't believe in" homosexuality, it is also amazingly preposterous. How can you "not believe in" something that just IS? We're talking about PEOPLE, not haunted houses or werewolves! OK, so if we're gonna start operating under this faulty logic, I "don't believe in" the number 37, rocky road ice cream, or mountain lions.
Mel Smith
August 10 2007, 12:45PM
am, your comments are great. I wish I had made those statements.
Sr. Maria Renata Apare
August 11 2007, 12:02PM
Bom dia from Brasil, I am Sister Maria Renata Aparecida I am a member of the Domincan Sisters of Mary Mother of the Eucharist! I am a former Model and Student in Rio de Janeiro. I read Chris Hitchens new book it was good it challenge my faith but at the same time it streghten it! I left everything and followed Christ to be his humbled bride!
There is also a New book which has been 1 Seller for 13 weeks in Germany, France, Italy and Spain. Its called "JEsus of Nazareth" by Pope Benedict XVI it will hit Brazil and the USA by October. I have no right to judge on this website all I can I offer to you all is my prayer and my humility. I will say the Rosary for all of you and go to Jesus my Groom at Eucharistic Adoration.
"JUSt because you are YOung do not be Afraid to be Saints in the Third Millenium" Pope John Paul World YOuth Day Toronto, Canada July 2002!
See you at World Youth Day 2008 Sydney!
cinny
August 11 2007, 12:48PM
I'm really grateful for homosexuality. I've heard arguments that the world is overpopulated, and what better way to slow down this overgrowth then w/ some of us opting out of reproducing. Sex is for more than just reproduction. I think mere biological reproduction is base, better to reproduce/buttress/and invent those institutions that contribute to the "greatest good for the greatest number". And the Pope steals most of what he knows from ancient Egypt and other "pagan" traditions, and this has been well documentmented in books like "Christianity Before Christ" (John Jackson)and "The World's Sixteen Crucified Saviors" (Kersey Graves).
Sr. Maria Renata Apare
August 11 2007, 5:09PM
Cinny Can you prove that the "Pope Steals most of it from Ancient Egypt and pagan cultures". Perhaps you need to read the Early Church Fathers like St. Ignatius of Antioch who lived in 110 A.D. and a disciple of St. John the Evangelist, also St. Polycarp and St. Cyprian of Alexandria and Bishop of Carthage in NOrth AFrica.
Look Cinny and all others I didn't come here to bash anyone or anybody. All I said was I will pray for You! I am not better than you. I left modeling because I found Everything in Christ who is my Groom. No one can ever take that from me! Cinny God bless you, you may say negative things about me but I love you in Christ! I pray for you! I give you my Humility and my prayers! I minister to those in JAils in Rio de JAneiro and pray the Rosary with them! I try to give to the hungry and needy! God knows the hearts of men! Deus Ama Voce!
cinny
August 12 2007, 12:29PM
Hey St.Maria Renata, fact, did you know the cathedral of notre dame is built on a temple dedicated to the worship of Isis and her virgin born son Horus. Story sounds familiar to your virgin born Jesus doesn't it? Get the two books I mentioned in my prior post and you'll know what I know ... Christianity, is a relative late comer, and is a copy of a copy of a copy. Look it up. I'm telling you there is very little new (mythologically speaking) in Catholicism other than their need to rub on little boys.
Sally Jesse
August 13 2007, 2:03AM
Hey Cinny I am not religious but you don't bash a Catholic Nun like that what's wrong with you! You know I am a Moderate Independent I am not Liberal Democrate or Conservative Republican but Cinny honey you are a Standoffish stuck up liberal! Face it American is moving in a moderate direction.
My mom is Catholic since you are bashing Catholic PRiests since only statistically only Less than 1 percent are child molestors. Public School teachers are more likely to molest or harrass a child.
Cinny your mama is So ugly she forgot to put on a condom you came out 9 months later.
Cinny your so ugly that when having sex they put a plastic bag on you so they won't have to see your face!
This is for Sr. Renata even though I am not religouis! Cinny what comes around goes around! Also Cinny I am not a Catholic Nun but I can say that about you! Tight ass Liberal! - Moderate Voice of America!
Prof. Smith
August 13 2007, 2:30AM
Hey Cinny I am a an Atheist but You don't bash Sr. Maria like that. Even though I am not Religious I admired Sr. Maria Renata before she became a Nun she used to work at a modeling agency in Brazil. How can you judge her if you don't even know her. I admired her ORder the Domincan Sisters of MAry Mother of the Eucharist they run hospitals, oroanages and schools in the favelas. The Church is the only instution that give services in the Favelas in Rio and Sao Paulo since the Brazilian Govt. is so corrupt. Statistically Catholic Priests are less than likely to molest since most child molesters are married.
Also Cinny I am tired of liberals like yourself, Sally you are right I too am a moderate. But Cinny you are a Standoffish Stuck up liberal. Just mad because the bitch didn't get some last night! So she picked on Sr. MAria!
Sally like the joke, it made me laugh so hard. Cinny see its not funny been made fun at you just Called Sr. MAria "rubbing it on little boys" what goes around goes around!
Sugi Singh
August 13 2007, 3:04AM
Hey Cinny Your Liberal Version of Inclusiveness and Tolerance fell on deaft ear because you just bash someone who is changing humanity. I am not Catholic or Christian but I admired Christianity and Catholicism in General because when I was in India I saw Catholic Nuns working in Orphanages in Delhi. In India there are Caste systems, many of the Dalits are in the lower castes but those Catholic Nuns weren't afraid to touch them! Dalits are considered untouchables. I saw them reaching out to Hindus, Muslims and Sikhs. They didn't convert them but saw the face of God on each on of them!
I was doing my doctor intern I saw Catholic Nuns and Priests running HIV/AIDS hospice in Tanzania when society forgot about them. Back in India in Bombay I saw Catholic Nuns helping Child Prostitutes get out of the lifestyes. Cinny ask yourself what can I do to make the world a better place? Cinny if today was your last day on earth how would it be spent? Lets not bash those who are making the world a better place!
Lady M. Quinten
August 13 2007, 3:36AM
Hey Cinny As a YOung Catholic that was really offensive how can you bash somebody who has done nothing to you. Did Sr. MAria Renata bash you or spew hatred towards you. It makes you look like a bladdering idiot an a "Standoffish Stuck up liberal". Looks like someone read too many Da Vinci Code Books, Hey Catholics and Christians may not be perfect but we can still love others.
Also Cinny I am no big fan of Radical Fundamentalism and I think Church and State should be seperate. But Liberal Idiots like yourself gives Liberals a bad name. I am a Moderate in the Politcal spectrum but you are just as bad as those on the far right!
So Cinny do me a favor rexamine yourself and whatever you do make the world a better place rather bash those who are already doing that. Love the jokes about you anyway! So funny!
Also to my Millions of Young Catholics see you all at World YOuth Day in Sydney 2008 with Pope Benedict! We want to bring World Peace and Justice throughtout the world!
MAd Black Woman
August 13 2007, 4:21AM
Hey Cinny guess what I think you are an idiot. I am not Catholic but why bashing the Catholic Nun. Looks like someone didn't get some last night. I was in the Democratic Republic of the Congo or Zaire. One thing that really move me because I thought all Catholics or Christians were bad. I saw a beautiful African Catholic Nun she was beautiful in the inside and outside. She lived with the local villagers children would clung to her. When the Militia Men destroyed the village she was the first one getting killed because she rushed back to grab the children to safety she was hacked to death. She represented the Best of Christianity the Face of God in every human being.
Also Cinny I think you are some can't reproduce but you are too ugly to "Reproduce" anyway just like you commented above. Hell your kids might look really ugly! So do me a favor don't reproduce! Make the world a better place! We don't want a world full of ugly picknannies like yourself!
What comes around goes around girlfriend!
saint james
August 13 2007, 12:13PM
Is this a real conversation or is this a protracted and very unfunny joke?
Sr. Maria Renata
August 13 2007, 3:26PM
Hey Cinny, I am no better than you and I never will be. But you make yourself look bad. But I am not going to say hateful things about you. I just pray for you. Before I became a Nun I was an Agnostic PArty girl I partied and did drugs and alcohol. I had an STD thankfully it disappeared.
I find peace in God that I can't describe it to you. But lets make the world a better place me and the Sisters would love for you to come down to Brazil and help out!
One more thing Cinny a sister told me "Bearing Fruit for the Lord is what matters In a blink of an eye everything will change like a trumphet blast. We don't know how or when. We are just going and trusting" May MAry Mother of the Eucharist Protect you! God bless you all of you and your work!
cinny
August 14 2007, 2:10AM
Western Christianity and Science will always be at war. Followers of the Patriarchical Abrahamic Faiths, (x-tian, moslem, judaism) devoid of Goddess principle. It will take time, but ultimately 3 Billion women come to realize they have been duped into believing God is a He, w/ no She anywhere. Patriachical con men, be prepared to get your genitals re-adjusted. A Male can say they represent a Male Abrahamic Patriachical god and get dozens of females to follow them, however, can a women currently say she represents a female Matriarchical Goddess and get dozens of men to follow her? Hmm. Well gods and goddesses will go the way of steam loco-motive soon. Every era in human history believed they were worshiping the most correct god or goddess and that the prior era's gods or goddesses were errant. Our era is unique, it will see science supplant god and goddess.
BITTER
August 14 2007, 8:44PM
Thank GOD I'm an atheist.....
Michelle Malkin
August 16 2007, 2:02AM
Wow thank God that this site is filled with Snotty standoffish liberals and Feminists like Cinny. Also Bitter why do atheists are so bitter. Science doesn't have an answer to everything. Yes Evolution did occur but before the "big BAng Theory" what happen to the universe before that! See God's time wasn't our time doesn't mean the world was created in "SEven days" doesn't mean literally seven days. It could have been 7 billion years ago! ALso Cinny please you always talk about "FEminists Matriachy" crap why don't you do something go save the damn world instead of bashing a Catholic Nun!
Also keep doing your thing Sr. Maria! Also Bitter why using the word "Thank God" if your an atheist?
Michelle Malkin
August 16 2007, 12:42PM
"It will take time, "but ultimately 3 Billion women come to realize they have been duped into believing God He, w/ no She anywhere "
WOw count me out of those 3 billion women who are calling God goddess? Feminists are a bunch of bitches who are not satisfied with everything and as an angry bunch always assume that every woman is on their side? After supporting abortion for women especially women in the third world who are practicing gender selection abortions in India and China and silence about it and yet its their rights?
The Liberal Whackos and Feminists are just as aging in the 1960's out of touch with modern America!
Hey Cinny girl do me a favor, just so you know I am a Woman and I hate Feminists! See I am not on your side! Girl Power!
Eulala Jennings
August 16 2007, 1:15PM
Hello Cinny you don't speak for all women, I am a YOung College Women and African American and attend the University of Virginia. True I admired Feminism in some way I vehemently opposed it!
I belong to the Network for Enlightened Women (NEW. We are YOung Conservative Women who are opposing Feminism. For Years now Feminists voices speak for us and shun other women's viewpoints other than Feminists own viewpoints.
Be very afraid because we expanding to other Colleges and Universities we are already in 45 Universities in the USA with 30 more in the next 2 years!
See a bunch of Feminists WAckos don't speak for me or Millions of other women! Down WITH FEMINISM!
Shayla Goldmon
August 16 2007, 3:02PM
Cinny you don't speak for all women like myself. Feminsits think that their voice is the only voice for women like myself. Although I admired women to speak their mind and empowered them I am tired of Feminists on College Campus speaking for all women!
You don't speak for all women and I am tired of Feminism! All feminism ever did was degrade women to sexual objects and loathe on sex without benefits. Also you degrade millions of women who are dressing as sluts on the streets because of Feminism! Where men can portray us a sexual objects and nothing else!
Feminism is irrelevant and dead! Down with Feminism!
Sr. Maria Renata
August 24 2007, 6:49PM
Bom dia again Thank you to my sisters Michelle Malkin, Shayla and Eulala.
We women are fighting Feminism and their wacko ideas. Oh Cinny we are starting a Enlightened Women Group here in the Universitites across Brazil. We want to show women that Feminists don't SPEAK FOR ALL WOMEN and that FEMINISTS ARE JUST A BUNCH OF ANGRY WHACKOS THAT BASH MEN AND DON'T think with their heads but with their vaginas.
ALso Cinny you said "SCIENCE will uproot gods and goddess"? Let me tell you something honey, Not all Christians believe in Creationism. But we did evolve for billions of years but before the "Big Bang Theory" did life exist? GOD probably created the world 7 Billion or 7 Trillion years? See GOd's Time is not our time? Seven days in the Bible could be Billions or trillions?
Science and Religion go hand and hand. But SCIENCE DOES NOT HAVE THE ANSWERS IN LIFE. SCIENCE CAN'T EXPLAIN WHATS GOING TO HAPPEN TO US THE NEXT DAY ITS FATE. DOWN WITH FEMINISM!
cinny
August 27 2007, 4:02PM
Why can't folk admit that they don't know where we came from? That's ok. No shame in not knowing the ultimate cause(s). Instead we create myths to explain origin(s), how death came into existence, etc. We need to call Myths, Myths. There is no shame in not knowing, e.g., agnosticism for example. I don't "know where we came from", or what happens after we die, what I stand for is the "greatest good" for those who are here, and the generations that will inhabit the earth after I'm long gone. We have enough religions that attempt to explain origins or why death exist, what we need is wholesome/responsible Science that will allow us to live better in harmony w/ the Earth and Each other. Right now a large portion of our "Science" is being co-opted by "for profit" corporations. Look at the human genome, and how corporations have trademarked parts of it (almost 20%) for their own private advantage. So Religion and Science are at War, but everything has a human/frail underpining. Greatest Good is Very Important Here
cinny
August 28 2007, 1:15PM
Wow sorry Sr. Maria Renata and to all the other women I am just another "Feminist Bitch" that needed a reality check!
Sr. Maria Renata
August 29 2007, 1:36AM
cinny, honey I teach Biology and Physics at the Pontifical Univerisity in Rio de Janiero Brazil. As a science teacher I think I know the difference between faith and reason. Sorry as a Scientist my faith doesn't really come at war with my science reasoning.
Before teaching I studied with the Vatican Observatory outside Rome. One of my professors was a Jesuit Order who was a Physics teacher and a Neuro Biologists at the University of Rome. So I guess Scientists can be faithful too!
Also If you want my advice please I would love for you to lecture my classes at the University to share your insights on my students. If you are not a scientist don't worry about! Thanks and Bom dia!
Catholic Scientist
August 29 2007, 2:44AM
Hello I am Professor Kenneth Miller I am a Biology Professor at Brown University in Rhode Island. I am staunch defender of Evolution. I am also a devout Roman Catholic.
Before I became a professor I studied in ROme at the Vatican Observatory where Catholic Scientists . I also had Several Jesuit Catholic Priests who were professors they taught Physics, Chemistry, and Biology. Fr. Gionavelli was a Physics Professor at the University in Rome who taught me about faith and reason. Many of the CAtholic Professors were brilliant defenders of Science but also of the CAtholic Faith. Like the "Catholic Intelligencia"
cinny your Post don't make since because Science and Religion are not at war. Believe I am taught Biology for 25 years. Maybe your faith in God was not real because of past emotions? Please visit my website! Also I am not a Fundamentalist whacko but a defender of evolution and FAith and reason!
Robert
October 14 2007, 5:09PM
I may have to bookmark this comments page, so if I ever have to explain to anyone what a 'sock puppet' is, I can show them this page. Sr. Maria Renata, we all know that all of those posts are from you - you didn't even attempt to disguise your, shall we say, characteristic rhetorical style from post to post. It doesn't make us think 'wow, look at all the people agreeing with Sr. Maria Renata'. It makes us think, 'wow, this woman is crazy-obsessed with tearing Cinny down', which is rather different.
Cinny, by the way, brava to your post.
Catholic Scientist
October 15 2007, 2:22PM
Robert thanks for showing how Liberals how free to show and express their comments and how people of faith are being teared down. Also I didn't criticized Cinny at all, First I think its important to dialogue with other people's opinions. And second if you threatened with Religious people being Intellectually in the Sciences then thats your problem Robert.
I suggest reading HOw the CAtholic Church built Western Civilizations. Sr. Maria doesn't speak for me or does anybody with that matter. All I can say Robert keep learning and studying about the World around you! Also Read Richard Dawkins The God Dillusion Awesome Book by the WAy!
MArk
October 15 2007, 2:56PM
Robert you want to know the truth there is no "Sr. MAria Renata" I just made it up!!!! I just wanted to see if Liberals would be "Tolerant enough" for a person of Religious and SPirtiual Background I am trying to find religion by the way. I am doing my paper I know its sound kind of corny and stupid. But the COmments I made about other people well I was kind of tick off especially Cinny! I am a Second Year STudent at University of Illinois with a Major in Political Science and a Minor in Biology. I am not Liberal or Conservative by the way. But due to this project and observation I found out that the most intolerant people woulb be Liberals. They say the like freedom of expression but if somebody disagrees with them then they are ticked off and shoot you down. Oh Robert you might want to check out Professor's Book called "Finding Darwin's God" A Scientist Searching For God. By Prof. Kenneth Miller.
Mark
October 16 2007, 12:50AM
Robert I would like to apologize to all here in this website I use a person of good will just to do my research. I am not Catholic but my parents are Secular Humanists, Again I wanted to write this book Called "Conservative and Liberal Attitudes towards Religious". I also was a studying abroad and I did study at the Vatican Observatory, even though I am not A BELIEVER I found CAtholic Jesuit Priests teaching chemistry,Logic,philosophy, biology and they were very intelligent. I was really impress. These learned men taught more than what I experience myself! Look I am not a fan of "Right Wing Fundamentalist Christian" who deny evolution but they were the exception.
Again I am sorry for the offense at this website and for PEople of Faiths. If were to become Christian someday I would become a Catholic. Robert, Cinny I am sorry!
FRE
October 18 2007, 1:57AM
"I always tell people (specifically christian folks) who don't agree with homesexuality that you don't have to like it but you do need to respect those of us who are."
What do you tell people who don't agree with brown eyes?
Mark
October 22 2007, 12:55PM
FRE Want do you mean Christian folks don't agree with Homosexuality. My parents are Secular Humanists and they think Homosexuality is quote "Unatural" because its not of our "Biological NAture". Not all Non-Religious people are supportive of Homosexuality too, did you even thougt of that? Yet you rush to judge some People who have faith.
Also my dad is a Biology Teacher at High School and one of his student was gay and asked about a "GAy Gene" and he said that the Science World have no found a GAy Gene if they did it would be biased due to "Homosexual Activists". FRE Im just tryin to get you to think logically!!!!
Also Some Christians may approve of Homosexuality while others don't like my Family who is not religious AND YET STILL DON'T AGREE WITH HOMOSEXUALITY BECAUSE OF OUR BIOLOGICAL EVOLUTION. Think Logically, just because people who don't have any faith they agree with Homosexuality!
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