There's Something About Isaiah

jared
January 19 2007, 12:25PM

i don't think its ever acceptable to use the word, just like the n-word. but, the one thing that has emerged from this debacle, is a huge racial divide, as if, i didn't know it already existed between blacks and whites, gay and straight.

over on jasmyne's board, it is an all out fight over the word, glaad and some racist drag queen.

jay
January 19 2007, 12:38PM

If a cast member called Isaiah a N----- he would have been all over television claiming racism. He is simple minded one dimension black man that has no sensitivity towards others. When you are in the public eye and you represent a race that is still fighting for equality you should be the last one making racist statements, he is pitiful.

deejay
January 19 2007, 12:57PM

well said, Jay! Well said.

Cadence
January 19 2007, 1:25PM

Jared, not every Black person on Jasmyne's site agrees with her stance, including me. In fact, many Black people have told her that she risks credibility by condoning IW's actions.

Shabaka
January 19 2007, 1:54PM

This is really strange. I think IW's apology was sincere and well intentioned. It is true that he didn't appear on TV a la Michael Richards to address the gay community, however that written apology alone is good enough in my opinion. I saw how he grabbed the microphone from Shonda Rhimes (Grey's Anatomy), but it all seemed like he was just kidding around. I don't think that statement in itself should be taken seriously, however the use of the word faggot a second time wasn't smart on his part. That's just my opinion.

Rockinrob
January 19 2007, 1:55PM

All of this over the word "faggot". Give me a break people.

Not to say that the word cannot be interpreted as offensive, but hell, how many words are there that are used on a daily basis that could be interepreted the same way...depending on who says them, the tone in which it is said, and who is interpreting what was said.

And stop putting the whole of the black community on IW's back. He's just one brother among millions!

I simply don't identify myself as "faggot" and thus, don't take offense because I don't feel he (or anyone who may use the word) was talking about me. I feel the same about the word "nigger" and trust me when I tell you, I am in the hue of the dark-skinned brother, yet I don't take offense to the "N-word" either because I don't identify myself as such.

When I learned not to internalize/personalize every negative word that could be used to describe me by other people is when I became free. I refuse to embrace the ignorance of others. I KNOW WHO I AM!

Just my opinion

Andres Duque
January 19 2007, 1:58PM

Regarding contradictions between the apology and Washington's claims that he never uttered the word in the first place: The statement seems like an attempt to cover all grounds and sounds more like something that was drafted by his managers / publicists rather than Isaiah himself, considering his recent statements.

Regarding the Golden Globe statements: Having seen them on television, it still seems to me as if Washington was trying to make light of the previous incident in front of the back-stage reporters in a way that obviously came out as awkward and backfired big time - specially the "I love gay, I wanted to be gay, please let me be gay" stuff.

It certainly ads another level to the scenes between Washington and Knight in "Grey's Anatomy" - I was cringing last night when Burke was telling George he could only pray for him and his father.

I don't think he should be fired from the show.

anotherbrother
January 19 2007, 1:58PM

i'd like to second what 'jay' said! like it or not he is a "public figure" on a highly successful program no-less and unfortunately for him (i.e. black man) something like this doesn't look good. you would think he'd be 'smarter' than that!

jared
January 19 2007, 2:03PM

cadence,well, i don't know how someone's credibility can be tarnished for asking a question based on an obvious double standard. if she is risking her credibility, will glaad risk its by condoning by its silence the drag show in black face? but, there is where the two separate, she has and imo, still has credibility on gay and people of color issues, glaad, only on issues that seem to affect gays who are white and has not one shred of credibility in my book on anything. i try to steer clear of racial issues in the gay world as i'm old enough to recall quite a few slights they dished out, but, on this one she is right.

i don't agree with the slur thrown out by washington, and yet, i don't agree with some of the nasty posts that are saying a black face comic are socially acceptable. sometimes you have to take a stand, and buck the trend, and it seems jasymne has the back bone and herewith all to do just that.

i realize that some will try and smear her, but, she seems strong enough to deal with it.

J
January 19 2007, 2:38PM

This was an unfortunate incident for T.R. as well as Isaiah. I wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of that, and Isaiah seems like a suspect man struggling with his own issues with sexuality.

The fact is, now more than ever, the terms "gay" and "fag" are used more than "and" and "the." I don't know if this is really homophobia so much as it is ignorant pop culture that will disappear in a few years.

The white gays that are foaming at the mouth really need to be punched in the throat. I agree with many who say,"Where's the outrage over Shirley Q."

This all goes back to the issue of white supremacy and the fact that it's okay to dehumanize black people, but how dare anyone so much as look at a white man funny. No one would be rallying around this man if the same words were uttered and the races were reversed. Look that the overwhelming support for MICHAEL RICHARDS.

Dr. T
January 19 2007, 2:51PM

How can anyone compare calling someone an "N" with using the term "f?" Yes- I agree both are hurtful. Anyway.. the point I wanted to make is that the white gay folks (perezhilton.com) and others, are asking for his head. I've heard no dialogue from the black gay people... It's very interesting...

Martin Luther King jr
January 19 2007, 2:57PM

you cant say the same about faggot that you can say a racial slur because faggot carries more than one meaning
such as a bundle of twigs paper etc fag in english slang a cigarette

chandra
January 19 2007, 3:26PM

Like Jay said, if the other guy had been heard calling him the "n-word" people would be calling for a boycott of "Greys Anatomy." It's a double-standard that clearly exists in our society: it's bad to be racist, but okay to be homophobic and say homophobic things. Rememeber the DMX song that where he basically talks about him gaybashing "fags"? Well, all I had to do was turn on the radio to hear that, because it's considered an acceptable form of discrimination. Unfortunately, a similar incident happened to me in grad school. Some instructor I TA'ed for said some "off-color" joke imploring the play-on-words "chiggers and chegroes." After I let her know I was offended by the remark, she sent me a letter of apology in which she, like IW, felt the need to say she was sorry that she said "chiggers and chegroes." For that to come out of her mouth again, made me feel that she didn't understand at all.

Cadence
January 19 2007, 3:35PM

Jared, she's jeopardizing her credibility by having a double standard of her own. Jasmyne has a history of this. I remember not too long ago, Louis Farrakhan made some racially and sexually offensive statements about Jewish people in Hollywood. When Jasmyne wrote about it on her site, she omitted the rascist language, and just focused on how Black gay people aren't in charge in Hollywood. But yet, she wants White gay people to police other White gay people.

As for this situation, she mis-reported the facts. She doesn't even mention that this happened three months ago, IW initial apology and admittance that he said something that he never says, or the fact that in his latest apology he admits to repeating the word. She also assumes that TR is lying, even though she comes down on those who assume IW is lying.

Greg
January 19 2007, 3:46PM

Looks like Isaiah Washington forgot that rule that most of us learn as little black kids, don't talk back to the police and don't say anything about a white person too loud to irk them, even in 2007, especially those who sign your paycheck.

I think that he is a drama queen on a television show filled with drama queens, and hence the slip of the tongue. But, I think that he has more or less ruined his career in Hollywood, he may stay on this show, but, with Glaad and the rest of the gay white Hollywood mafia, he is kaput for other projects. But the black glbt's have been classy in this sad situation, showing it for what it is.

And, why nothing from them on SQL debacle? Have they ever said anything? Or the so called black leaders? Or, is it not worthy as other racist acts, or are they too afraid of the Hollywood gays? But the black glbt's have been classy in this sad situation, showing it for what it is, a double standard.

curious887
January 19 2007, 3:47PM

These posts are very interesting. I have followed this controversy since it first emerged last October. I was surprised that it did not get more play in the black community. In any event, I think it was very insensitive of IW to use the word faggot and I'm glad he has apologized, agreed to meet with GLAD and says that in the future he won't do this again. For those who don't see this word as hurtful, great for you! But as a black gay man, I find it hurtful and indicative of the homophobia/dislike for gays in our community. But I also agree with everyone who says that some white gays are hypocrites. If TR as a gay man had called IW a nigger, the gay community would be defending TR just like white folks did with M. Richards. I can hear it now, "Oh come on, you people are so sensitive. Get over it." I'm not sure what it will take for white gays to deal with the racism in the gay community. The sad part is I used to care. Now, I just find myself saying, well that's white folks for you.

edwin greene
January 19 2007, 3:59PM

I recall seeing Isaiah for the first time in Spike Lee's movie "Get on the Bus". The movie concerned a group of black men and their various interactions while riding on a bus to the Million Man March.

There was a black gay couple riding on the bus in the movie. Isaiah was 1/2 of the black gay couple. I can't remember the other guy's name but I remember that they played the couple so well and so non-stereotypically. I liked IW after seeing him in that movie and became a fan of his work.

To make a long story short, however, if he made the original slur (and from what I've read about this, I think he probably did) he should twist in the wind for a while.

jared
January 19 2007, 4:48PM

thanks cadence for the info,but, my question would be, is jasmyne a journalist or an activist? is her blog her life? or does she do it on the side from her regular job? i have never posted on her blog, but, do read it as i like the pro black gay approach she takes.

the iw scandal, that's how is interesting on many different fronts to me, it has race and sexual orientation in it, both of which stir emotions out of control. she seems to have said she made a mistake, and it has fallen on deaf ears with some of the posters. and, then you have some of the SQL crowd just going off as if they are at a jamboree with their nonsense about how he is applauding black women, which i think we all know is an out and out lie.

i think that we have to be savvy enough to find the real facts, and the real reasons behind an issue, not what news outlets and groups want you to believe. if, the gay establishment wants to make inroads with blacks, not just gay ones, they need to make a stand and denounce all bigotry.

SAD
January 19 2007, 5:04PM

YOU CANNOT COMPARE USING THE WORD NIGGER AND FAGGOT AS ONE IF REFERRING TO SEXUALITY AND THE OTHER TO RACE - TWO DIFFERENT AREAS -

YES, THE WORD SHOULD NEVER HAVE BEEN USED, BUT THE UPROAR is MOST CONCERNING TO ME. I FIND IT ODD WHITE GAY and BLACK GAY personalites immediately jump to conclude what is true and is not true.

PEOPLE CALL ME FAGGOT AT WORK, BUT I HAVE NO UPROAR, BECAUSE I'M NOT WHITE NOR FAMOUS!

IT IS SAD, BECAUSE WE HAVE NOT PROGRESSED - IT ALWAYS REVERTS TO RACE - HE CALLED HIM A FAG, NOT A PECKERWOOD, HUNKY......therefore comparison by BLACKS AND WHITE's concerning NIGGER are absurd!

Anonymous
January 19 2007, 5:10PM

"....he should twist in the wind for a while."

That was uncalled for considering the impression it gives of a black man being lynched. It was just uncalled for. Then, I am not surprised by the racist overtones this issue has taken considering the number of white gay men and bloggers going after Isaiah, the same bloggers and white gay men who remain hypocritically silent in ignoring the racism in the gay community.

Out of certain contexts, the words "f" and "n" word have no business being used and cannot be reclaimed as somekind of warped sense of empowerment. To defend their use this way is beyond shameful and an offense to the memory of those murdered under the shouts of the word.

Cadence
January 19 2007, 5:30PM

Jared, one more thing, we can't ask for justice for ourselves, if we aren't willing to give it to other people. It is hypocritical of Jasmyne to put down Charles Knipp, but excuse Washington. We aren't going to get the rights that we deserve by denying other people their rights.

jared
January 19 2007, 6:52PM

cadence, you are all too right with that idea. but,sadly, it does not always work that way. i for one have no use for anyone who due to a lack and grasp of a situation throw out a slur, be it racial, sexual, or homophobic. people have to be held accountable for what they say, and sorry isn't a magic bullet to end it.

iw's slur reminds me of the one rosie o'donnell did with asians, they came out and called her on it, she danced around it with some silly poem, but, she still didn't seem to get it, she hurt them with words. iw, who has been busted twice for the same thing, still does not get it, words hurt. what is in a persons heart and soul isn't going to be cured with a public humiliation.

and, there seems to be a polarization between white gays and blacks over it as well, does not bode well for the future.

the riff and nasty taste will be around for a while, and, the only thing i see as a outcome is the religious right of off the wall black people of faith, will use this to their advantage.

johnosahon
January 19 2007, 7:14PM

At the beginning, i taught it was very important, but now i don't know anymore. That's the way i am though, when everybody starts picking on that person (even kkkramer), i begin to wonder which of the picker have done the same or something similar.

Nicole
January 19 2007, 8:32PM

@ curious

The issue didn't get much play in the black community because black folks don't want to admit that we can be as homophobic and intolerant as the majority culture. I'm speaking as a heterosexual black woman who is confronting her own issues. Initially, I sided with IW, but now, I definitely believe he was being offensive. Tolerance and acceptance is key. Let's keep the lines of communication open.

cadence creed
January 19 2007, 8:38PM

Isaiah has nothing to apologize about. As long as white gay men CONTINUE to call black gays niggers, he can call them faggots as much as he wants. If it were a black gay man he was calling faggot, I would be upset, but...

and, who cares? america isn't going to stop calling all gays, regardless of color, that word. this is all about politics. It's much easier to get the rest of the world to look down on a black man for using the work fag word. it's just a simple fact that it's easy to black male bash. They are using this as their Rosa Parks moment. This wouldn't work at all if Isaiah were a white man, and this crap surely wouldn't have lasted this long.

PDQ
January 19 2007, 8:49PM

I think a key factor to consider is what context these words are said in. It's one thing to call another gay friend a "silly faggot" with a smile and a laugh, it's entirely another thing to say "fucking faggot" in anger with the intention of hurting someone. It's one thing for two black men to greet each other with some variation of the "N" word, but it's entirely another thing when Michael Richards says it in anger and with hate in his voice. And let's not even get into derogatory names that can be directed at italians, jews, lesbians, asians, etc. that wouldn't be acceptable under any circumstances.

To the best of my knowledge, Isaiah Washington is not gay, nor is Patrick Dempsey. And IW wasn't trying to be cute or funny when he (allegedly) wrapped his hands around Dempsey's neck and called him the "f" word.

Isaiah Washington opened his mouth and stuck his foot way deep into it at the Golden Globes. He needs to give serious thought about how he's going to move forward from here.

cmoney
January 19 2007, 9:07PM

People are injecting race into this situation when it is not what the controversy is about. Nobody called Isaiah Washington anything, much less a racial slur. HE is the offender here. Not only is he homophobic, but he is incredibly stupid and tactless. He deserves whatever repercussions to his career he suffers. He created a hostile work environment for his co-worker and others on the staff. He compounded the problem by lying about calling his co-star a faggot. Then he made matters worse by disrupting the celebration of the highlight of the careers of many of the cast meembers at the Golden Globes. I wouldn't want to work with such a fool. Would you? We need to stop making excuses for ignorant behavior just because someone is Black, like us. The fact that there are racists in Hollywood has nothing to do with him discriminating against his co-worker who has done nothing to him. Either you are for non-discrimination or you are not. Stop making excuses!

Chris
January 19 2007, 10:14PM

We need to stop excusing bigoted language, regardless of whether the person blasting it is black, white, or yellow.

Otherwise, we run the risk of being hypocritical.

Kevin
January 19 2007, 10:16PM

Thank you, cmoney. You have clearly stated what I was thinking myself.

Liquid Fonts
January 19 2007, 11:39PM

Washington was wrong if he called Knight a "faggot", there should be consequences of some sort.
However, the gay community groups involved in this like GLAAD are quite a ways away from achieving true equality for all lgbt's even within their own ranks. So, it's a bit surprising and a bit off putting to find that these so called gay activist groups have the authority to try this case in the name of all that is gay. These groups need to spend less time fighting PERSONAL BATTLES FOR MILIONAIRE CELEBRITES and more time figuring out and finding solutions to why millions of homosexual ppl in this country don't feel accepted in or supported by the so called "gay community" and why so many of those are people of color.

Steve
January 19 2007, 11:45PM

Jay got it right. Those who think there is a difference between the two words and the hate behind them are wrong. It's the same hate. Both are detestable. If you disagree, fine, but don't get pissed if someone uses one of those words on you, then.

Me - I get pissed off. Really pissed off. Washington should be disciplined.

j. brotherlove
January 20 2007, 12:10AM

Wow Steve, that's exactly what I was about to say. It's interesting to watch how people don't see that both words, when used as Isaiah Washington and Michael Richards used them, are offensive.

If it's your business to attract as many viewers and fans to your work then being offensive to any of them is just plain stupid.

Washington should be sanctioned if only for the fact that this happened on set. How many of you would sit around being called a faggot or nigger at work?

john
January 20 2007, 1:01AM

cmoney, you are profound, as always. everytime when i am here, i always look for your comments first: "let me see what cmoney this time". yes, it had nothing to do with color; it had soemthing to do with being nice or not nice. IW was not nice at all, and he happens to be a black man. as an actor, he is good looking, but i will not consider him beautiful. he is not.

chris-leo
January 20 2007, 1:01AM

i was reading thru the comments and waiting for someone to sum up my opinion.

cmoney?? you win. i couldn't have said it better.

joseph
January 20 2007, 1:23AM

Fire him and let's be done with it!

chicagoangel
January 20 2007, 1:57AM

I hate when people have to apologize for how they truly feel.

yeahisaidit
January 20 2007, 2:09AM

...the debate rages on, and indeed it's a complex and intense one...while no group of people is monolithic and there is no denying rampant racism within the gay community, it's no secret there's also a ridiculous amount of homophobia in the Black community, (and of course some amount of the reverse is also true)...this Grey's Anatomy thing is tragic the way it further damages the gay community's unity...think about it for a moment, there are more Black people in the gay community than gay people in the Black community...in other words, while the Black community can afford to ignore it's gay members, the gay community cannot blow off it's Black members, (or hispanic or asian for that matter...) the price of this tension is high. p.s.: as for those pissed about the SQL thing, should Madea, Wayans whitefaced white chicks, Dave Chapelle Show, etc. also merit public outrage?

john
January 20 2007, 2:57AM

Just a thought: What if IW were gay, TR were straight and TR said the same thing to IW, what IW would say and do? And what we would say here?

J
January 20 2007, 6:32AM

Patrick Downlow Dempsey must be happy. No one has seemed to stop and wonder why IW made that statement. People assume he's a homophobe and keep it moving.

I'm tired of hearing, "Well black comics make fun of white people all the time." I think there's a difference between saying, "You people can't dance," and "You people are subhuman."

Charles
January 20 2007, 8:36AM

As I gay black man I am disgusted that he is still on the show...if Patrick Dempsey or T.R. Knight or anyone else called him the N-word or some other offensive terms for blacks...they would be off the show in a heartbeat...it is shame that this was not done. If Washington is not smart enough to keep his comments to himself not once but twice and then LIE on national TV, he gets what he deserves. When a black man uses a demeaning word to another person or group, it is NO different than a white person and deserving of the same backlash received by Michael Richards and Mel Gibson. Blacks do not have permission to degrade another person and then cry, "well white people call us the N word". These words are all hurtful and should NOT be sanctioned.

deejay
January 20 2007, 9:02AM

I concur with the views expressed by Charles, Cmoney, and YeahIsaidit.

Like the Chicago house party shooting that left six men injured, this incident has also exposed some important community divisions about race, tolerance, homophobia, and the fitness (or lack thereof) of those who represent the INTERESTS our entire collective - not just gays - when stuff hits the fan.

IW's conduct should be condemned. PERIOD. The secondary issues regarding the inclusiveness of white organizations is not central to this immediate discussion.

What's needed,IMO, is a definitive statement that intolerance of any kind is not acceptable by people of color in the struggle for equality. Any other quid pro quo nonsense (re: SQL for instance) belongs behind the scenes.

Let's address the matter at hand and use the dialogue to build bridges. I thought leadership was about finding common ground and long range fixes.

Greg
January 20 2007, 9:55AM

I'm with you Liquid Fonts, this is a battle of multi-millionaires, so, I don't get why it is even news worthy. Sure IW was a boob and should be reprimanded, and now he's going to get canned, and now, everyone will have to walk around on tiptoes when dealing with white gays, which, is just what GLAAD seems to want.

I abhor homophobia as much as I do racism, but, sorry, the people at GLAAD are not out to fight injustice for all gays and lesbians, just those who look like them.

This will annoy the many posters here who seem to think that there is one day going to be this moment that all gays, no matter the color will unite against the vicious forces out there trying to put people into the closet and deny us civil rights, but, with groups like GLAAD selectively going for equality, I will remain out of anything they are for, as it will as it always have, reek of hypocrisy as they are doing with the SQL debacle.

Mike
January 20 2007, 12:32PM

As gay people we need to take the high road on this. Each and every one of us, gay/straight/any race/whatever is discriminated against in some form or another; to sit round carping about retribution is wasted time.

Why not use this incident as another door opener to acceptance of all people on the planet. I have certainly shot off my mouth b4 and I doubt there is any one out there who hasn't. Lets use this as a learning tool.

Liquid Fonts
January 20 2007, 12:38PM

Deejay, you can't realistically find common ground or fix problems that remain untold, unseen or ignored. You also cannot isolate these events from the social contexts of the lives of people who are watching since it’s so public and affects ppls perceptions of blacks and gays.

These are not side issues as you suggest, THESE ARE THE ISSUES. This Grey’s Anatomy debacle only serves to illustrate or reflect back onto us our values and concerns. And many people want to know why these gay activist groups appear so supportive of the entire “gay community’ on TV but come up short when the cameras are off.

yeahisaidit
January 20 2007, 1:22PM

...hey Greg, if I'm one of the posters you are refering to let me tell you I'm not annoyed with your comments, I'm intrigued and interested in much of the response here...so with the SQL thing, I'm not trying to high five GLADD or SQL, but I'm trying to be fair in a world that isn't, and believe it's a struggle 'cuz nothing in this world is perfect, for example, it's crazy that I could easily substitute "The Black Church" in place of GLADD in the last part of your statement and it would unfortunately read the same...the point is I can see they very thing I want to accuse someone else of in my own immediate community, (I'm Black and gay), realizing that the two (IMO) are much like two sides of the same coin, as I then react to the situation and try to figure out what I can do about what troubles me on both ends...that's all

nova
January 20 2007, 1:34PM

The real issues that a few all over the web have touched on are:

1. His work conduct. It's never cool to come out your mouth like that at your place of employment, whether the word is faggot, nigger, or wop. It's just unprofessional.

2. The cast of Grey's should be ashamed. All of this should've been handled behind the scenes. Getting in front of the camera with all these conflicting accounts says little about the unity of the cast. Just tacky.

3. I question if Isiah as a card-carrying phobe would've portrayed a gay character in Spike's "Get on the Bus". That doesn't make his slip any more tolerable, though.

curious887
January 20 2007, 1:50PM

I hope IW won't be fired. As I said earlier what he did was deplorable, but he has apologized and is even meeting with GLADD. If he were white and used the N word to refer to a castmate, I hope that I would be as forgiving if that white person also did what IW is now doing. Some of this may be him trying to save his job, but I'm hoping a bigger lesson comes from this. You can't open your mouth and make homophobic comments. It's no longer acceptable and you will pay a price at least in the larger white community. I still think many straight blacks could care less. I remember a number of years ago, Andy Rooney from 60 Minutes made disparaging comments about homosexuals. There was some uproar but basically, no one cared. Things have definitely changed and I think that's a good thing. I just wish it wasn't a brother who was at the head of this controversey because it makes things racial.

kriz
January 20 2007, 2:26PM

I don't think words like f*ggot and n*gger should be used in any context and people shouldn't be reclaiming these offensive words to be used positively. Does anyone feel uplifted if those words are used toward you by fellow blk & gay peeps? I've even had gay whites who used racist words torward me as a term of endearment.

Once people start getting into when it's ok to use these derogatory words, and who has a right to use them - things get messy.

For example, a while back there was a minor controversy about Jennifer Lopez using the N word in her song "I'm real", as many took offense to her using that word, yet Fat Joe uses the N word all the time in his song with no controversy. Some argued that J-LO has blended in with the mainstream so she shouln't use the word. There was some debate as to whether it's ok to use the n word if you are latino.

Imagine if Mariah Carey started using the N word in her songs, or a mixed blk/white, who could pass for white used the N word. Even Oprah? I

manchild1
January 20 2007, 2:30PM

In aggreement ,IW tarnished his image with me a little
with these antics..I had always thought him gay?
Now I look at him like any other homophope and that
ain't good.

Greg
January 20 2007, 4:32PM

Good question yeahisaidit! But, since I don't have a ounce of faith in the black church, and this from someone raised COGIC and whose Dad is a pastor and Mother an evangelist. I would say they both groups come up way short, and both need to realize, that blacks gas and lesbians areas human as the next person. Black gay men and lesbians are going to have to come out fighting full steam ahead, against both the black establishment and the white establishment, because, neither is going to have our collective backs as has been evidenced from the NYC beating death of a young black man to other issues of note.

This is one of the reasons why I think Jasymne Cannick is spot on with getting a protest against SQL, that club only sees green, and I have no problem with that as its a business, but, if they can go after IW, they can also go after SQL insulting black women in black makeup as a way to heal past injustices.

qtmia
January 20 2007, 6:17PM

ISAIAH WASHINGTON IS AN IGNORANT BLACK MAN ---HE IS PROBABLY GAY HIMSELF ...THE PEOPLE WHO ARE SOOO OUTRAGED AND USE SLUGS ARE MISERABLE PEOPLE. HE IS A PITIFUL EXCUSE FOR A MAN.

cmoney
January 20 2007, 6:55PM

I was reading another story about this incident and it turns out that IW outed his co-star by making his homophobic remark and it getting blown up in the media. He needs to apologize for that too. TR has a right to privacy and being an outed gay person in Hollywood is not necessarily good for one's career. How many out gay actors are cast as leading men with beautiful actresses? I can't think of any. Straight men are just recently being allowed to get away with performing in drag (Wesley Snipes) and in gay roles (Robin Williams--OK maybe he's not the best example!) without harming their careers, but unfortunately, Hollywood isn't so progressive as people think. How many out gay actors are cast as macho leading men?

Jason
January 20 2007, 7:30PM

T.R. is a faggot . . . a whining faggot at that. I have called white folk niggers because they were acting every negtive image that words brings about (in my mind). I typically don't use the word faggot but have used it for men who act lik pussies -- having nothing to do with their sexuality.

I think people give other peoples words too much power and in this case it just so happens the person using the "F" word is African American; I am waiting for someone to ask how I.W. would feel if someone called him a nigger. Unfortunately, he probably could answer from experience.

Tyrone
January 20 2007, 8:45PM

IW was out of line, and showed his ghetto butt at some stupid awards show, but, this witch hunt to have his head on a lambda platter is just as vile. Now, that Rosie has chimed in, herself, a well know woman of fairness, yeah right, he may as well get his resume typed, even though, I don't think he has a shot in Hollywood anymore.

As for this TR guy, who cares if he was outed? Its not as if he was in the closet to begin with. He is an actor, and was out and about West Hollywood while on the show, don't want to arouse suspicions as you are afraid of being outed? Don't be partying down at Rage, Mickey's or the Abbey on weekends with your man, when you know the photographers are out and about.

Sorry to come off as harsh and sour Cmoney, but, this whole thing is much ado about little. Words sting, and words hurt,but, that's part of life. And, 1) Washington is going to have to pay his mistake by getting blackballed and 2) This isn't going to make any straight man not use the word or anyone else.

Andrew
January 20 2007, 9:50PM

IW will find himself written off the show. ABC will use his behavior to trim the payroll budget.

Why can't the brother just show up to work and read his lines. Excuse the pun but "F those white folks" because they don't love you anyway!

Black men on primetime television are always angry anyways so he fits the picture perfectly.

Dr T
January 20 2007, 9:55PM

Reading some of these posts...Calling someone FAT, UGLY, Dumb, "not too smart", etc... are all hateful... so let's chastise and persecute them all. SOmetimes "people" are sooo sensitive. Well-- not everyone, just some "PEOPLE"......

KBJr.
January 20 2007, 11:44PM

This whole issue is just rather boring if you ask me...seems like the media just needs a new controversy to harp about until the next one comes along. Isaiah Washington using the word "faggot" just seems like a huge non-issue to me. So what! So maybe T.R. needs to grow a backbone and confront Isaiah instead of having McDreamy do it, or going on Ellen and studdering about it. Man up buddy. Now the world must get involved in a dispute that's really only between two men. The Gay Elite are now calling for Isaiah's head, and for what? What the hell business is it of their's or ours for that matter? Just seems much ado about nothing if you ask me. Company execs gotta be lovin' the PR.

Flo-Jo
January 21 2007, 12:33AM

Well, some of you may remember Isaiah's beautiful portrayal of a gay man in Spike Lee's excellent film Get On The Bus (A must see if you haven't). So this news is surprising to me, since he played the role with a certain level of sensitivity and non-stereotype. Who knows???? I hope he himself remembers his work in that in relationship to the community.

CPAPhD
January 21 2007, 9:09AM

@ Flo-Jo

I forgot about Get On the Bus. He did play that role. I was actually thinking about the movie when I was looking at info on Harry Lennix (who's in Stomp The Yard) and his role on Get on the Bus.

What I hope is that IW learns a lesson from all this. Should he be disciplined? Should he be an example? Does he represent the black community? Complex questions with no simple answers. Good stuff said in the above comments, which reflects the complex nature of this issue. We'll have to agree to disagree.

Darnell
January 21 2007, 10:16AM

First off, I think Washington was wrong and deserved to be reprimanded, by, ABC and in how they feel is the right way, not GLAAD. GLAAD has done what it and America loves, seeing a black man humbled and begging for his job. The problem I have with the GLAAD group, is that they are not as inclusive as they claim to be and its a joke that they would be demanding that he meet with them so they can teach him about tolerance and diversity, a huge joke.

And, to end my gripe, why is it that none of the same black gay bloggers are involved in that racist debacle the Liquor drag queen? This shows a riff in the black gay community since she seems to be the only one out there fighting that club and the comic. The slurs I have seen from fans of his show and the ones to fire IW on message boards proves, its still all about race, no matter what some think. All were out for the dance hall bigot, but, seem to be afraid to mention the white guy in black face, other than a woman who is right to be offended.

Mel Smith
January 21 2007, 5:21PM

Look, he apologize. Now lets move on to MORE important situations.

mike spade
January 21 2007, 5:35PM

all you dumb "SGL" idiots (aka "boykin freaks") are at it again making stupid comments. you have screwed this thread up, just like you did the chicago shooting.

running off at the mouth, while snapping your fingers at the same time, getting stuff all wrong. no wonder you are so LEFT BEHIND in the fight for equal rights. you just don't get it. i'm glad that all of the gay black men i know don't think like the majority of you. it helps me know that there are intelligent, smart, and worthy black gay men out there. not just "boykin freaks" who seek validation on this page.

Robert
January 21 2007, 5:53PM

Quick question: Would we be pondering whether this is "much ado about nothing or a real controversy" if the situation was reverse--if it were TR Knight using the n-word to deny his use of it?

Mel Smith
January 21 2007, 6:12PM

Again, I accept apologies and move on to other issues which are hurting us.

Darnell
January 21 2007, 7:11PM

TR Knight seems a little to passive to have the nerve to say the n-word, other than in a moving vehicle. Had he said it, I doubt, actually, I know that GLAAD, Ellen and Rosie and all the rest of that crowd would be mum on it, they only speak out for thier own.

Mel Smith
January 21 2007, 7:53PM

Everyone, Jasmyne has created a petition on her site. Please sign the petition and support Isaiah Washington's position at ABC network. He apologized for his remark and I think we should accept it. Although, we are homosexual people, we must also never forget that we have black skin and white people, GAY OR STRAIGHT, never let us forget that. They are going after him in such a manner because he is a person of color. If he were a white man, they would accept his apology and move on.

Mike_88
January 21 2007, 9:52PM

I don't think he should had said it, but this is really fetting a little out of hand if you ask me. I don't think Isaiah should lose his Job. I just hop this doesn't drag on for too long!!!

Mike spade may you explain yourself? I would love to hear you take on the situation as opposed to the "boykin freaks" whatever you call them???

Texas76132
January 21 2007, 10:53PM

I will not sign that petition. Isaiah Williams said what he meant and meant what he said: FAGGOT. Flo Anthony has reported that he has a history of fighting with his co-workers on other shows and she is as pro-black as anyone. If T.R. Knight said the n-word, it would have came out then. Stop crying wolf because you do a disservice to real victims of racism. Do you people know what racism is? A guy was just released from prison after 25 years for a crime he didn’t commit? Do you know the Scottsboro Boys? That is racism, not this stuff. Isaiah was wrong and needs to be dealt with. The only thing that ABC did wrong was let this issue fester instead of nipping it in the bud the way the NLF did when Joey Porter called Kellen Winslow, Jr a faggot. If the black gay community saves his butt, I want to see him at black a gay pride event, and not on the cover of Advocate Magazine the way most black stars do. He was gay for pay and his acting abilities do not mean that he is down with gay people.

Mel Smith
January 22 2007, 12:29AM

Texas, you are writing about mental racism. Please remember that racism come in various forms; forms such as hidden racism, mental racism or physical racism. Look, there are more bigger situations that are affecting us, worldwide. Earlier I made a phone call to the Nigerian Embassy in Washington D.C. That nation is about to start a mental genocide campaign against Nigerian homosexual people. When Keith Richards or 'Kramer' apologized, I also said that we need to move on. If people apologize, lets move on. When people do not apologize, that's when they should be disciplined. Right now, we need each other in 2007. Straight people have begin the new year by making us their target practice. Trust me, I also hate to be discriminated against by people who have the same skin color as me. However, in this world, people only see that you have a black skin color, before anything else. Believe me, when there is unity in our community, people would think before they try to disrespect us.

lanette
January 22 2007, 12:50AM

what does fag mean? why is this such a big deal. He's being treated like he killed somebody.

Liquid Fonts
January 22 2007, 4:02AM

This is old news to me but the real shame is that it took Knight being called a fag by a str8 black man to step up and suddenly decide to live an authentic life at the ripe age of 33. Dear God he should be Thankful!! Being called a faggot pulled him out of life long denial shadows and doubt and made him wanna fight for his identity. Knight is now free to really live!!! And even if he gets fired, Washington will be working with gay group mentioned earlier to hopefully cultivate within himself, a greater appreciation of the struggle against oppression and violence faced by the lgbt community.

I want to see photos of them cuping each others faces in hand soon.

chris-leo
January 22 2007, 5:58AM

LANETTE, "faggots" a.k.a. 'bundles of sticks' were used as firewood to burn male homosexuals, so eventually it morphed into the term to mean 'male homosexual.' it's an ugly term. that's the 'big deal,' kiddo.

LIQUID FONTS?? isaiah may be many things - wife beater (come on out, grace) and a photogenic, good actor. but he's left a wake of verbal and physical abuse on and off stages and television and film sets for years. and this wouldn't be his first time being fired or even restrained and/or escorted out by security. but you're right about one thing. T.R. Knight is indeed free. Now that Isaiah has freed T.R. from the bondage of the closet, one can only hope Isaiah can bust his own door down. DOCTOR, HEAL THYSELF.

now he's gonna meet with GLAAD. i'd love to be a fly on that wall. what a fuckin' mess. it must be tough to be Isaiah right about now.

Darnell
January 22 2007, 10:07AM

Good to see some voices of reasons with this ongoing silliness, Mel Smith and Liquid Fonts, you speak the truth, thank you for seeing it how it really is in the good old USA, its not about a 33 year old man being "outed."

@Chris Leo, a fly on the wall at that meeting, nah, I think we all know what's going to happen, he will sit there and all these white guys will tell him how wrong he is and that being a black man, he should realize how words hurt, mind you they probably use one that could hurt him. For his rage issues, which he seems to have, he should be seeing a therapist or be meeting with some of the outspoken activists of the black gay community, like Keith or Jasymne , not those short-sighted, one trick pony people at GLAAD with their limited ability to deal with any issues that involve gays of color in or out of the media.

Mikey--He Likes It
January 22 2007, 10:51AM

I'm disappointed in IW since he played 1/2 of a gay couple in Spike Lee's wonderful film GET ON THE BUS. He and his partner were the only gay men on that bus and if he recalled were subject to the name calling and vile homophobia of Flip (played by the talented Andre Braugher) and some other men on that bus. If anything I expected a bit more sensitivity on IW's part towards gay people since experiencing homophobia in that role. And why couldn't IW call Mr Knight and a**hole, douche bag, motherf***er or something like that if he were upset with him? Why f****t? I mean there's a whole bunch of things he could've called him to express his anger or displeasure . Not to mention he's a black actor on a hugely popular television show. Wasn't a smart move. And what bothers me about IW is that he's fired his current PR person and hired someone else who's more experienced in dealing with "crisis" situations.

Ty
January 22 2007, 11:54AM

And, don't forget Darnell, ask him for a few coins to help them fight "oppression and bigotry" for white gays and lesbians. I for one am over Glaad and IW, both being knuckleheads with this stuff. Him for making totally uncalled for and out of line slurs and them for their blatant hypocrisy.

Martin Luther King Jr
January 22 2007, 12:20PM

calling someone a faggot is no different than calling someone racist neither can be considered a racial slur

saint james
January 22 2007, 12:36PM

The word faggot is the gay identified hate word equal to the word nigger. The fact that it could be called a bundle of sticks is the root of the hate contained therein. It comes from the day when gays were viewed to be equal to witches/divination and burned at the stake; lit afire by a "bundle of sticks".

Gregg
January 22 2007, 1:13PM

Unexceptable in most circumstances, not even when advertising, i.e. "fit faggots". I will agree when explaining a circumstance the word should be used. One should say what exactly has been said. For example, let stop using this so called politically correct "N-word." the word is nigger. Let's say what it is.

Mikey--He Likes it
January 22 2007, 1:16PM

MLK Jr I suggest the nest time you're in the presence of black men you call them faggot and see what happens!!!

Matin Luther King jr
January 22 2007, 1:21PM

hey jimmy the word faggot is no more equal to the word nigger than it is to the word honkie those are racial slurs the word faggot has many meanings one is old woman so it cant be equal to a racial slur

DDC
January 22 2007, 1:36PM

From all the stories I have read, IW didn't directly call anyone a F#. He grabbed Dempsey and allegedly said, "I'm not your F# like TR". TR was late to the set and IW was upset about it, wanting to shoot the scene already. Dempsey was insistent that they wait for TR, and that further enraged IW. Hey, maybe IW suspected (or knew) that something sexual was going on between the two guys and so he used that word because of that fact, not because he hates gay people. Call me crazy, but that's a little different from just screaming F# directly towards someone to hurt them. If TR was a woman and IW had said, "I'm not your b!tch (sexual albeit vulgar term for a woman) like TR" it would be no different. While the incident is disturbing and regrettable, I think most people are blowing this out of proportion and oversimplifying it.

Martin Luther King jr
January 22 2007, 1:54PM

hey dikey say what you want not the same thing

Mikey--He Likes It
January 22 2007, 2:37PM

MLK Jr I see you have no problem calling people names unless you can't read.

Darnell
January 22 2007, 3:30PM

This discussion about the use of the word, F(**&^ is odd, there's a website with that title and I assume the guy who runs it is gay, but, since he is a white guy, maybe its acceptable to the good people at Glaad?

chandra
January 22 2007, 5:08PM

All I have to say is if someone called me a dyke (being that I'm a lesbian) or a bitch (another word with multiple meanings and widely used in pop culture, for those who want to play that route)at my office by someone who is neither a gay or a female, I would consider it to be a hostile environment.

Darnell
January 22 2007, 5:20PM

And, Chandra, you would be right, as there is no place in civilized society and certainly not in the work place for such language. That said, ABC is a huge company with a whole bunch of high paid lawyers who know the rules of the work place. I'm sure they could have settled this without the interference of a group that is not known for tolerance itself, Glaad, running the show and demanding they know best as to how to deal with IW, which to them means canning the lout.

Jeremey
January 22 2007, 8:06PM

I'm amazed at all dialog over the use of this term. The TV sitcom Will & Grace, the term was used frequently. They even referred to the females characters often as Fxx-Hags. As for black males jumping on this band wagon, still today, black males face extreme levels of discrimination at the hands of gay white males. And last I checked, a gay white male can get a taxi in NYC, but not a black man straight or gay. I hope black men gay and straight alike, hold gay white America accountable, before they allow a media lynching of Mr. Washington.

deejay
January 22 2007, 8:31PM

Isn't the creator of Grey's Anatomy a black woman? Is this not among the most popular shows in America right now. (admittedly, I do not watch this or any other network t.v.)

Why couldn't this man keep his eye on the bigger prize long enough to keep his mouth SHUT and allow the show to bask in all of it's commercial success?

Wanna know why? Because it's ALL ABOUT HIM!

IW clearly doesn't give a damn about the black experience much less the dignity of folks in the struggle for equality.

Wasn't it Chris Rock who said, "Everytime black people try - in this case - to do something positive and progressive, IGNORANT ASS "RIGGENS" fuck it up?!"

So, no... HELL no... I ain't running behind all this. He made his bed, now he has to lie in it.

Robert
January 22 2007, 8:35PM

Sorry. As a gay, black man, I object to Isaiah's use of the word and I'm not giving him a pass on his obvious homophobia simply because he's Black (everyone on the set heard him say the word to TR and he's the only one denying it??). Sorry, not happening.

Cadence
January 22 2007, 8:42PM

Jeremy, what does gay Black men getting taxis have to do with this issue? Why are people, like Jasmyne, taking the stand that since Black people are discriminated against that makes it okay to discriminate against others? Wouldn't it be better to be against all forms of discrimination; especially since that would be less hypocritical, and in the long run benefit everyone.

Mel Smith
January 22 2007, 9:45PM

Well, I'm black and gay, and I also know other gay people who call each other 'f@gg@ts,' and other words. Honestly, I've been called a f@gg@t by a straight person, who saw me looking at him. Of course, it hurted. Now, Washington definitely should not have used that language because I believe it's inappropriate at all times to use such language. However, HE APOLOGIZED. Damn, what else do some of you guys want the man to do? Lets move on to bigger issuse affecting us. Gay organizations did the right thing by putting Washington A$$ in his place. Washington apologized and lets move on and challenge some of the fake 'Christians.' Who's on for that challenge? Also, it's always about skin color in America. You don't get no pass because you're gay.

Darnell
January 22 2007, 9:49PM

Cadence, with all due respect, are you white? Your terse replies miss the mark. We all agree IW was WRONG, but, why is it that the same gay white groups that won't say a peep about issues that affect the black lgbt community.

I don't have a need to the white gay movement or their institutions, they don't have one issue that affects me or my life, they may as well be from Pluto with what they fell as I can't relate, and they sure don't try to understand anything related to people of color.

I hear you trying to say, one wrong does not make another right, and you are right, but, in this world, and in this country, its always going to be black and white, always has been always will be, sadly. And, the vow of vengeance speaks volumes, since I don't recall Gladd saying anything about Jay Leno at the Tony's with his anti-gay "jokes." And, now they want IW fired, so, hypocrisy is all they are about, not his slur.

Cadence
January 22 2007, 10:18PM

Darnell, no I'm not White. I believe my replies have been honest and consistent. As you said, two wrongs don't make a right. I believe I can't ask someone not to discriminate against me if I'm discriminating against them or some other group. I want to be accepted as a Black lesbian woman. All three of those things make up who I am, and I'm not going to put up with someone disrespecting me about any of them.

I don't see how someone can make this arguement about GLAAD or any other gay group. This is about Isaih Washington and his actions. I can condemn Washington's actions, and that doesn't mean that I am any less Black. What he did was wrong, just like SQL is wrong.

Darnell
January 22 2007, 11:21PM

Ok, Cadence,thanks. I guess I'm still missing why the gladd people are involved in this mess and running the show. He is a grown man, and ABC shouuld be the one who determine his future, with the show or canned from it. Should he be fired? I don't know, and to be honest don't really care as I've never seen the show. He has had two chances, and, I'm sure they don't want a third melodramatic blowup. A better way would be to make him miss a few shows, hit him in the pocket book where he will get the point loud and clear. But,to see him groveling to the glaad people is what irks me more than anything else. Talk about not being worthy of even being acknowledged, that would be them IMO.

Mel Smith
January 22 2007, 11:40PM

Darnell, I think we do need GLAAD and other gay organizations because they help us deal with the prejudices of the heterosexual power structure. See, if we don't have gay organizations, it would be more difficult for gay people, as a WHOLE. More people know not to disrespect us because of organizations such as the National Black Justice Coalition and other groups. Representation is very important. Washington apologize and I think we should accept his apology. When people apologize for making insensitive racial remarks, I accept his/her apology and move on. However, it is always important to correct people.

Cadence
January 23 2007, 8:28AM

Darnell, I don't think GLAAD is running things. The most important aspect is still can Washington co-exist with all of his castmates and the crew of Grey's Anatomy. But an important aspect of of this is the public damage control that needs to take place. After the first incident, Shonda Rhimes and ABC failed to make a public statement, so it looked like the were siding with Washington and not taking the matter seriously. After the second incident, they have no choice but to take a public stand, and one way to do that is to meet with GLAAD, so that GLAAD can say everything is okay. IW apology was as much for the public as it was for TR Knight.

Isaiah going to GLAAD is no different than a White person pandering to Jesse Jackson when they do something wrong. Is he sincere in his actions, probably not. But, it is a step that he has to do to help rebuild his reputation.

saint james
January 23 2007, 10:05AM

As far as the word FAGGOT being equal to the word NIGGER:

It most certainly is equal. The word's origins as well as the intention of the word to denegrate, objectify and intimidate contains the same venom. If I follow your logic then the word black would not apply to people of African descent because it also has so many different meanings (black mood, black hearted, black tie, etc.) Many times the power of a word is in its intent. Of course it is equal. Reading your subsequent posts I think you need a nap. Please take one.

Darnell
January 23 2007, 11:17AM

Good morning Cadence and Mel Smith, thanks for explaining your take on the situation and Laad's role in it. I don't agree with the influence that Glaad has, so, we are at a standoff. I read that ABC will fire him on E!'s gossip section, so, it looks like its over now, so, his meeting was a waste of time on his part, and his days in Hollywood are over it appears.

And, cadence, you are right about one thing, I always get a chuckle out of white people who make slurs and run to Jesse Jackson or Rev Al, as if they speak for all black people, they sure don't speak for me, just like Glaad does not represent one thing about my gay black life, since they have never experienced what its like to be black or gay, and IMO don't seem to have the desire to learn.

People need to take ownership of what they say and do, because, being forced to be contrite, serves no purpose other than to make the person more hateful IMO.

AJ
January 23 2007, 12:38PM

I think you're just making a mountain out of a mole hill here Keith.Ever heard of 'sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me'?I do agree these words have to be carefully chosen in the realms of context on the TV.But it really don't matter.We all have our own different opinion and express it many different ways.Some people will be offended,some won't.It will always be that way.Let's not pick holes and get over sensitive now eh?

anon
January 23 2007, 9:04PM

Many white sportscasters have been fired for racist talk. In some cases, whether what they said was racist was questionable. But corporations have a tough stance on racist talk. You say something racist/quasi-racist, you are fired. Zero tolerance.

It took a lot to get corporations to have a zero tolerance attitude for racist talk. But now these same corporations are dragging their heels when it comes to anti-gay talk. That's a shame.

There should be a zero tolerance policy for anti-gay talk. All arguments about Washington's race hold no water if we want Americans to get the message that anti-gay slurs, no matter what the context, are treated as seriously as racist slurs.

He screwed up in Oct. He was given another chance. He screwed up again at the Golden Globes, where he flat out lied about what he said and joked about the incident. He should be fired.

Our job is to make the world a better place for gays, not worry about the liveliehood of one black actor who can't act professionally.

Robert
January 23 2007, 9:18PM

I don't care how many brothers implore me to forgive him and move on, I'm not doing it. I don't care if Isaiah apologized. Michael Richards apologized and I don't think he's any less a racist because of it. He apologized because he fears that his career would be at risk if he didn't. And I'm of the mind that Isaiah was similarly motivated. So, no, he doesn't get a pass. I think he's a homophobe and I imagine what he's really sorry about is that he was exposed as one. Yes, he's entitled to his opinion and to say whatever words he chooses within the limits of the law. But you know what? I'm ALSO entitled to stop supporting him and his work, just like I stopped supporting Michael Richards and his work. That policy doesn't shift just because Isaiah's Black and I'm Black. I have to let him help oppress me with his homophobia just because we're both oppressed by racism? No. I'm not down with that. So yeah, Isaiah. Go get therapy. I'll check you when you've gone through it. But right now? I don't SEE you

J
January 23 2007, 10:31PM

Do people really believe he's a phobe?

I'm sorry, but I don't buy it. He portrayed a gay man wonderfully. I doubt he's even straight, and that has nothing to do with that role.

He didn't walk up to T.R. and call him a f--got. He didn't shout f--got ten times with a big smile on his face.

He made some ignorant comment when he was angry. I haven't read or heard about statements from TR that IW mistreated him prior to this incident.

Other than this argument when has this man made comments or behaved in a way that suggested he was homophobic?

Robert
January 23 2007, 10:41PM

J,

Yes, I really believe he's a homophobe. What I also believe is that some black gay men are willing to forgive him or make excuses for him because he's attractive, because he's black, and because those gay men are dealing with issues related to internalized homophobia. No one "accidentally" calls a gay man a f*ggot in the heat of the moment. That sort of vitriol is coming from some ugly place, and I feel it's an insult to my intelligence to suggest otherwise.

And in my opinion, "he portrayed a gay man wonderfully" is the philosophical equivalent to the argument "but I have Black friends" from people claiming not to be racist.

Louis
January 23 2007, 11:55PM

I am so tired of GLAAD and the Black FAGGOTS (yes I used the word) who run behind this group. What has this lilly White organization done for the Black Gay community? Not a dam thing. The White gay community continously exhibits racist behavior towards the African American community and African American gay community, and we fall behind this trap. If IW had such an issue with gay men I doubt very seriously he would have taking the role of a gay Black men on "Get on the Bus." It's so strange that the White media has yet to mention him playing a gay man. We have yet to even know what sparked the heated discussion between the two. All I noticed is a few Black gay folks on here falling in line with Master everytime he pulls your dam chain. Open your eyes. This is 2007. If GLAAD was so offended by his remarks, where did they stand on Fat Rosie when she dissed Asian Americans.

kenneth
January 24 2007, 12:07AM

If harassment in the workplace -- of any kind -- is not a concern for you, then I guess this is a non-issue.

Robert
January 24 2007, 1:36AM

I'll have you know, Louis, that my friend Rashad Robinson---young, gifted AND black, is the head of promotion at GLAAD.

jared
January 24 2007, 9:46AM

I'm with you Louis with this Glaad group, just what do they do other than give out some lame award? I for one don't know anything about IW, and his "career" never seen him in anything. Should he be fired? let ABC decided, not some white gay men. These are the same men who seem to always be on the forefront of intolerance themselves, and yet, they are demanding his firing, huh? They need to police the gay community with its bigoted stance before they try and take on straights.

They can get him fired, big deal, he will get a job somewhere else in Hollyweird, since there are many who feel the same way he does, and just don't say it out loud.

When Glaad and he rest of the "gay white organizations" come out and call out the bigots who run magazines that won't put a black man on the cover or bars that you never see in LA or SF with a black bartender, then they can come back and say they are fair and inclusive. Until then, they are just like Rosie O'Donnell, hot air and bully's, with a couple of token blacks.

edwin greene
January 24 2007, 10:37AM

"I am so tired of GLADD and the black FAGGOTS who run behind this group. What has this lilly white organization done for the black gay community? Not a dam thing. The white gay community continuously exhibits racist behavior towards the African-American community and the African-Americian gay community and we fall behind this trap".

Since we black gay men are men, with smarts just like white gay men, I'm not sure what "they" are supposed to do for us. We can join and support our own black gay organizations.

I hate what IW did. I don't care if the victim is white. GLADD has NOTHING to do with how I feel, but if they can help get him fired more power to them.

Louis
January 24 2007, 1:29PM

Once again, we have no idea why the word was used and in what context. Maybe IW felt he was a FAG since he had yet to reveal his sexuality to the public. Whatever happened we have no idea. I doubt if anyone on this blog was in that room. We have no videotape that reflects what occur (ie. Michael Richards). And, I am so happy your friend works for GLAAD. I am sure he is the typical snow bunny that White Gay men have to come to love and promote in certain organizations. And, yes I said it. Bottom line I feel this organization took an easy route to attack a person that lacks any real power or control. When I see GLAAD use the same resources to battle an horrible incident that occur in Atlanta they will get some respect from me. They take the PUNK route every which is atypical of White sissies.

Darnell
January 24 2007, 3:33PM

Edwin, by getting him fired accomplishes what? He should be dealt with by ABC, not GLAAD. He made some nasty slurs, and was way out of place to do it. But, who knows just how this TR Knight guy may have pushed his buttons, not that it would make it okay. Sorry, two wrongs don't make a right, but, the man has apologized and made to look like the fool he is, firing him isn't going to change a thing with the gay community or society as a whole, as slurs of this sort are used all the time, and not just by people who have issues with gays.

Add me to the list as to why GLAAD is able to tell anyone who to hire or to fire or to humle. That is what I just don't get in this whole fiasco. And, with thier involvement, it has turned into both a gay issue and a racial one, which is sad, but, not unexpected. Some of the slurs I have seen on white gay websites for his firing are worse than the klan, which is why there needs to be a better way to deal with this sort of thing.

Peace.

Cadence
January 24 2007, 5:16PM

Uh, Darnell, I hate to keep sounding like a broken record, but just like Jasmyne, you have your facts mixed up.
First of all, ABC set-up the meeting between GLAAD and Isaiah. GLAAD didn't call for the meeting, nor did they ask for Washington to be fired.

Secondly, after the meeting, which was held on Monday, both GLAAD and GLSEN came out saying that Isaiah seemed to be sincere in his desire to let people know that he is sorry, and that he has offered to work with both groups. Neither group sounded like the want any other action taken, especially not termination.

Third: This isn't about Isaiah versus TR Knight, as Jasmyne tried to set it up as. The initial fight wasn't even between IW and TR. This is all about Isaiah behavior, and has nothing to do with what TR might have done.

Lastly, Kristen from E is notoriously wrong, so don't qoute or believe anything she writes.

Darnell
January 24 2007, 6:08PM

Cadence, first off, thank you again for the info about ABC and Glaad, who I still don't understand how they can intervene in anything with thier track record of bigotry and intolerance. About, Jasmyne, sounds like that's between the two of you, I don't know who she is or what her thing is on this issues as I've not seen her name on this thread.

I can say that I do however that I do respect you and your thoughts on it, you have been civil and on topic, but, I don't agree. If ABC was so unhappy with him with his slur, they should have canned him instead of sending him to the board of review with the white gay people as if they are capable of handling the issue with tact or fairness. Sounds like I don't care for groups such as Glaad, no I don't as they are foucused on issues I as a gay black man can't relate to whatever thier misson is about. Just like I don't see how someone could be as big a fool as IW was in doing this.

Robert
January 24 2007, 7:14PM

Louis, I don't even know how to respond to your insults regarding my friend (who is also a friend of Keith Boykin's) because, in my estimation, one invokes insults does so because he does not have the tools to better express himself.

However, all of this has incited me to address it in a more coherent form:

"Losing Isaiah"

http://thisisthediaspora.blogspot.com/2007/01/losing-isaiah.html

Greg
January 24 2007, 7:57PM

Why is this debate still raging, and people are starting to disrespecting each other? Name calling? For an over paid actor? Please.

Love him or hate him, he made a mistake, as all humans do. He has apologized, the ones who were annoyed by his slur seem to have accepted his apology. Time to move on to more pressing issues that affect gay men and women of color.

Louis
January 24 2007, 8:21PM

Edwin if you think getting an African American fired is going to solve the issue of sexual bias you are very naive. First and foremost this issue should have never been aired publicly. This is why I am questioning everything that has occurred. The situation occurred on the set, which is IW's job. The White male involved should have interacted with his boss if he felt HARRASSED, but from what I read the discussion did not involve him directly. Secondly, the situation should have been resolved within the confines of ABC and the producers of the show. What this seems to me is just a way to boot IW off the show. Also, I think it has less to do with a IW gay issue and more to do with his anger management issues. We all know in the fit of anger people tend to say ANYTHING. Once again, I am so tired of us being manipulated by a group of people that we have no clue if we are coming or going.

Mel Smith
January 24 2007, 10:17PM

From what it looks like, Washington will be fired. I have also read comments on other websites and people don't respect the fact that there are black people with a homosexual orientation, which makes two strikes against us. See, white gay folks are on a higher social ladder because of their skin color. Thus, they are often insensitive to our struggles as black gay people. If they respected us, those white gay individuals would be careful with how they comment about Washington. Yes, I have read prejudice comments on other websites. Homophobia does not have anything to do with one's skin color and those white gay folks have made this into a race issue. Now, this is why we need unity and less arguing. Washington should have apologized and move on. I don't like the publicity he's receiving by him meeting with GLAAD.

nytheatreguy
January 24 2007, 10:22PM

Louis, the only reason I doubt this is all a conspiracy of sorts designed to run IW off the show is because there are so many blacks involved in "Grey's," both in front of the camera and behind it, that I can't see what point there'd be in trying to get rid of just one when there'd be so many others left behind. I also can't say that I feel much, if any, sympathy for IW since (a) he did bring all this shit down on himself and (b) tossing out the word "faggot" about someone -- even if the discussion was heated -- is completely out of line and unneccessary and the fact that a black man who's most likely been fighting racism his entire life just like the rest of us should definitely have known better.

nytheatreguy
January 24 2007, 10:57PM

I also wanted to add that you can, despite my unsympathetic view towards IW, count me amongst those black gays who are offended by the white gay community's overreaction to this incident. After being there for well over a year, I was banished this past weekend from the gay gossip site DataLounge for finally blowing my top at all the white gays there who are straight-up trashing blacks over this IW/TRK drama, saying that we're all homophobes like IW and one asshole even bringing up OJ to express his confusion over why "blacks are always willing to cover up for criminals." (They're also saying Shonda Rhimes is obviously a racist.) Posting that you're black and didn't agree with IW's behavior means nothing by the way; to them, if you're black, you're the enemy. End of story.

The site used to be a lot of fun (great inside Hollywood gossip) but it's also predominantly white and their insane hatred for blacks just became too much for me to handle.

Mel Smith
January 24 2007, 11:13PM

NYtheaterguy, that's is why we must support each other.

nytheatreguy
January 24 2007, 11:50PM

One more point: As for GLAAD and all of these other white gay organizations foaming at the mouth over IW, I agree that they're nothing but hypocrites. Around the time the "Grey's" story first broke, Michael Sandy, a young black man, was murdered by four white hoodlums who reportedly killed him NOT for his skin color but for being gay. Where was GLAAD then? If their motivation is the protection of ALL gay people, why didn't they care about Mr. Sandy the way they cared about Matt Shepherd? Oh, wait, I forgot -- Mr. Sandy wasn't (1) a young, attractive, white gay male or (2) a young, attractive, white gay male on a popular TV show being insulted by his black male co-star. Like anything else, it's about giving the white folks what they want. (About 5 threads a day are created on DataLounge about IW/TRK, all drawing multitudes of responses. My thread on Mr. Sandy drew ZERO responses.)

It's time for white gays to stop acting like "gayness" is their own personal property. Far from it.

Louis
January 25 2007, 9:54AM

NY have you ever heard of the term institutional racism. Every place I have worked Blacks in so-called power exhibit this behavior. Most tend not to be aware of their own behavior, but attempt to monitor the field hands behavior (play on slavery). I am so amazed that this dicusssion occurred between IW and Patrick (whatever his last name is). IW told him he was not going to be his faggot like TK (who is the gay guy). Basically his statement to me meant I am not going to bend over and let you just fuck all over me. This is not harrasement of TK. Maybe not the best choice of words, but far from something that is being talked about through the media. I am so tired of the White gay community screaming homophobic whenever they get a chance. Same thing with Rosie attack on Kelly.

edwin greene
January 25 2007, 10:37AM

Darnell and Louis,

The IW situation (and the responses to it) forces me, a black gay man, to consider : am I black first or gay first?

I have been overtly discriminated against by straights, both black and white, but more often by blacks, because of my sexual orientation. The racial discrimination I have experienced from whites, gay and straight, has been less overt, but I'm acutely aware of it.

Why should I have to choose among racist white gays, racist/homophobic white straights and homophobic straight blacks? I choose NONE of the above.

I have NO feelings of racial solidarity with homophobic straight black people. I remind you that MOST straight black men DO NOT consider us to be their "brothers": they refer to us as "fags and punks" routinely. I have NO sympathy (or feelings of racial solidarity) for the black and handsome IW, who I believe is a homophobe.

Martin Luther King jr
January 25 2007, 12:20PM

hey jimmy nobody said black so youre clearly are not following my logic i said nigger that word has but one meaning blacks not a racial slur nigger always has been so untill you can give me another definition of the word nigger not the word black im right youre wrong not equal

Mel Smith
January 25 2007, 1:15PM

Edwin, I definitely share your views. White gay folks are insensitive to the fact that we have two strikes against us: skin color and sexual orientation. Black straight males are insensitive to our struggle and that's why I just want to scream in their faces! Now, you guys know how I feel about the heterosexual power structure. I dislike it with a passion. Unfortunately, we are in a social war by ourselves. NOBODY LIKES US! White or black people. Louis I loved that comment you typed because I just resigned from my job and there were a lot of blacks like that.

Martin Luther King jr
January 25 2007, 1:21PM

he jimmy dont give me other definitons for the word black givee me other definitions for the word nigger can ya do it

langston
January 25 2007, 6:15PM

It's ironic how in an industry such as hollywood, someone "so smart and talented" as IW would utter faggot. If we have not recognised that 60 to 70% of Hollywood/Entertainment/Arts is gay or dl by now. DUMB as nails he is, if it is true. There are rules in life and bigger rules in Hollywood. From the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. Acting is a job and he should be dealt with regardles of race and how we, as blacks have been treated. A slur is a slur.

BTW, I have always seen this dark, brewing anger within IW's persona just like I see it in Creflo Dollar.

James
January 26 2007, 9:47AM

To be honest I think this incident just exposes the truth about the gay community. When will we as black gay people STOP seeking out white gay validation? These white gays now I am not saying all are racist or bad. But I am talking about the power structue of the gay community is not black friendly. Why is Keith surprised about Noah's Arc being treated so badly on LOGO? I think if Patrick Ian Polk was smart he would try to find a new nrtwork for his show.He should contact the BBC! He should contact foreign networks or other American cable networks. Isaiah made a mistake for apologizing. Look at these white gay racists such as Perezhilton.com. I have spoken to many other black people about the undertones of this racist bigot Perezhilton but he's unleashed his racism.

Louis
January 26 2007, 11:56AM

Edwin,

Yes we have issues within the Black community when it comes to homosexuality. It's up to us as Black men to address this in our own community. To allow White gay folks to come in and try to make change is ridiculous. Basically, it's never going to happen. In relationship to identity I see myself as an African American man, first and foremost. Now however you identify that is fine with me. No one can ever challenge or take away my Black experience. I love and embrace it daily. Do I shy away from my own sexuality? The answer is no. Too many brothers and sisters in our community attempt to hide their sexuality and this will never help us in our movement. I know this much, if IW would have stated I am going to be your bitch your like your wife this would have never been an issue.

Martin Luther King jr
January 26 2007, 12:45PM

funny how you all cry for what happens to you because of youre homosexuality if you kept homosexuality to yourself the "strike" still be there because of it i say no prove me wrong

Martin Luther King jr
January 26 2007, 1:52PM

two words people try God.

Mel Smith
January 26 2007, 4:46PM

MLK, we are already blessed by God. That is why we are proud of our GOD GIVING sexual orientation.

Louis
January 26 2007, 6:26PM

Robert,
My statement was not an insult, but an opinion. I am so tired of so-called of Black gay men like you. I don't care if your friend is friends with Keith (how immature and high school like). To even attempt a name drop tells me that you are young, inexperience, and need validation through others to attempt to take a stand. I visited your web site and you basically provided enough rhetoric, but where is the substance. What do you truly stand for my brother (if you really are a brother)? IW has anger management issues, which is clear. I am sure when provoked "anything" may flow from his mouth. Is this right or wrong? I am not to judge. As an adult I realize all people will say anything in the heat of anger. But, I do know one thing. I know a snow bunny from a mile away. And, if you take offense to that statement maybe the shoe fits.

craig
January 26 2007, 11:53PM

Louis,

You don't need to discuss politics, you need a therapist. "I am so sired of so called blac gay men like you" That statement alone is a statement of someone deeply messed up and incapable of listening. I've read this entire thread. I read the point about the name in question. It wasn't name dropping. Your abilities at large are pretey thin that you think it was. It was about refutation of claims that GLAAD is a whites only organization.

What's truly sad is how many of you who as gay black men have internalized the worst problems in the black community as a whole. I thought I had left idiotic comments behind like "you are trying to be white" with the straight black community. Certainly, amongst my black gay friends this kind of comment would be the first sign to me and them that this is about internalized issues. My friend who deals with black gay men self esteem talks about this kind internalized self hate masquerading as pride. If you had any real pride you wouldn't divide yourself up like this.

Ron Lee
January 27 2007, 9:40AM

I always thought of faggot as a white sissy. Black males called me punk or sissy. I remember the first time a black man refered to me as a faggot,it was truely a double insult becuase I felt like I was being called a white queen. I said all that to say men call each other faggot all the time, men who use that term themselves are many times on the down low. Real hetero-men don't have those insecurities and simply are too female oriented to go there.Im concerned with the six guys from Chicago who were shot on News Years Day. I don't see any National Press on it. What I'm getting from this Isaih Washington case,that it all bowls down to "DON'T F%%K WITH THE WHITE BOY" are there will be reprecussons.

Martin Luther King jr
January 27 2007, 11:31AM

smel smitty chapter and verse

edwin greene
January 27 2007, 12:37PM

Louis,

Years ago, some black gay men used the term "snow queen" instead of snow bunny to describe a certain type of black gay man. How things change, it seems, only to remain the same.

Is calling someone a snow bunny really a good way to communicate with a fellow black gay man, regardless of the race of the men you think he sleeps with? Don't we get called names enough by people who are not black, gay or male?

We humans all want (and maybe need) to connect with something but black gay men have no good choices. So most of us "choose" to belong to the black community even though they've made it clear what they think of us. I will not give my heart to homophobic straight black people in the name of racial solidarity. I'd rather live and die alone!

We black gay men could come together to form our own black gay movement but can it (will it) actually happen?

craig
January 27 2007, 12:49PM

hey edwin,

my friend who counsels gay black men makes a lot of the points you make. he talks about the self destructive involved in these arguments whith pretend to be about pride, but which are actually the opposite. why embrace people that destroy part of you, in order to belong? just like I don't embrace white people who are racist regardless of their sexual orientation, I am not going to embrace black people who are homophobic regardless of their race. it's really that simple. anyone acting as an apologist along this thread for anything but this simpe view of self respect needs to consider whether they are healthy or not, because from my perspective if you are choosing between being black or gay rather than owning both, you aren't. And being gay by the way it not just what you do sexually, it's how you view yourself with regard to your sexual identity. Do you think you going to go to Heaven or Hell based on you sexual identity? if you think you are sining, then how can that be healthy?

maverick-musings
January 27 2007, 3:49PM

The Washington/Knight controversy has many sides to it. On my blog (http://maverickmusingsonline.blogspot.com/) I tried looking at its racial implications.

Craig
January 27 2007, 8:47PM

Craig,

Just because a person of color works within an organization surely is not providing enough justification to say this organization is for the betterment of a certain group. If you are that naive I surely feel sorry for you.

Edwin,

I find it amazing how you want to step away from how the word Snow Queen or Snow Bunny developed. I have over 20 years in this gay experience and in most cases these titles rightly apply to Black men who distance themselves from their own community and only chase after
White men, which in itself is a sickness of its own.

Once I again, I support IW. If the two of you want to join in the lynching that is fine. This is nothing new in our community. Your inability to think outside of the context of what the media has created is really amazing to me.

deejay
January 29 2007, 8:44AM

@ Craig:

Thank you for reframing the context of the IW incident (for me, anyways) as a media creation. I know better than anyone that most of what is reported in the press in usually not accurate, so again I thank you for that point.

I can't help but notice that absence of support for this brother's character beyond the racial polarization of this incident.

In fact, I've only seen reports of unprofessional, bizarro behavior on the sets of other projects, including Soul Food, that seemingly corroborate his selfish disregard for association with this show.

When you think about it, our community is not that large and folk can usually point to folk who (pre-fame especially) grew up with, or worked with, or know someone who dated or whatever. To my knowledge, no one (besides Ms. Cannick) has come forward to vouch for this IW character or personality.

That says a lot.

Martin Luther King jr
January 29 2007, 12:46PM

faggot is not a racial slur shouldnt be treated like one honkie is nigger is beaner is faggot isnt

Albert Sammons Jr
January 29 2007, 10:57PM

Much to do about nothing. Don't suppose the GAY WHITE MAFIA in destroying a misguided brother. This was an internal affair which should have been dealt with internally. Let's move on.

Will
January 30 2007, 11:06PM

The actor who played the gay mafia character on The Sopranos said in an interview in today's USA Today that James Gandolfini and some of the crew members were "a little freaked out" by the storyline and, according to him, used gay slurs behind the scenes, including the F-word, "and worse."

Hmm, interesting. So does this mean GLAAD and all the angry white gays salivating for IW's lynching are going to go after Tony Soprano now? Somehow I doubt it.

http://www.usatoday.com/life/television/news/2007-01-29-gay-on-TV-main_x.htm

curious887
January 31 2007, 10:19PM

@ Will

No, Will. They are not going after Gandolfini. What really has me heated up about this is that white gay men (and some black) repeatedly say that if a white person had used the N word, he would have been fired. I'm not convinced. Had M. Richards said the N word during the height of the lilly-white Seinfeld and then apologized and gone to counseling (everything IW is doing), I doubt he would have been fired. Another recent example (admittedly not quite analogous) is this season's Real World on MTV, where a white gay male (Davis) called one of the black roommates with whom he was fighting the N word. Davis was so ashamed the next day that he wanted to go home, but it was the black guys (there are two this season) who said he should stay so that they could learn from each other. They accepted his apology.

I think this whole thing with IW has taken on a life of its own re: the fag comment. But I have also heard that IW has anger management issues, so maybe it's good that he's getting help.