What Rutgers Tells Us About Duke

Blue
April 11 2007, 5:15PM

I think the Duke case is bigger than race though ... that is also about the entitlement athletes feel to do whatever the fuck they want. That is something that needs to be addressed. I almost think that is a bigger component in that case, because we all know athletes pretty much get a blank check, especially when they come from these tony private schools.

Charles
April 11 2007, 6:27PM

I never believed the Duke case I saw it as a 3 ring circus of opportunity by a black woman. These young men were paraded around in the media as the modern day Klan and there was nothing to prove their guilt. I seriously doubt that they planned all of this and covered their bases...so again I do believe them and I hope that they steer clear of the law and media for the rest of their natural lives.

Don Imus, wow that is quite something to attack these women on national airwaves. He should be fired for his actions as it is not enough to read a scripted letter of sorrow and regret. Don Imus should simply be man enough to pick up his things and walk out the door and say, "thanks for the memories". These women should not allow themselves to be a part of this, they should not have taken part in the media circus as it is not their fight and should not have to listen to his words now just as much as then.

curious887
April 11 2007, 8:14PM

I had my doubts about the Duke case for a long time. The story just changed too much. But I think there were racial components. Like the article says, it was reported that some racial comments were made. Of course that doesn't mean these guys should go to jail for a rape they didn't commit. But I guess I agree with Charles. This seemed like one woman's cry for attention or something. Maybe she was pissed because of the racial name calling. I don't know.

Imus? I'm all about forgiving but I think it would set a good example if his ass was fired. But even if he is not, at least the response to his comments will put and others on notice that you can't dis black women like this and not expect serious consequences. I bet he'll think twice next time he comes out of his mouth with something stupid.

Luke
April 11 2007, 8:15PM

What it tells me is that its odd that Faux news is spending all day with the Duke rich boys story, and hardly a peep about the Imus slur or his getting canned. Race, class and money will always win out over what they seem to love to say, "America land of the brave, home of the free." That fine line of white men and black women is still as strong in 2007 as it was in 1807, and rich white men still think they can demean black women at their pleasure and without any consequences. And even though from most accounts, black women are the least desired, along with Asian men for marriage, they sure still seem to hold power over these white men and their demented fantasies, along with those vile, self hating, hateful "rappers" who really hate black women.

The only reason Imus was canned, which I don't think he should have been is they started losing money via big name sponsors. I think he should have kept his job, he actually seemed humbled and could have done some good from the evil.

Ray
April 11 2007, 8:38PM

The Duke case is interesting to me on many levels. One way is why would 40 white young men, want 2 black female strippers at there party. When you 'place and order' for strippers, you know exactly what color, size, age, etc...where have they learned to that it is alright to treat black women only as sex objects?

The Imus case I find it interesting that so-called 'black leaders' have screamed for Imus' head. Now what happens, we have a whole generation of young blacks who say and speak worst things to each other every single day. Not that it makes what Imus did anyless right....but our problems are so much larger than Imus. The people who create so called art which screams of self-hatred, sexism, homophobia, and yes racism still don't get it!! It's really so sad.

JayC
April 11 2007, 9:34PM

Those "innocent" Duke men received far more special treatment than the innocent black men and women and poor men and women who are convicted and imprisoned each day. Only when privileged, white men are "wrongly accused" does anyone take notice.

ricardo
April 11 2007, 10:00PM

I see that MSNBC has dropped Don Imus' show. Now we'll see how serious people like Al Sharpton are about having respect for black woman. Tomorrow I expect Al Sharpton and all others on this site who believe black women are
dehumanized by being called 'hos' to be in front of record companies insisting that 50 Cent and others who call women bitches and hos lose their contracts.

If words have the power to hurt, it shouldn't matter who said it, black or white.

Javier Santiago
April 11 2007, 10:31PM

Keith, your framing of the two worldviews is ridiculously narrow. Perhaps it is possible to think racism is still a major problem in society, yet still realize that the Duke case reflects that anyone can be falsely accused of a crime. People were quick to rush to judgment in Durham because the story provided by the purported victim fit a convenient narrative, fell into stereotypes about athletes, rich youth, white males, and Duke students. Perhaps, some of us need to admit our prejudice against athletes, rich youth, white males, and Duke students and realize that it tainted our ability to judge this case in an objective and narrative manner. Prejudice is wrong no matter who the bias is against.

bubba
April 11 2007, 10:31PM

It's unfortunate that big breaking news in these cases emerged on the same day. Just as Imus is raked over the coals for his shenanigans, now the Duke players get exonerated. Already, the white-owned and operated media is questioning whether the black community condemmed them unjustly. Just the contrast they need to balance the sting of their golden boy getting fired. Not that I want people in jail for crimes they didn't do.

cmoney
April 11 2007, 10:47PM

In the end, it looks like justice prevailed in both cases. The racist Don Imus got canned and the slime bag Duke Lacross players were exonerated. Although they have been declared innocent of the rape charges, let's not forget that they hired two Black strippers to perform at their all white party. Not exactly upstanding young men. I was very doubtful of the rape story to begin with. I figured the "ladies" just didn't get paid as they expected. Of course, when I said this to the P.C. crowd, everyone assumed I was some kind of sexist, as if hookers don't cry rape when they don't get paid. Some folks over at Pam's House Blend owe me an apology! Anyway, MSNBC is still without honor in my book. They should have fired Imus last week. They suddenly "found Jesus" after all of his sponsors pulled out. They are about money, not decency and I don't intend on watching MSNBC much anytime soon.

Mitch
April 11 2007, 11:00PM

I don't think we've heard the last or black word on what really happened in the Duke case. I'd appreciate hearing what happened from black folks in N.C. who know the case. My feelings are that the black woman was paid to disappear and keep quiet.
I have only heard the point of view of the white athletes.

Andy
April 11 2007, 11:40PM

The rich white boyz got off the hook, and will now go and get their $100,000 a year jobs,Fox news will make sure of that, and will say their lives are "ruined." People of color and poor whites get shafted by the justice system in this country every day. While, I don't want to see anyone railroaded with a crooked justice system, this case is actually kind of funny to me, they wanted what Imus called a "ho" and got more than they bargained for, a total nut case in stiletto heels, I guess they won't be buying and watching those vile rap cd's videos anymore, all that wanna be thug for a minute, and smug smirks are now gone.

And, one thing is for sure, they will never hire a black stripper, or any other black person to even mow their lawns!

marius
April 12 2007, 3:54AM

1)Along with those vile, self hating, hateful "rappers" who really hate black women.

2)Tomorrow I expect Al Sharpton and all others on this site who believe black women are
dehumanized by being called 'hos' to be in front of record companies insisting that 50 Cent and others who call women bitches and hos lose their contracts.

****We have some how lost our damn minds as a race. I/m speaking of blk men and women, look at what we have to lead us into the next generations to come, hardly nothing but numb minded bling, bling fools. Now these people (wht people) have now defined us by only what have placed into terms of endearment. I THINK WE WILL BE HEARING A LOTS MORE OF THE LIKES OF IMUS'S TO COME. IF WE DON'T CLEAN UP THE NEGATIVE SPIRTS SEEN AND DISPLAYED AMONG OUR YOUTH AND GROWNUPs ALIKE VIA MAINSTREAM MEDIA --- BITCHES,NIGGAS AND HO's are money making commodities now. That's where most of these white people hear this mess being said in mainstream media, and we hve the gall to be in rage!!!!!!!!

VERB
April 12 2007, 4:01AM

What's the comparison? These are unrelated so I'll address each separately. The Duke case was shaky from the jump. I hate false rape cases becuz they tend to make ppl question real ones. This is a grave injustice. As for Imus, he has the right to say anything he wants, no matter how idiotic/racist/sexist, but when he abuses his 1st Amendment right, he should pay. Now that Al & Jesse have put the heat on, they should appoint a few ppl to insure that Imus is removed & focus on misogyny & homophobia in rap/R&B. Leaning on the rappers/singers is the WRONG way to go. Free speech protects them & banning words is simply stupid. Hitting the TV & radio stations and their sponsors is the way to go. When W/we start bangin' pockets, mofo's will have a different tone (as MSNBC). W/we can't change the way ppl speak but W/we can change what TV & radio puts in rotation. Then when these rappers/singers are preparing for their next album, they'll re-think the lyrics since they know BS won't be tolerated or put in rotation.

Luke
April 12 2007, 9:44AM

VERB, that are related as two things that have never mixed and will get this country tiled up more than anything else, white men and black women, just like it will with white women and black men, OJ comes to mind. It is a divisive issue, always ha, always will be.

As for Sharpton and Jackson, I want them in from on record labels with their protest, Viacom for BET and its trash, and MTV for those silly minstrel shows, sorry, reality. Until they and every other black person takes back all these negative stereotypes this sort of stuff will happen.

Imus is one man, but, there are millions who agree with him, and sadly, all the young black women and men who are in college, holding down jobs and doing the right thing are swept up into this debate, and go unnoticed in the time of Fiddy, that I love New York Chick, and all the other nasty trash that isn't a true representation. Once these people figure out they can make a living off of fools willing to coon for the camera, they will.

Luddite
April 12 2007, 9:54AM

Ray: you stated "where have they learned to treat Black Women as sex objects"? Valid question with an obvious answer: check out the myriand of rap music in which Black men denigrate Black women to be nothing but bitches and whores. As for the videos well, many young Black women in those videos do their best to live up to that negative sterotype. Black women literally gave birth to the Human Race and this is how our hip hop and rap "artists" treat them, and teen age boys/young men of all races are listening to that message.

My guess is that these Duke athletes see ALL women as sex objects to be used and discarded. Blue hit it right on the head: athletes running amok without consequences because they athletes and can get away with it.

Troy
April 12 2007, 10:09AM

Money is a powerful drug! Duke coharts: "Now that that's over, where's the next party??" TOGA!!

Derrick from Philly
April 12 2007, 10:17AM

For centuries black men have been castrated, hung, and burned alive because of false accusations of rape by white women. I don't give a damn about those racists Duke Lacrose players or their bigoted, self-centered parents. I remember Leslie Stalls piece on Sixty Minutes about the Duke Lacrose trash--how they suddenly became their parents' "boys" instead of men (which is what they were when the sex party occured). Hire your own kind for your jock sex parties!

The black voters of the Duke University area owe that District Attorney their support in whatever office he runs for in the future. He did what they wanted him to do--he risked his career doing what they wanted him to do.
The funny thing is the Duke bastards were all Yankees--aint that funny? Northern white people aren't any different than Southern white folks...maybe worse.

No white person is going to make me feel bad about this situation--I'll remind them of the many Emmit Tills in American history.

JaredW
April 12 2007, 10:26AM

What if a all-black basketball team hired black female strippers? or if they hired white female strippers? So what! The boys were not accused of not being "upstanding gentlemen: (I have seen much worse behavior from some black frats at my university). The issue at hand is that this woman accused 3 men of rape, the prosecution did not have a case, and the charges were dropped. We only cry "Racism!" or "Classism" when the perpetrators are white, and even when whites are the victims of false accusations, we STILL find some arcane reason to find fault with them. True, having money (whether you are black OR white--paging O.J. and Kobe) does help you out. But let's stop acting as if blacks are always right and whites are always wrong. If anything, this case illustrates the divided between the haves and have-nots.

James
April 12 2007, 10:45AM

I had just written about this on my blog, but something else I've been thinking about (as a resident of TN) is that I haven't seen the Lady Vols coach, Pat Summit, or teammembers put out any statement about how disgusting, racist and misogynistic Imus' remarks were.

MidwestGuy
April 12 2007, 10:54AM

Luddite..I'm gonna do a couple re-reads of your post because I'm sure I am misinterpreting your words. Surely, Surely, you can't be suggesting that a 60 something year old WHITE man learned how to objectify black women from RAP music. I'm assuming that you meant that in totally different way? If not then that is a very white-washed, assed backwards way of thinking.

*Let me read again*

Luddite
April 12 2007, 11:12AM

Midwest Guy:

You're right, old white men don't need hip hop or rap to objectify women. But at least they didn't have misogynist music with titles like "Bitches Ain't Shit" to affirm and encourage that behavior. In case you don't remember teenagers are quite impressionable and usually desperately want to fit in with the crowd.

Lois
April 12 2007, 11:22AM

Now, James, that is interesting, I wonder why the silence from the TN ladies?

As for the rich white boys getting off, they got a taste of what black men suffered and still suffer from, guilty without a reason. Sorry, not one shred of sympathy for these arrogant rich kids, and lets not foget, the one is a gay basher too.

And, poor 400 year old Don Imus, he'll bounce back, FOX news will take him, since he says what thier fans like and beleive anyway.

You all have a great day!

MidwestGuy
April 12 2007, 11:25AM

Imus is almost half a century beyond teenage years. So he is far from an "impressionable" guy who "learned" to think of black women in such a way from hip-hop. That's not a valid nor reasonable argument.

AT
April 12 2007, 12:31PM

Keith-why can't it be both. black women are denigrated by society and that white men can be victimized by the "political correctness". It almost sounds as if you are saying there can only be A or B. You of all people should know there is a spectrum of situations/people on this earth and holding a one dimensional view is what is wrong with our world today.

Luke
April 12 2007, 1:06PM

I disagree, black women have no power in this country, whereas, white men are the power of this country from DC to Wall Street, to local cites and counties.

PC? I don't think that's the route to go, as it only festers the already huge issues of racism, sexism and homophobia and makes it seem like this is a land of fairness and equality. This is no longer a civilized society, its just out of control where slurs are endorsed and laughed at until the pain inflicted shows the true colors of this country. Imus this month, next month someone else. I'm one of those who wants to know where you stand abut me being, black, being gay etc., don't sugar coat it at all, be it Don Imus, George Bush, Rudy Guilaini or the old white lady next door, who as she has got to know me can't believe that black men can be so nice as to bring her flowers when she is sick, LOL. Say what you really feel.

Derrick from Phlly
April 12 2007, 1:45PM

Jared W: You got me thinking, and that's what I guess these blogs are supposed to do. Maybe it's misogyny (more so than racism) that really makes me hate these straight guys with their stupid parties where they hire strippers. And the girls! I'd be scared to death to dance naked in a house full of savages drunk with alcohol-- the testosterone smellin' beasts! And no, I don't like the male strippers at gay settings either. But then I feel like a hypocrite (and a slight misogynist, myself) because I own DVDs that show one female and fifty'eleven fools having sex. But I only watch them because of the variety of guys (often in physical positions which they'd never perform in real life--especially if they knew a homo was watching them). Maybe our whole society's full o' hypocritical shit.

Ray
April 12 2007, 3:07PM

"Luddite..I'm gonna do a couple re-reads of your post because I'm sure I am misinterpreting your words. Surely, Surely, you can't be suggesting that a 60 something year old WHITE man learned how to objectify black women from RAP music. I'm assuming that you meant that in totally different way? If not then that is a very white-washed, assed backwards way of thinking.

*Let me read again*"

Don Imus was very open in the past about liking rap acts. He is a big fan of Enimen, Nelly, Shoop....so don't think that he has not been exposed to this through rap music. I live in the South I have never, ever heard a 'white person' use the word nappy! Think about it!

MidwestGuy
April 12 2007, 3:32PM

Ray? You gotta be joking. Can u name ANY rap album that has used "nappy" in their lyrics? It is absolutely foolish for you to suggest that the term NAPPY derived from the hip-hop community. OMG..you have to be kidding me. I'm from the south as well and heard the term "nappy" way before hip-hop came on the scene. OMG..you just can't be serious w/that one.

Do u think that Strom Thurmond loved black people because he had a black child too? Is there still Santa Claus? Tooth Fairy? How about Big Foot?

Judge: Well sir why did you shoot that black man?

Defendant: Well your honor, I figured that it'll be ok because anger and agression came from the black community. I mean they kill each other all the time.

Judge: Ok...case dismissed!

saint james
April 12 2007, 3:49PM

The Duke Lacrosse Players hired strippers and were told that their preferences for blond white girls would be honored. Instead 2 black women showed up. Some of them wanted to send them away but the majority ruled so the young women stayed. I recall reading this very early on in a Carolina newspaper on-line months ago.

curious887
April 12 2007, 4:38PM

Interesting, Saint James because I remember reading the Duke boys asked for Latina women. And when two black women showed up they were going to send them away but chose not to. But does it really make a difference? Once the black women showed up, they invited them to stay. They could have sent them away but didn't.

Aaron
April 12 2007, 4:38PM

Who are you people? Do any of you know the history of WHEN Black women were made to be sex objects? Mental abuse is REALLLL PEOPLE! Sure I or any of you whose LIGHT went on at some point can just say stop treating, acting, being this way or that way but realistically deprogramming will need to identify the SOURCE and progression of the disease initially racism and but now called nihilism, self destruction, self hate or whatever. No the white man does not MAKE me hate myself but a very strategic systemic structure of oppression has progessively taught generations of our people to hate ourselves and in the case of too many of these responses defend our oppressor and overidentify the fault of our own. White people will defend white people WE DONT NEED TO DO IT!!! A Black female stripper says she was RAPED by WHITE males in NC and NO ONE ASKED WHAT the HELL really happened. SHE WAS DRUGGED and RAPED AND BLAMED THE MOST FAMILIAR FACES. HER PARTNER WAS PAID TO LIIIEEEE. WAKE UP!!!!!

abu
April 12 2007, 5:49PM

Keith, there is a third view. As a gay black man from Texas, I do believe that racism is a major problem in this society and the Rutgers incident demonstrates that black women were horribly denigrated by society. And I do feel that the Duke case is a single incident enacted by a misguided woman.

But I have to admit I wanted those men to be guilty so that the first point of black women being denigrated could be further proven. I wanted those white guys to pay. But if they are innocent, then they ARE victims, and those of use who wanted to see them fall should apologize.

J
April 13 2007, 1:58AM

It seems like every other day a white teen claims that a young black man(her boyfriend)raped her, and these men lose everything. Marcus Dixon would be fighting off his cellmate(unless he's "freaky")right now if it weren't for Oprah. It's sad that people are so quick to dismiss that woman(so what she's an ass clapper), but these baby whores need only point a finger.

Every single time a black person sings or writes a song there are about a million books, articles, and programs about how "evil nigra music" is destroying the world, so I have a hard time swallowing the double standard pill especially when more and more of US are attacking our music.

Also, do people really believe that 50 and Jay Z f*cking INVENTED misogyny?

Wow.

Chad
April 13 2007, 4:04AM

Ok, let's be clear about something while the Duke players may not be "gulity" of rape they are far from up standing gentlement. At the very least they are guilty of Misogyny and racism (let's not forget the racist comment's that were hurled at the dancers) also while I am not an expert when it comes to ordering exotic dancers I have to assume this is one time when time you place your order buy, color, age, size, etc-so so when 40 plus white guys order 2 black girls you can rest assurred it is not for a Black History Month Celebration. Come People Get Real-Let's also not forget that one of the guys was on probation for "gaybaiting" in D.C.- Just because you put a suit and tie on them does not make them a choir boy

VERB
April 13 2007, 11:01AM

I know folks are angry but face it, there was NO EVIDENCE. How can NC prosecutors make charges stick with no evidence? It's impossible, immoral and illegal. I'll admit, I wanted those guys to be guilty simply becuz false rape allegations damage future victims of real rape cases. It's true that privileged (and sometimes not-so-privileged) White America gets away with so much that it's sickening, but if these boys were Black and the state of NC refused to drop charges after having NO EVIDENCE, then W/we'd be trying to turn the NC upside down (and rightly so). So where's the fairness? Just cuz W/we are treaded upon on a hourly basis, doesn't mean that W/we throw O/our common sense and honest values out the window cuz things didn't work out they way W/we wanted them to. This whole scenario is extremely sad becuz EVERYBODY loses---the accuser, the witness, the accused, the families for both sides and the prosecutors. My heart and prayers go out to everyone involved.

Aaron
April 13 2007, 11:37AM

Would all of you apologists "Fiddlers" stop standing up for white people in the name of righteousness. Its disgusting you will continue to be disrepected as long as you dont see you are disrespected because you dont protect your own first. "Pure" white girls have hollered rape forever against nigga's with no fear of their credibility.

WHY WOULD A BLACK FEMALE STRIPPER holler RAPE against WHITE BOYS IN COLLEGE???? SHE PICKED THE WRONG FACES. YOU NEGROES ARE NOT THINKING OR STUCK ON STUPID.

DJ Black Adam
April 13 2007, 1:34PM

People, ya'll wrong as two left shoes.

This case should have never been made, she may BELIEVE she was raped, but the evidence does not support that. LET’S REVERSE THE SITUATION HERE: If a group of young Black college students were accused of raping a White stripper, and these guys were being railroaded to jail by a corrupt opportunist prosecutor who had NO EVIDENCE of a crime, but was running it threw anyway, what would you all be saying?

You all know what you would be saying. You would be saying as I would, that situation would be unacceptable and we would call for that prosecutor to be removed and maybe even as far as ask for charges to be filed on the lady perpetrating such a fiction.

It’s time we stop supporting people just because they happen to be BLACK, this case wasn’t Kosher from the jump, her story had more holes in it than a golf course in Scotland.

Mitch
April 13 2007, 6:55PM

I want to know what they are saying in the barber shops and beauty 'parlors' in NC.

Monica
April 14 2007, 10:51AM

As a black, hetero woman, I'm appalled at our images. They have such spiraling consequences. Duke case & Imus.

All these white men have no respect for black women. Thus nappy head hos comment. But the media potrays them as victims. Jesus - take the wheel. Give me a break white people refuse to accept their responsibility this madness.
70% of all rap is bought by whites. We may create this filth but they buy it up like candy.

I'm tired of black folks defending Imus. Imus has been spewing hate speech for years. Have any of you research some of the stuff he says. He's a shock jock. His time was due. You live by shock, you die by shock. One less redneck, HOMOPHOBIC, racist who does not have a platform - GOOD!

The Sanity Inspector
April 14 2007, 9:23PM

If you believe that racism is a major problem in society, you may conclude that the Rutgers incident demonstrates how black women are denigrated by society and dismiss the Duke incident as a mistaken accusation by one misguided woman.

On the other hand, if you believe that problems of racism are overblown in society, you may dismiss the significance of the Rutgers incident and embrace the findings in the Duke case to prove that white men are victimized by the "political correctness" of the left-wing rabble rousers.

Pencil me down for the latter.

I think that a better counterpart for the Duke case is the Kobe Bryant alleged rape case a couple of years ago. Rich privileged male has his way with a woman who later claims she was victimized. Her flooziness is established, which tips the scales when no crime can be proven to have occurred. Race is bruited about, even though it doesn't really have anything to do with the facts. I think that has more to do with the Duke case than the Imus thing does.

CreoleInDC
April 15 2007, 1:13PM

Verb for President.