Noah's Arc Season Finale

chris-leo
October 4 2006, 11:52PM

by the way keith, it's 8 episodes!!...just saw the finale. i think it could be stored in the fridge next to the gorgonzola.

CHEEEEEEEEESEY!!!!!!

questions. so many questions. am i to believe that every kind of gay black man - from Alex to Quincy to Dre to Wade to Noah are ALL into the ball scene?? who knew??? were all the production values lavished on that hollywood party with Noah and Baby Gat, 'cause the finale was cheap cheap cheap?? either that or the L.A. shoot must've been rushed like a muthafukka. did Eddie and Chance fuck in the bushes?? did Wade and Noah fuck in a public bathroom? would ANYBODY set their boyfriend up on an internet date WITHOUT TELLING THEM?? did ANYBODY attached to this production EVER attend a black, gay pride weekend in L.A.?? did i wait two months of my life for THAT ENDING???? SHEEESH.

and my final question. could somebody please kick Noah's ass again??? how many lives can he ruin with no accountability?? i have no idea what this show is about now.

bubba
October 5 2006, 12:07AM

You have GOT to be kidding me.

Can Logo not pony up the cash to produce more than 8 episodes in 1 year? I seriously had no idea that it was ending already. Just think about the crap that stays on for 9 months in comparison.

LatinoFlava
October 5 2006, 12:12AM

I have enjoyed Noah's Arc since day one and appreciate the fact that there is a program that caters to a segment of the population that has been ignored for far too long. I can relate to the show and many components of the characters. We exist and have our own distinctions that makes us unique. So many people are quick to render a negative opinion about everything in this world and yet do nothing to offer their interpretation of what is being criticized. If you find fault with the program, then let us see you create, write, market, cast, direct and executive produce an original series that will exceed the expectations and criticisms heaped upon this 22 minute program. It is unfortunate that this one beam of sunshine upon our stories at long last is still met with negative criticism and opinion. Embrace the fact that there is at least one program that centers upon our experiences (perhaps not individually, but in general terms). Embrace and appreciate the entertainment value that this show offers.

Charles
October 5 2006, 12:16AM

I've been pulling for this show since the beginning, however this season ended flat. The writing was horrible. We don't have enough positive representation to begin with, and the season is so short that I don't feel it's necessary to show black men having sex in restrooms or cheating on their faithful partners, repeatedly. One more thing for Mr Polk... Brother, all black sgl men don't want to dress in drag or walk in balls. Yes, I purchased the first season on dvd but I don't think Logo or ONETALLSKINNYBLACKBOY will be getting anymore money or support from me.

Mikey
October 5 2006, 12:41AM

Yeah I completely agree that the show needs more than 8 episodes and should be an hour, however I do realize the LOGO is a new network so who knows what their budget is and also gotta realize that since Noah's Arc IS a GAY television network a lot of people WANT this channel to fail so I'm just glad that the show is on even if the season is only 8 episodes long. Hell we need to get Oprah to donate money to the show lol. But yeah we'll have to set fire to LOGO if they dont' bring it back next season.

nOva
October 5 2006, 1:04AM

The main thing NA has working for it is a certain charm. I'd prefer if the show just built around that and dealt with the more serious stuff when it's ready.

And BTW, LatinoFlava, a lot of the issues people have with this show have nothing to do with depictions of our culture, but more to do with the execution. Plotting and characterization are very key in any kind of fiction, televised or otherwise, so it's understandable that folks would take issue with the pacing, style, and logic of this show.

Cocoa Rican
October 5 2006, 1:06AM

Okay, so I watched the finale...ugh...make that ugh twice!
Unfortunately, I can't bad-mouth a series I love so dearly and want to see succeed. We want more episodes, less predictability and the realization that not all gay men are sissies intent on referring to each other as "gurl" and sashaying around.

Patrik, maybe the real issue is that white women are collaborating with you on writing for the show, rather than real life gay men of color that walk the walk and talk the talk. With so many talented gay black and latino writers, why are we depending on Molly and Gertrude to write about a primarily black gay experience?

Don't make us wait for season 3 and this time, why not give some of us a shot to help you "keep it real."

Keep passin' the open windows...

Sharif
October 5 2006, 6:39AM

I love the show and try to support it but the season finale was DUMB! I waited this long to find out that Ricky is still a HOE and always will be, why couldn't the writers have put him and Noah in the car since they have ruin so many lives, why my baby Dre? I am shocked that Dre did not kick Wade and especially Noah ass when he found them in the bathroom together, Patrick be realistic a real brotha would have NUTTED UP! This makes the third character they got rid of that I loved on the show first Baby Gat, then Guy, and now Dre. I loved all those characters more than the originals because they added spice to the show. At this point I can't say that I am honestly looking foward or support a third season of Noah's Arc. All this non-serious relationship, drag wearing, girl calling CHIT CHAT is negative, dull and disappoining. Patrick ask the opinion of the brothas out here viewing the show instead of white female writers. Patrick why my baby Dre?
Damn, Damn, Damn!
Not my baby Dre!!!!!!

. . . I'm just saying.

Karen S.
October 5 2006, 8:19AM

Chill Sharif, he ain't dead yet! (As far as we know.) But I was pissed that none of them went to see if he was alive since they knew (at least Noah did) that they were both in that car. I was pissed about that ending since it's not good for anyone -- and it's way too much contrast between lighthearted humor and heavy drama to reconcile. I've been rooting for Noah & Wade since the get-go but I'd like to see some depth in the relationship. Also, is Wilson Cruz on the way out? He's the best actor they've got! Poor Noah's Arc -- but I'm not giving up on the show yet. It could be that the only way Patrik could get it produced was by using certain "approved" writers, i.e. these women, but I agree, give the men their authentic voice. Peace out, brothas.

Aaron T.
October 5 2006, 8:40AM

Overall, I enjoyed this season more than last. I was very uncomfortable with the way Noah systematically went about insinuating himself back into Wade's life. He showed no respect whatsoever for Wade's relatioship or Dre, and he seemed to be totally unaware of the impact that his selfishness had on those around him (e.g., Wade, Dre, Malik, Quincy). Sometimes "sorry" is not enough. Hopefully he matures a bit in the next season.

John
October 5 2006, 8:45AM

I, too, found the finale disappointing and somewhat predictable. However, I am glad that it is on at all and that it has been as well received as it has.

Hopefully with renewal for a third season the writing AND the acting will improve, but I'll be back as an ardent fan just the same!

Harry Frazier
October 5 2006, 8:48AM

Overall I enjoyed the show this season and will continue to sppport the show by buying the DVD as soon as it available. BUT it should be no more then $19.99 because the season was way too short. There was a lot more they could have done with Baby GaT (my favorite character). His character respresenting a lot of people I know more then the principle characters because he was kinda walking that line...aware of his feelings and not afraid to show them but his public face was a bit different. Most of the people I know..SGL black men...WON'T be walking in Balls with your boyfriend. Baby Gat character has a lot of potential...and he was charming is his own way.

Next season I hope they bring him back and I hope its mush more then 8 episodes. But that will only happen if we support the show...talk the show up as Keith does on the site and demand they bring it back

Darian
October 5 2006, 8:52AM

When are people going to realize that Noah's Arc can't be all things to all people? I do believe that this show has been unfairly criticized since day one on so many different levels. For the first time someone has decided to tell our stories and bring them to a national audience. I can't remember a single time as a child turning on the television and watching characters that love the way I love.

On a side note: It's so blatantly obvious how hip hop culture has infected the minds and fashion sense of black gay men. When did we become so afraid of the effeminate man? Not every gay man is rockin' a jersey, sweats, fitted, and a pair of timbs.

Our community is extremely diverse, and although the character of Noah may not represent all of us, their is a portion of our community that identifies with him, and the same can be said for Wade. It's still a work in progress.

Bobby
October 5 2006, 9:21AM

No disrespect to the writers and creators, but this is one of the most uneven, poorly-written shows on television. Last night's episode was a horribly paced circus of the most uncompelling, self-indulgent, deus ex machina, contrived drama I've ever seen. My boyfriend and I laughed where we were supposed sympathize and rolled our eyes where we were supposed to laugh. I think this show suffers from trying to do too much in one season. Things are brought up and resolved (or never resolved) within the span of an episode of two. If this show is supposed to be serialized drama, in its current state, it works better as a meditation on how not to write serialized drama.

I love the idea of the show, but the show itself is almost unwatchable.

Cecil
October 5 2006, 9:38AM

The show left a bitter taste in my mouth. It shows the shallowness of being gay. It shows that gay men just want to b women, shashay all day long and then be bitchy as females can be at times while taking dik. Realize that straight folks watch the show and they are getting the wrong messages about gay black men. They don't see responsible behavior, commitment and true masculinity. No wonder we get a bad name as being superficial, sex addicts, pedophiles and non-commital fags looking for the next bigger penis of gold (which doesn't exist). This show sends a wrong message and it can allow others to bash and abuse us based on what they see on TV. Many of us are hardworking, dedicated and loving. I don't see those traits on that show. We deserve much more, but will we ask for more or just settle for what is shoved down our throats as quality programming? WHy don't they show the lives of gay men over age 50?

Seahawk
October 5 2006, 9:41AM

(1) For me, the most unbelievable thing about the show is the way SO MANY HOT MEN are falling for Noah. Even more incredible is the way Noah tosses them aside. Malik, Quincy and (sigh) Baby Gat are men that most brothers would give a left arm to be with. The fact that Noah can't feel any of them spells one thing: melodrama, i.e., artificial conflict.
(2) "Sex and the City" has been done. The comparisons were cute at first, but I hope the white women who are controlling the show can find a new template for the next season.
(3) Neither me, nor anyone I know, has been to a ball, or knows anything about it outside of "Paris is Burning." If Wade and Quincy were to be believed, they wouldn't be within ten miles of a runway.
(4) Noah is becoming increasingly unlikable, and I'm not sure why you would make your protagonist such an obsessive, cheating, dizzy queen. At least Carrie Bradshaw was strong and full of integrity. Fucking Wade in the bathroom was lowdown.

luddite
October 5 2006, 9:45AM

Bobby, your statement "I love the idea of this show, but the show itself is almost unwatchable" is the most apt description of this show. Like you and many other I desperately want this show to thrive and suceed. Yes, I know about the time constraints and that it "can't be all things to all people", but let's be real. The character "Noah" has become a shallow, bitchy, immature, queen. I find it more and more difficult to be sympathetic to this character. A grown man like Noah who looks and acts like a 16 year old girl is not going to generate much sympathy with anyone. Of course I'm being "Fem Phobic" and disrespectful of Mr. Polk's vision. In reality I prefer that the main character of this show have some substance and have more going on for him than drama, drag, and dick. Final thought: the acting has improved, but the scripts have not.

Bernard
October 5 2006, 9:46AM

I'm in agreement with Cecil and Seahawk.

Although, I didn't find last night's episode to be among the worst; however, it definitely wasn't good either.

It's a shame the character I thought was the most *real* and *I* could relate to was....Dre...and he, most likely, was killed off. Why? For what reason?

Here's to hoping Season 3 will rectify all this *drama* that was going on in Season 2

Blue
October 5 2006, 9:54AM

I have to agree that I am starting to dislike Noah ... as much as I hate to admit it. That whole bathroom sequence thing really bothered me. I mean, you'd think he would have learned his lesson about cheating and stuff. And I for one actually like Dre and was (and am, since he may still be alive) pulling for him. I hope they don't kill that character off.

But I'm gonna tell ya'll what is pissin' me off. Now, Noah got bashed just a few weeks back, and we aren't being given even a hint of how he's dealing with it. Granted, it's a short season - I know this. But it's almost like it never happened. Even in the episdoe where he was recovering, he screwed Wade. I'm like are you kidding me? That would be the last thing on my mind if I got hurt like that. I don't know I just feel like they need to deal with that.

As for the ball thing ... I'm not into it, but I know some folks who actually are ...

But, I still love the boys and will continue to support them!

Jay
October 5 2006, 10:05AM

Well it’s a love/hate thing and in some ways that’s good, obviously if I were writing Noah’s arc some things would be different, that is something we can all say.

However, I am more than thankful that Noah’s Arc exists, and has anyone noticed that the “Nigg@#” word has not been used, that is AWSUME!!!! And the characters aren’t on crack, or talking about the white man holding them down and that for me is “worth the price of the ticket”.

Thanks you Patrik-Ian Polk I will always be extremely grateful.

Jay W.

Kevin
October 5 2006, 10:20AM

Well firstly I love the show and what it stands for. I just think it has to be more developed. The first season was actually more entertaining to me. The second season just seemed a bit chaotic and it's kind of hard to sum up what the season was really about. I think it's impossible to do much in a season that's only eight 22 minute shows. We never really saw Wade and Dre interact at all. We never got to understand Guy on any real level. Wade and Noah never had any real communications about their failed relationship. It seemed more of a drama than a comedy this season but I think dramas have to be developed more than comedies. I hope they can extend the show and have more episodes so that these storylines can be properly developed like some of my other past/present show favorites like Grey's Anatomy, Sex and the City, and Six Feet Under.

Looking forward to another season.

Bernie
October 5 2006, 10:27AM

Middle of the first season, I made peace with the fact that this is just a tv show and not a documentary reflecting our real lives. Doing so allowed me to just sit back and accept it for what it is, a half hour diversion. Yes, I love seeing Black gay men on television, that is the most minimal connection I have to the show, but even though I want it to have a third (and fourth, and even fifth) season with more episodes per season, I find it lacking in basic storytelling skills. Too much is crammed into each episode with not even plot or character development, resulting in sketchy depictions and an inability to empathize with any of the characters.

Nevertheless, I support the show and hope LOGO recognizes the fan base it has and not only allows it to continue, but supports other producers with other ideas that more fully reflect the diversity within not only the gay community, but the Black gay community.

chris-leo
October 5 2006, 11:29AM

bobby? dead-on!! ...couldn't have said it better.

jay? i'm not a fan of the "N" word or crack, but one of the best-written and acted shows on television liberally uses Niga@#, and some of the characters are on crack, and it's called The Wire. i'm much more offended by bad writing and acting.

ALSO, try as they may, i knew the production was out of its depth when they fucked up the Dr. Guy resolution.

ALSO, with the exception of Alex and maybe Eddie, EVERY SINGLE PERSON in that cast has a SLAAAAAMMIN' beach body, and the only ones we saw in a bathing suit (BRIEFLY) were Chance and Eddie. AND they came all the way back to L.A. to shoot that scene!!! EXPLAIN THAT!!! SHOW OF HANDS - who wanted to see Trey, Dre, Wade, Junito, Ricky, Noah and Quincy in SWIMWEAR????!! W.T.F.??? ...not even shirtless??? how'd they miss that???

AND if we are to believe Noah's "i'm sorrys" meant a damned thing, he would've been giving Dre mouth to mouth as we faded out for the season.

Justin
October 5 2006, 11:37AM

I, for one, loved the finale! I found it exciting, visually entertaining and jam-packed with drama. Being someone who hasn't gone to many balls- I loved that scene. And seeing Quincy and Wade & Dre in those speedo outfits was hot- to see gay blk men who are not so rigid in their ideas of what it means to be a GBM that they can participate in an event like that. I listened to an interview with Polk on NPR yesterday and it's clear he's not trying to make a series focusing on the thuggish or the hyper-masculine male. Accept it for what it is.

And who are these "white women" writers many of you mentioned controlling the show? If you've read any of the interviews with the creator, or hell, just watched the credits- then you know there are no women writing this show period. Patrik-Ian Polk writes the show along with black gay british filmmaker Rikki Beadle-Blair (creator of the excellent black british tv series "Metrosexuality"). So I don't know who these white female writers y'all suddenly drummed up are. LOL

ALLEGRO
October 5 2006, 11:54AM

Albeit, season two was better than season one....it was all the guest actors they had that can truly take the credit for it. I found them to be more interesting and skilled than the regulars. I don't know what happened, but starting with the whole ALEX/TREY/GUY SOAP OPERAISH plot...things just went down hill for me once again with this show. Last nigth was no exception. I thought the season finale was CHEESY and MELODRAMATIC. THUMBS DOWN!!!! It only serves to highlight the lack of original storytelling and mediocre acting that exists on the show.I mean the car crash ending totally reaked of DYNASTY's MOLDAVIA MASSACRE cliffhanger.....WHO LIVES? WHO DIES? I'm so sick of NOAH and his confusion...and this level of confusion is even exhibited in his gender bending fashions. In a sense, didn't the show end like in a similar fashion as last season with NOAH being caught in the bathroom with someone he should not have been with and someone end up going to the hosptial because of it? GOOD GRIEF!!!

Michael
October 5 2006, 12:05PM

Comments are rather interesting! At the end of the day, I stop and think, "This is still just entertainment!" Yes, it should relate to life in some way, but it is still a general message that is meant to captivate a general audience, not implore them to be cults followers of something so deadly specific. I like the show, and for a rather new show, I think it has its pros and cons. I mean, television exists not to please but to entertain. I think it is safe to conclude that on some level, whether you like the show or not, you are at the end of the day entertained, allbeit, positively r negatively.

Harry Frazier
October 5 2006, 12:37PM

I agree about Dre too...I liked him and I hope they don't kill him off. He was solidly behind Wade...much more trustworthy then Noah. And Wade and Dre seemed to be a better fit. Don't wanna get into the fem vs butch thing again...but come on...Dre and Wade looked like a real couple that would share same interests (football, b'ball, etc), have the same type of friends and live a more compatible lifestyle with each other.

VOTE FOR DRE!!!

VOTE FOR BABY GAT!!!

Quincy...not so much!

But all teh "Constructive" criticiszm aside...we should still support the show...this is ground breaking and we should not lose sight of that as we strive to make the show better

ALLEGRO
October 5 2006, 12:57PM

Since NOAH's ARC seems to be taking the tone of a CHEESYNIGHT TIME SOAP OPERA...ala....DYNASTY....I have a few predictions of what to expect next season...if there is a NEXT SEASON...lol....

We will return to a new season where ALEX and TREY are gleefully happy with their newly adopted child. they are the picture perfect family. When...their new bundle of joy is KIDNAPPED from the playground. Who's the wretched KIDNAPPER....why none other than GUY. If he can't have his man...he'll make sure their lives are a living hell.

Fresh from the MOLDAVIA MASSACRE...I mean car crash...WADE indeed survives. But wait...he has amnesia..and reembers nothing of NOAH or his homosexual desires and reverts back to his heterosexual ways. Meanwhile...DRE unfortunately dies...but at his funeral...we are introduced to DRE's bitchified twin brother who goes on a quest to revenge his brother's death by plotting to kill NOAH.

Wait...wait....there's more. lol

hood2big
October 5 2006, 1:03PM

Afterb watching this episode twice, the second time I focused more on the events of the day and I to was displeased. But I caution everyone about protesting to loudly we could run the risk of the shows cancellation. I have this conversation frequently about other popular shows ( the wire, prison break,24 ) in which one has to suspend reality to sit back and enjoy. True the writing could be alot better, but I encourage those that have good writing skills submit your ideas and try to make things better. Just my 2 cents.

Blue
October 5 2006, 1:20PM

Allegro - LMAO!

LOL. I love the show to death, but what you just said is hilarious to me, especially since I loved "Dallas" and "Knots Landing" as a kid in the 80s. You are a mess. And the sad part is, I could see at least one of those scenarios playing out - especially the kidnapping thing. Hey, it's entertainment after all, so I'd eat it up! LOL

ALLEGRO
October 5 2006, 1:30PM

DARIAN....how can you be so hypocritical in criticizing others for being critical of the show. I mean you haven't been all that kind in many of the PINKMAFIARADIO podcast reviews of season two you've done. Just as freely as you express your opinions...aren't others allowed to do the same...even if means being critical. Many of the issues pointed out by some of the posters here are no different than what I've heard on those podcasts.

Black
October 5 2006, 1:35PM

I like Noah's Arch but like most things it could use some improvement. The show needs to DOUBLE-SIZE: double each show and double the season. That would improve the show. We should send e-mails to the LOGO channel asking them to renew the show for a 3rd season & to make improvements. In addition, I think there is enough time for them to start shooting now so we can maybe see some new episodes by January.

ks25
October 5 2006, 1:36PM

I am not going to completely knock Noah's Arc because there are very positive elements on the show. One the show challenges the hypermasculine Black male DL image that is being portrayed in rap music in mainstream Black culture!
However, I think it does not address the everyday racism homosexuals and bisexual men of color face on a daily by the White GLBTQ communities and institutions in American society. It shows very little interaction with White folks which is not the reality for most homosexual communties of color.
Furthermore, where are the family members with the characters? We know a big issue in our communities is issues of acceptance tolerance in our families, chruch, commumity etc.
It is like the show is letting the white gay community off the hook about the racism and shade the through to communities of color homosexual, bisexual, and even heterosexual.

kc
October 5 2006, 2:08PM

Well, this is the first time but I have never watched the show before. But, I am sure to find the DVD's and try to see what this NA- Noah's Arc is all about. Judging from the comments ..............damn I just looked forward to the show before I make any comment- I must be in the boondocks or something. Knew of the show but never, never got to watch it. Oh well, everyone I meet knows something I dont, so I am only too willing to learn.

castiron
October 5 2006, 2:08PM

Is the writing staff of this show primarily white women? I hope the answer is no.

kc
October 5 2006, 2:38PM

Well, this is the first time but I have never watched the show before. But, I am sure to find the DVD's and try to see what this NA- Noah's Arc is all about. Judging from the comments ..............damn I just looked forward to the show before I make any comment- I must be in the boondocks or something. Knew of the show but never, never got to watch it. Oh well, everyone I meet knows something I dont, so I am only too willing to learn.

Mark
October 5 2006, 2:41PM

I have mixed views of the finale. But, I will say this, I do realize that it's entertainment and the writing of one or more people who either have a good or mediocre perception of the Black, Gay community.

Anywho, doesn't it seem predictable that Wade will survive not only survive, but will be resentful toward Noah and blame him for Dre's (oh please no....I really hope not) death. Then we will have another season of Noah following Wade around to get him to "talk". I see it so clearly.

Troy
October 5 2006, 2:45PM

I think back eons ago to that very small summer day when I first heard about Noah's Arc and was sent mail about it and a handwritten message from Mr. Polk and yet his vision; not gay straight, femme or whatever came through in that letter and I got a glimpse of someone who had heart. For that alone will always stand out to me.
“Therefore encourage one another...”
I THESSALONIANS 5:11 NIV

Steven
October 5 2006, 3:08PM

Castiron: There are no white women writing on this show. The show is written by creator Patrik-Ian Polk, black gay english writer/director Rikki Beadle Blair and gay british author/playwright/screenwriter John R. Gordon. Somebody pulled this "white women writing on the show" thing out of their ass, lol.

And what makes anyone think that Dre likes sports? We've gotten no indication of any of this. So I can only assume you're basing this on how he looks- which, quite frankly isn't all that butch, really. The fact that he walked in the "Ovahness Ball" is actually an interesting turn. Anyone who knows anything about the ball scene knows that not all participants are queeny- it's just as diverse as any. Just check out the "male sex siren" categories- enough buff eye candy to make any dude's nipples hard.

It's funny to me how delusional many of us gay black men are about our various levels of masculinity and femininity. Wake up, people. The majority of us are not hyper-masculine thugs.

Adam
October 5 2006, 3:11PM

WHAT THE HELL IS THE PROBLEM PEOPLE HAVE WITH BALLS
lets be real and get into that please.
sexism please.

Blackgayguy
October 5 2006, 3:11PM

Just ain't making you people happy is it? The show is not going to be all things to all people, just like any other show. I think that its great to have a show about black men general that is at least trying to put us in a positive light. I for one tire of the thug image that shows utilize and the insipid use of that N-word as if thats part of all black peoples culture, it isn't in mine nor my social circle. The ball thing? I for one have never been to one, and didn't even know it existed in LA? But, its part of SOME mens lives, so why not show something about it? My only gripe is the shortness of the season, they should do it like the Spanish novellas which I love, run it for at least 13 weeks, and tie up the loose ends in a way that actually follows the plot. Now, ya'll sit back and get ready for season 3, which IMO will only be better!

Blue
October 5 2006, 3:12PM

Thank you Steven! Bravo! Could not have said it better myself. We all know these hyper masucline negroes are homothugs in the streets and bitches in the sheets. Let's just be real ya'll!

James in ATL
October 5 2006, 3:25PM

Kudos to the actors,creators, and LOGO channel for this season of Noah Arc- this show has been a long time coming and I appreciate the representation and efforts put forth to have it onscreen. I agree with others that there are opportunities to improve upon the show, but you know what, there are opportunities to improve in most areas of life-- including our own. The important thing is that the show keeps getting better season after season- the effort is being made to produce quality programming.

For those who complain about it being only (8) episodes--guess what? You just may have the power to change that- start a financial campaign to raise the money needed to produce a longer running show. Too often in our community we criticize the work of others without ever taking the time to assist in making things happen. Turn the criticism of this show into a positive promotion of change to improve upon the work. We will all benefit or simply get your own show and lets see if you can do any better.

Jaye
October 5 2006, 3:33PM

First off, I must say everyone on here has made some great comments about the show. I agree with most!

I will be SHO-NUFF pissed if they kill off Dre. Dre has more integrity in pinky finger, than Noah has in his entire wanna be "Carrie" from "Sex and the City" body. They (the writers of course) for some reason have gone the SKANK route with Noah. Again most of you guys on here have already said a lot things I would have said.

No matter what, let's continue to support this show and put the pressure on Logo for a longer third season, and hour long episodes.

nb_luddite
October 5 2006, 4:04PM

Allegro: you need to get your script to Patrik Ian Polk ASAP! It's better than what they have been working with.

If you can include huge shoulder pads and big hair (ala Dynasty) for Noah and his friends I will forever be in your debt!

http://www.imdb.com/gallery/mptv/1320/Mptv/1320/9295_0033.jpg?path=pgallery&path_key=Collins,%20Joan%20(I)

ALLEGRO
October 5 2006, 4:04PM

PART II- Season three predictions....

CHANCE and EDDIE hire a nanny now that EDDIE ia back at work and CHANCE needs to fiish his book. They bring in young woman who is new to the city. She seems highly reputable and ADORES Kenya....perhaps a little too much. It is revealed that the "NANNY" is actually KENYA's biological mother. She engages CHANCE and EDDIE in a HEATED custody battle and uses the time she spent with them as a "NANNY" to gain access to information about them and their realtionship to use against them in court. She reveals some very scandalous pics of EDDIE and CHANCE in the jacuzzi.

And RICKY.....poor RICKY...he finally faces his demons and seeks help from SEXAHOLICS ANONYMOUS only to be kicked out after it is discovered that he's had sex with all of the group members...including his sponsor.

Blue
October 5 2006, 4:07PM

Allegro, LOL, we gotta get you a job at one of the networks, LOL. Love it, love it!

Larry
October 5 2006, 4:31PM

ummm One question....

Wade & Dre drove off in a melodramatic state worthy of a Shangri-La's record (Leader of the Pack anyone) yet when the gang arrives on the accident scene...umm...all we see is Wade....

DOESN'T ANYONE GIVE A SHIT ABOUT DRE, Or did he get immediately beamed up to the "upper room"

Poor Dre...does anyone beside me care for Dre?

Pepper Labeija
October 5 2006, 4:47PM

....Um...I...love...Dynasty.... but anyway. My biggest beef with this season is the length. If I recall correctly the first season was nine episodes and they moved production to Canada so they could do more with the second season, yet we only got eight episodes this season. this felt more like one of those one-time Jackie Collins mini series than a regular series season. Eight episodes, c'mon now.

Jared
October 5 2006, 5:33PM

Seahawk, I loved Sex and the City as much as the next homosexual, but remember Carrie slept with Big when he was married to Natasha - so her intergrity that you speak of wavered too. We are all human and Noah sleeping with Wade is not unrealistic or inconceivable. We have all had a moral lapse of jusdgement here and there. It trips me out when ya'll get on here acting all self-righteous!

Hilal
October 5 2006, 5:51PM

Seems Baby Gat was a popular character for most on here. I am one of them as well. It was just abrupt that we never actually figure what happened to him. returned back to England? his appearnces was the highlight for me this season. Someone mentioned Riccki beedle-Blair, yes a fantastic writer/producer/actor in England. if you have not seen Metrosexuality, better see it now or own it on DVD.

clay
October 5 2006, 7:36PM

OMG ... Allegro you are the FOOL for your predications of Noah's Arc ..... I am dying w/ laughter over here ... the kidnapped baby, the evil twin, amnesia, the bitter nanny ... you have all the elements -- can you just add that DRE was secretly a millionaire -- days before the accident (and the planned marriage proposal) DRE made a will leaving all of his millions to WADE. Another reason why the evil twin must come back to kill NOAH and WADE ... however, being the backstabbing queen that NOAH is he teams up with the DRE'S twin to KILL WADE and go half on the millions ... all of this will take about 5 episodes and we can call it season THREE!

ps. i like Noah's Arc - I just found Allegro to be hilarious and i had to add ...

afro_asian_american
October 5 2006, 7:41PM

I believe that the season finale could have been better. I agree with a lot of what has already been posted. I think the whole "ball" thing is ridiculous. I have never heard of it and after seeing it I highly doubt that Wade, Dre, Quincy, or myself would be willing to participate in it. I also was upset with the "car crash ending" I thought it was really messed up how everybody went to Wade but nobody checked on Dre. I really hope that they dont kill off Dre's character. He is my favorite along with Baby Gat. I was also hoping that Wade and Noah wouldn't get back together. I personally think that Dre and Wade make a better and more realistic couple. But besides all of that I do like the show and I hope it comes back for season 3 and I also hope that it gets better.

ray
October 5 2006, 10:02PM

unlike some of the posters here, I liked the season finale, although as someone else said, I cant understand what all these sexy men see in Noah! Besides, he could have been with Wade in season 1 - HE is the one who screwed that relationship up! Wade would be better off staying with Dre (who I hope isnt dead)!
I'll be looking forward to next season!

kbg
October 6 2006, 12:05AM

hey
love the fact that the show is there
enjoy it as fun and gr8 eye candy
BUT
WE SHOULD ALL BE DEMANDING THAT IT CONTINUE TO IMPROVEI
even better acting, writing,direction, production design and genuine, storylines featuring the REAL ACTORS on the show Chance, Baby Gat, Quincy, Junito...
why do some of the weakest, least skilled actors have the so much airtime?

WE HAVE TO TELL LOGO WE WATCH, WE WANT MORE and WE WANT IT EVEN BETTER!

IT SHOULD BE THE HALLMARK and ANCHOR OF LOGO,(it is even with flaws, but they don't support such!)

EVERY EPISODE SHOULD BE A CHALLENGE TO HBO and SHOWTIME and FX AND THE NETWORKS TO DO SOMETHING AS PROFOUND, SEXY, ENTERTAINING and as IMPORTANT AS AN ONGOING PORTRAIT OF OUR DIVERSE SGL/LGBT BROTHAS OF COLOR, LIVING, LOVING LAUGHING, LEARNING and CELEBRATING LIFE!
isn't that the show we are hoping N.A. will be every week?
sometimes it is, but too often it isn't

DEMAND IT! WRITE LOGO NOW!
Just like the USA, NOAH'S ARC? LOVE IT AND CHANGE IT! peace

Stanford
October 6 2006, 10:20AM

Anyone know the names of the songs played when
1) Quincy and Noah were preparing for the ball at the beginning of the episode

2)The songe being played during Trey's photo shoot ?

Great songs..not so great finale

Derrick from Philly
October 6 2006, 10:55AM

I don't want to start no trouble, BUT whenever y'all get on the subject of Noah's Arc and Noah's feminine ways, one thing always enters my mind: I've met so many gay men in my life who thought they were typical masculine guys who just happened to have a "different" sex life. They believe they are "undetectable" to straight and gay people. I'll say this again, if I (or any queen) can tell that you are gay before we actually meet you, it's because we see certain traits, mannerisms, way of walking, speech sound, that are familiar to us "queens". That's how we decide who's gay. True, some guys on the DL and homothugs may fool us, but not for long. And even if homothugs and DLs do fool us, who the f__k cares? We got enough "bottoms" in The Life. We don't have time to be teachin' no homothugs proper booty hygiene.

Noah's Arc has a feminine black gay male as its main character. If you don't like it then go to some DL porn site and be happy...or watch that homothug on "The Wire"...realism? child, please

BLAthlete
October 6 2006, 11:23AM

Derrick, you seem incredibly defensive about the topic of effeminate Black men. I'm going to post something here that I also posted a few weeks ago at a Moah's ARc message board elsewhere:

"I may get roasted for these observations, but you men and women are a bit deluded if you think that someone like Noah would be as desired by so many really attractive, masculine black men in real life. And to be honest, although the show is a bit entertaining, it's the unrealistic fantasy aspects like this that take away from the show. For these reasons, I can't take this show any more seriously than I can a Spanish novella or "Dynasty" - both of which I also have enjoyed.

Loi Wade
October 6 2006, 11:43AM

Although I enjoyed the content of this season, I still can't believe how short it was. Now we have to wait almost an entire YEAR for next season. That is going to be nerve wrecking! What the hell were they thinking? If you ask me,' the white powers that be' at logo are a little on the jealous side. They were ignored so bad at the glaad awards(did you hear that pitiful applause?)I wouldn't be surprised if they weren't deliberately trying to ruin their ratings. Beware of smiling faces! Now for something a little more lighthearted! Was it just me, or did Quincy look like he wanted to slap the shit out of Noah? One of his flings are going to eventually do that because yall know if this were real,he would have to leave town!

jared
October 6 2006, 11:43AM

I don't think he all that femmine, well, maybe just a tad, but, it works for the charachter, the big old bottom boy for the alleged "manly" guys. And, none of them come off as all that mascuile in my book anyway. My only issue with him is that he is way to oversexed! Good grief, this guy gets laid more than the tramp does, and he isn't all that "hot" in my opinion to begin with. And, what's up with the sex in a toliet, gross, was it safe sex or just getting thier rocks off?

BLAthlete
October 6 2006, 11:53AM

pt.2

"I have been in this life since I was 15 years old -- which was not exactly yesterday for me -- and I'd estimate over the years, I have met and know tens of thousands of black gay and bisexual men. The truth is the vast majority of most black gay and bisexual men prefer more masculine-looking and acting men. Not saying ALL, but the vast majority, yes. Certainly this is the case with more recently with the whole cultural trend of thugs, DL and hip-hop, but this is not that new a phenomenon. The idea this show is attempting to promulgate -- that all these masculine, built, hyper-attractive men are attracted to queens, whether it's the supposedly free-spirited, poncho-wearing, processed-hair-like-Jermaine Stewart Noah, or its the loud, sassy, out-of-shape Big Momma Alex -- is completely unrealistic and does everyone a disservice when trying to create an honest discussion about black gay men in America."

BLAthlete
October 6 2006, 12:28PM

pt.3
"Is it POSSIBLE for guys like Noah or Alex to snag all these hot masculine, built, muscled boyfriends in the real world (assuming they are not paying for it, which face it -- does happen)? Yes, it IS possible. And sure, everyone can provide some anecdotal evidence of where it actually did happen once or twice. But is it LIKELY? No, it's highly UNlikely. Is it COMMON, as is suggested on the show? Hell, No!

I can see two groups of people wanting to fall into this fantasy: (1) straight women (who are far more comfortable with dealing with softer, prettier, effeminate, non-threatening, stereotypical gay men then having to deal with the threat of a masculine one), and (2) other effeminate gay men (who desperately want to believe that they, too, can have guys like Wade or Quincy or Tre falling at their feet)."

END

Jared
October 6 2006, 1:09PM

As an effeminate black gay man - and I dare I say an attarctive one, the only men who are usually attracted to me are masculine men. These are attractive, masculine, in my age range men (I'm 24) that I do not pay for. Sure, I'm not as feminine as Noah (which is totally subjective), but effete nonetheless, and I have never had problems attracting masculine men, whether they be out or not.

I am not in the house/ball scene, but I know of people who are. For those of you claiming ignorant about the scene, there are men like Wade, Dre, and Quincy who exist in this scene. Masculine men have always particpated in this scene, and some of you probably have dated them and not known it because you stigmatize the activity so that they are afraid to tell you they are involved. I hope one day that you open your eyes and expose yourself to more than what you are accustomed to seeing and experiencing. I believe black gay men can be the worst self-righteous elists.

Derrick from Philly
October 6 2006, 1:38PM

BLAthlete:
Yes, I'm "defensive" about many gay men's statements concerning feminine males. In 2003, I first commented on Keith's blog, and, of course, the topic was the "DL". Initially, the guys who defended the DL lifestyle criticized all openly gay men. Then they narrowed their assault to just femms and drag queens, and their insults were ruthless. I ask, how the hell can gay men be so judgemental toward gender role outlaws while straight folks consider y'all to be sexual outlaws? The arrogance of masculine (and wannabe masculine)identified gays, SGLs and DLs astounds me. They insult feminine males the same way straight guys do even though they've seen femms who are real human beings and not stereotypes--no one is a stereotype once they speak from their soul. It's the same process white racists practice: using unfair stereotypes to judge all blacks. Y'all encounter an evil queen and "she" represents all queens. If that's ok, then the racist view that all blacks are dumb violent niggers is ok too.

BLAthlete
October 6 2006, 1:42PM

Jared, didn't you just post an hour ago that you didn't think that Noah was all that effeminate? And now you are saying that you are effeminate yet you are not as effeminate as Noah? So either you are completely contradicting yourself, or you are suggesting that the Noah character is very effeminate.

I am very familiar with the ball/house scene in the major cities, most notably NYC and DC. You are right, masculinity and effeminacy MUST be very subjective, because I don't view those guys as very masculine. They may look the part on the stage, but that's about it.

Not saying this is you, because I do not know you, but I do find that, in general, it's harder for effeminate men to judge the outward masculinity of another male. Often times what they consider "masculine" is really a drag- or cartooned- effeminate fantasy version of it.

You want to talk about "effemophobia" (a made-up term), but why aren't two effeminate guys seen on the show as a couple? The truth is: that doesn't spark queens' fantasies.

Tyler-
October 6 2006, 2:37PM

Good day Mr. Boykin,

Please attach a direct link to the comment section of the LoGo Website. Everyone of these comments needs to be recognized, even if it they aren't honored.

In the event that this program is not renewed, WE will have no one to blame... NOT the OVER acting, horribly written script, "TO GAY" a representation, or anything else! This because LOGO can and will most probably say "there was not enough interest in the program."

Whatever we don't like or like about it... Noahs Ark is NEEDED. If but for no other reason than to give us a comprehensive conversation opener at the club, bar or where ever. It IS needed if for no other reason than to show us what NOT to wear, or how NOT to behave, or what NOT to do in certain situations... LOGO needs to know, that at least there ARE conversations about the program.

BTW... I LOVE NOAH'S ARK!!

This because I understand the concept of LOVE... acceptance, INSPITE of ...

TTS.

chris-leo
October 6 2006, 3:14PM

for the record, i have no problem with ball culture or the depiction of queens on television. my only beef is with what i consider lapses in logic and quality.

since i doubt there are networks clamoring for the next gay, black show, THIS IS IT!!!...for a while, so we're all invested. i resent that precious screen time went to this OVAHNESS BALL that could've been used to develop Dre's reaction to the Noah/Wade's tryst, or to the quicky Junito/Ricky breakup.

quite frankly, i'm getting tired of the pageantry trumping the performance on this show - style over substance. ALSO somebody needs to find a dramatic tone for this series...FAST!!! is it a farce? a pageant? a satire? a wordplay comedy? a drama? a melodrama? a thriller? a musical? we all see what happens when filmmakers can't find the tone - Showgirls? Valley of the Dolls? suddenly things get unintentionally funny and you have a camp classic on your hands. if it's to be a trashy soap, then dammit - GO FOR IT! and hire ALLEGRO!

chris-leo
October 6 2006, 3:33PM

this black/gay Sex and The City business was cute at the beginning, but what the hell is Noah’s Arc??? Sex and The City was a crisp half-hour with voice-overs to bridge scenes and deepen our understanding of Carrie’s motivations, AND BOY DO WE NEED TO UNDERSTAND NOAH’S MOTIVATIONS BETTER. i’ve enjoyed many episodes, but I’ve detested almost as many. That just doesn’t make sense. It doesn’t have to be perfect, but it ought to be better than this. everyone’s working hard, BUT there are too many great playwrights and too many black gay boys who went to performing arts high school and have degrees in theatre, film and drama for this to be the best we can do.

sorry to ruffle any feathers, but please get back to the drawing board, roll up your sleeves, spend more energy writing, and re-writing and re-writing and rehearsing and rehearsing some more and less energy shopping for Darryl’s wardrobe or trying to retro-fit the latest hit song into the soundtrack, and maybe season three will be something better.

Blue
October 6 2006, 3:51PM

I post on that Board you refer to Blathlete and I'm fairly certain we had an exchange about this very topic. I'm just going to say this - say what you want, but the only reason so-called "masculine" gay men don't like fems is because we remind them of what they are - black gay men. You negroes think you're fooling people, you think you are more respectable, and the fact remains that at the end of the day, you're a faggot to the straight population just like me or anybody else. Dress it up however you want. And yes, I'm defensive because it's a dumb discussion to have. It wouldn't be any more realistic to watch a bunch of Wades on the show than the Wade/Noah combos. This DL/homothug bullshit has completely distorted the way gay black men view themselves. It's sad to me. But, fuck it - I'm gonna be me. The DLs, and the "masculines" can continue getting married, sneaking around in chatrooms and doing whatever the hell else they do.

Derrick from Philly
October 6 2006, 4:11PM

Yes, BLAthlete, most feminine males aren't sexually into each other, but some are. Are truly masculine men sexually interested in each other? Ooops. And you may have hit on something when you wrote about our view of masculinity as a "drag or cartoon fantasy version of it." But, my God, how realistic is this DL fantasy that so many black gay men try to bring to real life. These same gay men who look like NFL runningbacks and put on a street thug posture often have a sissy friend who remembers them back when...
As for dating, what makes Jared's dating life so full (besides his youth and beauty) is that he's smart. He doesn't have the rigid view of masculinity that us queens from my generation did. I rarely went to a gay bar expecting to go home with anyone. What I wanted was on the streets of NOrth Philly. Trade(unlike DLs) never seemed interested in one's "man body parts".
Of course, sex is part fantasy.
Is Noah's Arc a queen's fantasy? Maybe? Maybe Wade is Trade...he don't like no rough stuff.

BLAthlete
October 6 2006, 4:45PM

Blue, I'm glad you post here too, and can respond b/c that other board quite frankly seems to be inundated with far more straight women who enjoy the show but know very little about the black gay male experience.

No, Blue that's NOT the only reason that masculine gay men do not "like" fems. One simpler reason is that (like me) they have no issue with them personally, other than 1. they do not find them sexually attractive and 2. they find the perpetuation of negative stereotypes troubling.

You insist on bringing up the "DL / thug" culture? I wasn't speaking of that. We can all safely agree how toxic that is. I'm referring to masculine black gay/bisexual men. There IS a difference. Just as you wouldn't appreciate me saying that all feminine gay men are loud-mouth, sassy, snap queens, don't suggest to me that all masculine black gay men are stereotypical DL thugs who cheat on their wives.

Again, answer: why not show two fem guys as a couple? I mean, if they're REALLY so desired and all...

Jared
October 6 2006, 4:55PM

BLAthelete: There are two Jareds commenting - I am the Jared in red that you are responding to. I hope that straightens up any confusion concerning the comments.

Your resposne about effete men not being able to distinguish between what is really masculine and what is a cartoonish version is valid, however I think it pertains to men without an exapnded view of the world. Masculinity like anything varies on a spectrum according to perspective. The men that I have dated have been indeed masculine to not only myself but other masculine men and have passed 'litmus tests' with heterosexuals. That is not the point though. I believe there are truly 'masculine' men who date truly 'effeminate' men. We have all seen these couples before everywhere.

Blue
October 6 2006, 5:03PM

Why not show two fem guys together? Most relationships aren't configured that way. No, the more masculine of the two in the pair may not be a Wade, but I can't think of a single couple I've known comprised of two queens, or two Wades for that matter. It's an issue of compatibility. Like I said on the other board, I'm hardly a queen, but I'm not masculine either. So, queens don't hit on me 'cause I am not their thing. I don't know ... I didn't mean to get vulgar but this is an issue I am increasingly getting agitated by. When my best friend of 11 years told me THIS bullshit is the reason he dates white men, I cringed and criticized him. But now I see he may have been right. You have implied on more than one occassion that gay men who aren't masculine are undesirable, even though you say you don't believe that. You don't have to say it outright, it's come thru in everything you've posted.

BLAthlete
October 6 2006, 5:18PM

Derrick, I have read many of your posts over the past few months, and although you have had some interesting life experiences to say the least, you CLEARLY have some "issues". "Truly masculine men aren't sexually into each other"? What the f**k? Two masculine gay/bi men can do the very same things behind closed doors as a masc and fem guy can -- the parts are (usually) the same. If you think someone's outward appearance dictates their sexual position, that speaks volumes about you and your observational inabilities. Secondly, do not compare your experiences with "north Philly trade" with that of masculine black gay or bisexual men. Trade is a whole different phenom. Trade = prison/street culture/drug addiction/sex in exchange for money or goods. Beggars aren't too choosey.

Again, I'm not saying that more effeminate men aren't desired AT ALL. I'm saying that it is not as common as this show is attempting to lead one to think. We can all come up with one or two examples but they are EXCEPTIONS, not the RULE

BLAthlete
October 6 2006, 5:37PM

Blue, if you're saying that 2 fem guys or 2 masc guys can't be together because they always end up in fem/masc pairings, then your experiences are CLEARLY different than the ones I have had and the ones of most of the thousands and thousands of black gay men that I have known in over 22 years of being in this Life. I know and see in real life, FAR more Wade / Dre, Tre / Guy, Quincy / Baby Gat pairings, or to even less extremes Eddie/Chance or Ricky / Junito pairings than I do Noah / Wade or Alex / Tre. I don't have a scientific figure (that would be an interesting study!), but off the top of my head, I'd guess-timate it is about 85% masc-masc / 15% masc-fem pairings. Maybe YOUR observations and experiences have been far different with Black American gay men in the last quarter century than mine, so maybe we live on different planets or something. Like, I live on Earth, and you, BizarroWorld.

Blue
October 6 2006, 5:37PM

Well, this is just an agree to disagree thing based solely on personal experience. None of what I've seen in the last few posts is surprising to me. I'm done with this topic. Like I said, I'm gonna do me. Everybody's concepts of exceptions and rules are obviously relative based on a number of factors. But these negroes on these boards kill me - like someone else said, nobody wants to own up to familiarity with ball culture and other shit like that for fear of getting their "masculine brother" card revoked. We all know it. All I can say is black gay men need to open their minds. We can't expect other folks to open up to us if we aren't even open to what we are. ALL black gay men should be celebrated; elitist, closet-leaning "masculine" men should hardly be slinging mud and pushing what they deem as queens to the bottom of the totem pole when they are a spot or two away from it themselves. Leave that for that straights. Like I said, I'm done here.

Derrick from Philly
October 6 2006, 5:42PM

Blue, there are many gay black men who do not have such a shallow criteria of what's sexually/romantically acceptable. I've been surprised these last few years to find black gay men who didn't seem to mind my feminine ways, although a couple of them argued that I wasn't feminine. By "feminine" they meant loud and flamboyant. But I've also had black gay men who I found sexually attractive who found me too, let's say, Joan Crawford-ish.
Blue, I'm sorry your friend felt he had to turn to white men to be sexually acceptable. My whole issue with BLATHlete is that he approches with a superior attititude. As though femms are just waiting,yearning,longing to join the black gay REAL men's club. I remember in the mid 1970s when I first felt the rejection of black gay men who thought I was too feminine (and glamorous, darlin'). I felt, what the fuck is there to reject, I don't want you. You're my "sista'", sista'. I don't dyke. See what I mean, the arrogance of masculinity. They make sissies say mean thing

BLAthlete
October 6 2006, 6:08PM

See there. Derrick and Blue, if you think so many masculine gay Black men say such "mean things" about you (again, I'm at a loss to determine where I actually said anything "mean"), there's a simple solution: just start dating other effeminate men. So, why aren't YOU attracted to them, again? Since you're not so "shallow" and all...

I have plenty of effeminate male friends. I'm just not romantically or sexually interested in them. I also have plenty of gorgeous female friends who I don't want to sleep with. It's not a "put-down" to say that you aren't attracted to someone. You just aren't. That doesn't make them less human, less intelligent or less capable. And it's certainly not mean or cruel to state the obvious: that it's not very common in the real world for a fem black man to be as pursued by so many masculine black men as Noah is.

Derrick from Philly
October 6 2006, 6:22PM

"two masculine gay/bi men can do the very same things behind closed doors..."

Oh, man, (see, I called you "man"), that ain't my point. Can gay/SGL/DL men completely separate themselves from the heterosexual sex roles that were all they knew from age 1 minute old to about age 16 years old? CAn they erase the "passive" to "dominant" dynamic? And if they can, HOORAY for them! I don't mind the DIVERSITY in the black gay, SGL, DL world. Do guys like you mind it? Do you mind the existence of gender bending black males?
Just don't put me down, brotha', 'cause you DON'T know everything about queens like me. Yes, Trade cost money nowadays, but they didn't in 1978. So, I can't use 'em now...well, not much. And if you ask some YOUNG pretty queen nowadays, I'm NOT sure that "trade" costs money to them, anymore than to a real YOUNG female.

Child,I mean, man, you make me think of Alexander The Great. He liked males too, yeah, but young, pretty Eunuch males--soft and tender. And that's why I say, WADE IS TRADE!

jared
October 6 2006, 6:30PM

Kind of funny seeing the whole masculine/femmine thing going on. I have a friend who is what many would call a total loud Queen, and as he has said he has been to bed with "masculine" men who scream loud as any woman in bed when he is doing his thing to them, so, what you see on the streets isn't excatly what you get between the sheets! But, I do think that there are quite a few guys who do like men who are a little moe soft, kind of like what Wade said when he first met Noah. Some like them rough and tough, and some like them soft and sweet, to each his own, and one thing about the effete guys, they do keep it real at all times, not for me, but I do repect them for it.

BLAthlete
October 6 2006, 6:41PM

Derrick, no one is putting you down, at least not me. And hooray for diversity! But (as plenty here have also stated) would you prefer to sacrifice reality, logic and intelligent discourse just for the sake of foisting highly unlikely pairings, all in the name of "diversity"? Would it be fairer to simply acknowledge these real-world disparities and intelligently present storylines that address this? What about, for example, Noah being alone or rejected because of his effiminacy? Alex losing his man to a more muscled, attractive, educated and richer one? No, 'cause in Patrik's world, the queens ALWAYS get the man.

OK, I get it, so, Patrik wants a world where black fem gay guys are sexually, romantically and creatively the center of the universe of hot, muscular, masculine black men everywhere, but this is NOT the real world. It does not make me uncomfortable to see these images and pairings at all, it just gives this show yet another reason to make it even harder to identify with for its lack of realism.

allegro
October 6 2006, 6:47PM

Do I sense some...EFFEMIPHOBIA(ala Quincy).....going on?

TEE HEE HEE....hey...I thought it was funny. Yall lighten up.

Derrick from Philly
October 6 2006, 6:55PM

It AINT the real world, BLAthele, it's T E L E V S I O N! I deserve my fantasy too, and Patrick Ian Polk is giving it to me. Hey, BLAthlete, have you done much research on homosexuality thoughout the varous civilizations on this planet. This idea of a masculine to masculine homo lifesyle seems to be very Eurocentric. BUT that's OK, DAMMIT! All we femms, queens, drag queens, sissies say is, "Don't worry me, brotha'... I'm out hea' to have a good time just like you, brotha'. Don't start talkin' that shit about, " if I wanted a woman, I'd get a real woman, not some imitation..." Where? From the female school for the Deaf and Dumb?

WADE IS TRADE.

BLAthlete
October 6 2006, 7:13PM

Well, Derrick, the last time I checked, "Noah's Arc" was not based in The Congos or in 4th century Mesopotamia. It's supposed to be about African-American gay men in 2006 who live in L.A. Therefore, I'd expect the characters to share the same sensibilities from this culture and this time period. So if that means we have some Eurocentric gay influence or preferences -- and we clearly do -- then those should be intelligently and logically expressed. So if modern-day Black gay men in the US are trending toward interest in more masculine-appearing men, it would make more sense to have characters that reflect that. And if you disagree with that trend or think it is unhealthy, then make smart storylines that challenge the viewer. But do NOT cover it up and pretend it's not there, and make it like all these queens are practically being stalked by their muscular, masculine paramours because of their irrestibility. A "Queen's fantasy", indeed!

afro_asian_american
October 6 2006, 7:47PM

I agree with a lot of "BLAthlete's" comments. When I first saw Noah's Arc I saw how unrealistic the couple parings were. In real life you would be more likely to see a Wade/Dre couple then a Wade/Noah couple or an Alex/Tre couple. Masculine sgl men's preference for other masculine sgl men has nothin to do with a fear or hatred of effeminate gay men. It has to do with what they are attracted to. and let's face it, most gay men (masculine or femenine) are attracted to the more masculine sgl man.

BLAthlete
October 6 2006, 8:10PM

Thanks Afro.

And of course the elephant in the room that no one wants to point out is that even though the vast majority of both fem and masc gay men prefer masc men, even masculine men prefer other masculine men over feminine men.

I am reminded of that new Beyonce song "Upgrade". It is in a man's nature to acquite the best he can. His first gay sexual experience may have been with someone who he might not have been all that attracted to, for he might not be all that familiar with the gay scene and the plentiful choices out there. But what happens when he sees more, and he realizes his "social worth" and that he can do and acquire "better"? UPGRADE! So the hot masculine guy (Wade or Tre) who was with a first-time thing (Noah / Alex), now gets a Dre or Tre.

No different from one these hot jocks leave their hometowns to go to college. They're dating their dumpy, frumpy hometown honey Gertrude but when they go off to the big city they see better options, and TAKE THEM and never look back! UPGRADE!

Larry
October 7 2006, 1:12AM

Can we just agree that Blathlete has no sense of camp,or is taking the show too much to heart, as it is supposed to represent his reality, when, hey, this show is just entertainment, and since Blathlete isn't a "queen" he doesn't enjoy the trashy camp element of the show. The show doesn't represent my reality either, My Man is Bahranian...and I've never gotten caught up in the DL/SGL and all the other clunky derivatives of Black Gay Identity...but I still watch the show. It doesn't represent me, but I enjoy it in it's trahsy disconnected state the same way that I enjoy those Joan Crawford Slasher Flicks (Straitjacket, Berserk anyone) maybe hoping at some point, thru the implausibilty that it will redeem itself...but enjoying the trashy ride on the way

and god...cna we get over the sexual role stuff...Darryl Stephens is a physically attractive man, and in reality there are really attractive effette men, don't get so hung up on gender roles..

A-Train
October 7 2006, 1:19AM

I work in tv, I am sure a few people here do so no that isnt really saying anything in particular, but I have to watch a lot of it.

I love the show for what it is, a situation comedy. It's not QAF, it's not soul food, its not a drama, its a 22 minute comedy. And with that in mind I think it works really well.

Media isnt a mirror representation of real life, otherwise we wouldnt really watch. Its slightly warped and very narrowed. And I think its plain silly to assume that there aren't segments of the population that vaguely reflect some of the characters on the show.

I dont know why we want patrick to be captain save a hoe for the black gay community, but I do like that he is doing his thing the way he wants and not trying to cater to a million different opinions. Keep it up! And somebody tell viacom to give logo some $$$.

Larry
October 7 2006, 2:09AM

and what's the hoopla about Trey(Gregory Keith)...he's a little tooo Matthew Rush Falcon porn star representation of a Black Man...looks wise...for my taste...hell I even thought it was Matthew Rush since his real name is Gregory Grove.

Bewitched like plot point!For season 3 Matthew Rush does play Trey like the Dick York/Dick Sargent switch for the 5th season of Bewitched...just because..and not a word is said of it...that's the way to make a classic sitcom!

BLAthlete
October 7 2006, 7:22AM

A-train and Larry, perhaps you didn't read my first post, where I said I DO find the show enjoyable, but in an implausible, over-the-top, soap opera way, like telenovelas or "Dynasty", or the newest one straight out of Bizarroworld, "Fashion House" on MyNetworkTV.

I do agree with the poster above (can't recall who) who said that this show cannot figure out if it wants to be a comedy, a drama, a melodrama, a dramedy, etc. I think if it's going to go for the unrealistic, over-the-top silly stuff, they should just cut all the pretense of "edutainment" and "ground breaking drama" and just try to be the dumbass camp comedy it is about six inches away from its life of becoming.

Re: Matt Rush. Forget it. That snow queen would never be caught dead being with a(nother) Black man. I doubt Patrik has the kind of money to pay him to make Mr. Rush pretend on screen to overcome his disgust for other Black men.

jared
October 7 2006, 12:14PM

i've never heard of this porn guy,and after reading of his style, i doubt if its even worth a search to see if they are similar in looks. but i'm now curious as to if he is as BLAthlete says has a disdain for black men since the porn industries idea of a black man is one similar to a mintrial show with all the actors looking like flavor flav. but, i sure do loves me some trey! sexy, gentle and buff, nice eye candy.

Larry
October 7 2006, 3:50PM

to Blathlete: The show doesn't have to go all out. Most Camp Classics (Valley of the Dolls, Mommie Dearest, and IMO The Color Purple) are actors, at least, trying to be sincere, which I think all of the actors, as they attest in interviews with Keith, attest they are trying to do, and to the audience...it's is so overwrought that is what makes it hilarious. that's what makes it campy. Every player, with the exception of Wilson Cruz, who rolls his eyes enough to let us know he's in on the joke, are playing their parts for all they have,and often they don't have much, internally or within the writing to do much with it but come across as overheated. The show is damn campy enough, if you ask me, it can continue in this Dynasty/ABC Afternoon Special mode...it's satisfying as it is.

Matthew Rush/Trey comparison:I was just saying that they are fair skinned lighted eyed and overmuscled, to me they look one and the same, Both are all muscles and look like someone stole their necks, call the police!

Joseph Reaves
October 7 2006, 3:59PM

Let me start off by saying this I LOVE NOAH'S ARC and as a Black Same Gender Loving Brother I am thankful that it exists and I have been down with the show before LOGO. To Darian and all others who are critical of those of us who at time take the show to task understand that we are not hating but that we criticize because we have such high expectations of this show since it speaks to and is supposed to represent us as Black SGL Men. Also I dont hate on effeminate men because as a Black SGL Brotha I do know that it's because of men like Sylvester being so flamboyant that I now have the right not to be but as a more masculine, hip-hop influenced (and when I say Hip Hop I mean Common not Lil' Kim) Brother I would like to see myself more represented on this show and you have the characters to do so (Wade, Trey, Dre). I dont have an issue with Wade and Dre walking in the ball because masculine brothers do exist within the house/ball community but I do have an issue with what category they had Wade and Dre in as I

Derrick from Philly
October 7 2006, 4:06PM

BLAthlete: thank you for this exchange of ideas, and the mature/courteous way you've commented. When this subject has come up in the past some of us have gotten nasty and resorted to personal insult. You haven't. Thanks.
Patrick Ian Polk is a hero to me. When I first saw "Punks" four years ago, I was so grateful to him for presenting a "fuller" range of black gay males. From the traditionally masculine character(Dunbar Rockmond), the sensitive (but not feminine) gay guy (Seth Gilliam), to the Drag Queen (Rodney...Alex on Noah's). I said, "finally I'm seeing the gay people I see in real life." He is a fine filmmaker, and he must have good reasons for presenting the characters of Noah and Alex the way he does. I wish him future success because I know he will always be fair to those of us in the black gay world who are now marginalized and not appreciated.

But lookahea', if you want to see a positive image of a masculine black gay man, buy the film "Strange Fruit". The lead actor is fine and so "BUTCH"

Larry
October 7 2006, 4:34PM

And in reference to Matthew Rush being a Snow Queen, well, he was raised around his white mother only, so I'm just guessing he doesn't Identify with African American Gay Men because he wasn't raised around the African American community. I was just making a joke reference to the times a main character on a sitcom has been randomly substituted on a Sitcom, the most obvious case being Bewitched in 1969, knowing they should have called it quits, the show just jumped the shark. It would add another layer of delirium to Noah's Arc to have something similar happen, Matthew Rush was the first overly muscular fair skinned gay "actor" that popped in my mind, whether he identifies as African American or not. It's just my thoughts...jeez...

Derrick from Philly
October 7 2006, 4:36PM

Also, on a serious note: on behalf of every femm, sissified, gurly queen and drag queen in the city of Philadelphia, I want to say, "WE GON' KICK T.O.'s AND DALLAS COWBOY ASSES TOMORROW!" Snap! Snap! Tripple Snaps!

Enjoy your weekend, dahlin's

BLAthlete
October 7 2006, 6:28PM

I know we're hijacking the topic by posting about snow queens instead of the main topic of NA, but that "the reason I don't identify with Blacks is because I was raised by my White parent / raised by wolves / whatever" is the WORST excuse I have heard for being a snow queen! If that's REALLY Matt's reason, perhaps he should meet Mariah Carey or Halle Berry, two biracials who were raised by their White moms and STILL identify as Black.

That excuse ranks up there with the tired "I date white men because they tend to have my interests like white water rafting and techno music". ARRGH! Whatever, Becky.

Larry
October 7 2006, 7:02PM

HAHAHA Blathlete, valid point, well with Halle Berry, to a point, how many years have we waited for Mariah to decide what the hell she was, having her own "Imitation of Life" in the public eye, after all I'm just guessing Matthew Rush feels or thinks this way, chances are it's more complex, and we shouldn't judge him if he does indeed relate to his white side more, that is his choice. Each and every person's descision for doing what and hy are unique, and I'm not here to make excuses for Matthew Rush or anyone, I think my original point was, to me Gregory Kieth and Matthew Rush looked a bit(or a lot falling into my own stereotypes) alike, and I don't see why so many men are attracted to such cartoonish physical masculinity. All they My Baby Trey stuff, in reality, if some my size (5'9 165) went to bed with someone his size and got a little "enthusiastic" I would come out with a few bruises. Maybe I'm thinking a bit too practically, but a visit to the emergency room after sex can't be fun.

chris-leo
October 7 2006, 8:15PM

also, larry and blathlete, not EVERY white parent (or black parent for that matter) is going to expose their black child to "black culture." halle AND mariah's moms made it a point to make sure their daughters were aware of their blackness. mariah talks about spending summers in the south with her dad's relatives.

HOWEVER, a friend of mine has TWO black parents who brought the family up in Orange County, CA. for chrissake, and they came up through one of the whitest school systems in the country, and when this friend of mine got grown, he was SHOCKED and amazed to move to New York and meet black people who embraced him and didn't view him as competition. he also doesn't see black men as particularly attractive, so he's quite the "snow queen," and he thinks black people in general have trouble relating to him. and he's probably right to a large extent.

let's try to help each other to understand. we don't all have the same choices, and we're not all working with the same equipment.

Larry
October 7 2006, 11:05PM

Can we just say Orange county F**ks you up no matter what your race? And Mariahs mother really wanted a break from pressing Mariah's nappy hair....no one really wants to be on either end of a hotcomb, especially from May Thru August.(the preceding was in jest).
And it's true, my step brother's mother doesn't see the big deal about teaching him about "Black Culture" I dunno what that will mean for him as a Gay adult Black Man, only time will tell if he'll be a total snow queen.In a way it would be a good thing, neither of us would be pressured into bringing home "Good Christian Boys that went to Morehouse."

greg
October 8 2006, 5:59AM

Dre survives the accident but is paralyze Wade is in total guilt for doing something he criticized Noah for, and that's CHEATING and makes a decision to stay with Dre, Dre is bitter and uses his situation to keep wade from Noah, Eddie's mom come to visit and decides to stay with the fellas, turning thier lives upside down.

jared
October 8 2006, 11:49AM

Larry, I lived in the OC for a few years after college, its not that bad of a place for blacks, use to be, especially when the had the NNAS (no N-word after sunset) rule in some cites when the John Birch society ran rampant. The only problem I had was no place could cut my hair in the part of town I lived in, near Laguna Beach. Its still right wing, but, not as scary as some places for black folk.

Larry
October 8 2006, 1:16PM

Haha Jared, well My Cousin Gary Grew up in Orange County, he's 31 a Cable Guy that Surfs and smokes pot and 1) doesn't have any Black friends 2) doesn't believe is categorizing himself as A man of color, even tho he's about 5 shades darker than me, to the long lasting amusement and ridicule of my family. I'm not one to judge but me growing up in more moderate, and more historically African American San Mateo County(The county directly south of San Francisco) where housing Covenants based on race were lifted, for various reasons, including blockbusting, has me less "F**d Up"....ever so slightly. Let's just say I've never been at Disneyland after Sundown in 24 years.

jared
October 8 2006, 2:49PM

Larry, I hear you, its not easy being black in the OC as you are always aware that you are part of a less than 3% group of people, but, you can have a good life, if you are aware and proud of your heritage. I was one of 3 black employees in a company that had over 500, just roll with and correct the ones who are clueless about being black in a all white place. I wasn't aware that San Mateo County had a black population that strong, I recall a large Asian community, but never got south of Half Moon Bay, and never east,and always thought of Alameda County as the hub of blackeness in the Bay Area where I went to grad school so, you do learn something new all the time.

Joseph Reaves
October 8 2006, 2:55PM

If I was Dre I woulda beat Noahs ass in the bathroom at black pride then left with Wade because if he had done that he might not have been so angry that he crashed the car and i hope dre survives and Wade wakes up and realizes what a good catch he his because Noah isn't and whether you guys want to admit or not Noah is becoming very unlikeable as he is becoming a Selfish, Inconsiderate, Irresponsible, Wreckless, and Dim Witted Whore now I know this is going to get some folks mad because everybody in here is bout to have Noahs baby from riding his dick so hard but you know its the truth.

Larry
October 8 2006, 3:52PM

Jared I would agree that Oakland, Berkeley and Richmond were and still are the Black Epicenter of the Bay Area, but In The Mid fifties the Sections of Menlo Park and Palo Alto East of The Bayshore Freeway wee among the first Suburban Housing tracts to go on sale new without Housing covenants in the Bay Area. There was a rapid growth of the African American Community there when The Fillmore District in SF was bulldozed...err "redeveloped" at One point the East Palo Alto Township had a ballot measure to rename it Nairobi, and the main shopping center in town until I was 5 and it was closed was the Nairobi center. My Great Grandmother actually had purchased a home on the west side of town, but was not allowed to inhabit it, so she bought a lot on the East Side of Town and had it moved. And then Painted it Pepto Bismol Pink, and had a Pink & White Chrysler New Yorker to match.....I think my like of the color pink is genetic

Riddler
October 8 2006, 4:27PM

After considering all that has come before the season ending and the last act of this week, it occured to me that Mr. Polk might be going somewhere. That is if he is setting up a story to explain why we as gay men make stupid, irresponsible and sometimes detrimental choices and call them love.
Noah has proclaimed that he is seeking 'the one' and the one is someone who is open, sharing and secure in who he is. He had all of those things with Malik, he found those qualities in Quincy too. But he let them both go because what he really wanted was drama and the untamed Wade. Wade is jealous (first of Ricky and later of Noah's success), needy (he wanted to move in w/ Noah and moved in w/ Dre), selfish, and a liar. Though Noah cheated on Wade by having a one night stand, he did not lie to Wade about his goings and comings as Wade did to Dre. Why would Wade cheat on Dre w/ someone who cheated on him? Because he too is prone to self-destruct. What is funny is that Wade did trust Dre. Wade + Noah = dysfunction.

BLAthlete
October 8 2006, 4:36PM

Riddler, very good observations. However, that's just too much like right. Methinks Patrik will just keep up the conflama and soap opera, over-the-top storylines and too tidy, ABC Afterschool Special resolutions.

chris-leo
October 8 2006, 5:03PM

no argument from me, Joseph Reaves. somebody please beat Noah's ass again.

ALSO some of this butch vs queen backlash could be the result of the show's DRAG LIB stance, pathologizing us, implying we have "effemaphobia" if we're not INTO or TURNED ON BY nelly cross-dressers or if we're not one ourselves. i understand that you wouldn't want a gay show that marginalizes femme guys or doesn't indeed celebrate them, but after Raphael rejects Ricky for Romeo; Chance drops T-Money; Guy turns nuts so that Alex wins Trey; Wade cheats on Dre for Noah, and EVERYONE turns their lives upside down to love Noah, who turns these gorgeous men away right, left and sideways, you start seeing that BLAthlete is right - in Patrik's universe, the queen always gets her man, and apparently anybody else' man.

after a while you get defensive. you're NOT phobic if you're not into vogue balls, and you're turned OFF by cross-dressing. and for the record, i'd much rather date Darryl Stephens than nelly Noah. shoot me!!

afro_asian_american
October 8 2006, 5:25PM

I agree with everything that chris-leo said. This show really is an unrealistic fantasy world created by patrik. I dislike how Patrik and his crew talk about how they're debunking stereotypes and showing the lives of "real" black gay men, when in reality thy're showing a fantasy world and portraying stereotypes.

nahtan serious
October 8 2006, 6:11PM

I love the show! I love the camp! Since when do DL decide what is a real representation of BLACK GAY LIFE, Last time I checked they were not even 'gay.'

MASC/FEMININE discussions for the most part are silly since it is all relative. Manly is in th eye of the beholder. Most importantly we each like what we like and and what we all like is dick and ass howvere it maybe configured!

afro_asian_american
October 8 2006, 7:20PM

ok once again we are not discussing the DL. Just because we are talking about masculine and effeminate traits does not mean that we are talking about the DL. Why is it that whenever this topic gets brought up somebody has to throw the DL in it too? the DL doesn't have anything to do with this. Im just saying that this show is an unrealistic portrayal of black gay men.

Blackgayguy
October 8 2006, 9:03PM

The whole DL thing is nothing but a sad joke, in real time and on this show, the only time it came off as a real manly guy was that cute guy who played T-money, bad kisser in that episode, but, he fit what i would think would be a "butch" guy, and he liked a guy ho was just that a guy, not fem not masculine. I like Noah's Arc, just fluff tv for the most part as is most things on the boob tube, but at least it shows black men in a positive light. The only thing I still don't get is how this guy, Noah can have all those hot guys after him, which is why its televison as I doubt if it would happen in the real world. The show is set in LA, land of the fake, vain and shallow, so, why wouldn't it happen with the black gay Sex and the City show? And, to Larry and Jared, its a shame how blacks got run out of San Francisco for "redevlopment" and it has been swpet under the rug and it seems to be happening all over the place, black folks have constantly be watching thier backs.

afro_asian_american
October 8 2006, 9:39PM

ok can we get off the DL subject. it has nothing to do with what we're discussing or the show for that matter. there hasn't been a character on the show that was DL, with the exception of Guy but I dont think you can really count that.

BLAthlete
October 8 2006, 10:16PM

Speaking of the whole "snow queen" epidemic, here's another thing about NA. Patrik's portrayal of black gay life in LA is wholly unrealistic. Noah lives in West Hollywood -- a gay city within LA that does not have very many Blacks living there, and the ones who DO are overwhelmingly into White gay culture and do not date Black men. Which brings to mind the ignoring of the whole trend in LA for many Black men to date anything BUT Black. and here are 4 gay Black men -- in LA -- and they all date Black men. Gee....What ARE the odds?

westgate
October 8 2006, 10:23PM

I think some want Noah's Arc to just be their own personal point of view, sorry that would be too hard to accomplish. Please someone give me a television show that reflects their lives on a daily!

Regarding the whole Dre and Wade should be together, because Dre is better for Wade. Are some of you watching the same program? Wade is with Dre because he is safe, not that he loves him. Dre is insecure and his behavior is sad to me. This all started with Dre inviting Noah to dinner, oh yes and surprise dinner guest Quincy a real stupid setup. Dre claims that Wade was so messed up when they met, Noah was the one that messed Wade up...what was Dre's point in bringing Noah back into their lives? Fear.

The police station should have been all the clue Dre needed that his relationship with Wade was over! I wonder why society is wasteland for broken relationships, well some of your thinking explains a lot.

I would bet that Wade more than likely has been talking in his sleep and Noah is the name on his lips.

BLAthlete
October 8 2006, 10:48PM

Westgate, and just exactly what is wrong with loving someone who is safe, stable, committed and mature (and VERY handsome)? And is self-confident and secure enough (not clandestine or cunning, as you suggest) to introduce his lover's ex to one of his best friends, in his own home? And to a great guy like Quincy, no less? Damn, if that's really the case, then we ALL would be lucky to have "enemies" like Dre. The LAST thing a sensible brutha like me wants for a serious relationship is some flaky, indecisive, wishy-washy, immature, slutty, selfish, overaged spoiled brat, the way Noah has been behaving the last 2 seasons. And throw in the "fembot" aspect of his look and persona, and I'd go running away from that dizzy queen faster than Reggie Bush to the end zone!

It's guys with attitudes like yours that give gay black men such a soiled reputation when it comes to making and keeping serious commitments.

Westgate
October 8 2006, 10:59PM

So Dre is stable and secure? Again what have you been watching. And the great guy like Quincy for all of his talk, appeared to care more about his cause dejour, than anything else. What was it that Ricky called Q, a media... ? Sorry Keith! Hey that Noah sure knows how to pulled the wove over many great guys eyes.

Watch the scene when Dre asks Noah to dinner in front of Wade. That not even a new trick...keep your enemies close.

Please explain to me what you would do if you ask your man if he is still in love with ex and he would not answer you? What if you caught your man hooking up with his ex...beg him to get in the car with you? Yes that stable and secure!

BLAthlete
October 8 2006, 11:18PM

Actually, if I were Dre, I would have already dumped Wade the night I was at the bar and I saw that his ex was that wrecked D-list queen with bad fashion sense, Noah. But again, this is Patrik's Bizarroworld fantasy, so someone like Dre (or Guy), who in the REAL WORLD, would be GREAT CATCHES and have their pick of the litter, HAS to be made to look emotionally unstable, insecure and play second fiddle to dizzy art queens that look like rejects from an 1985 Jermaine Stewart video.

Loi Wade
October 9 2006, 2:24AM

I keep hearing all of you guys talk about so called 'femmes'. The man who would have been my daughters godfather,if he had survived the aids epidemic, was a GORGEOUS 'bottom'. I get choked up even thinking about my baby. But Masculine men loved him. As a matter of fact, he was in a relationship with what you call 'trade' when he died. Masculine men DO INDEED date feminine men. I can't believe you as gay men are feeding into that stereotype! Poochie I miss you boo!

Loi Wade
October 9 2006, 2:57AM

Blathlete, as a sistah who was partially raised by gay black men, I am here to say that you are dellusional gur'! Are you sure you're black?

Westgate
October 9 2006, 3:19AM

Loi Wade I was thinking the samething, I have known more than a few very goodlooking masculine men who openly date fem guys. I think some here appear to me at little more focused on things that really are no importance what so ever.

The other non-issue is this is a television show!

nahtan serious
October 9 2006, 4:50AM

DL, Straight acting, incognegrohomo, whatever. The fact remains that the creator of Noahs Arc owes you nothing. Why should this show explore the lives of so called masculine bros or bros who hate feminine men? Men like Noah and far more representative of gay black men thna men like Trey so whats the problem? QAF , Six feet under, sex and the city etc all were unrealistic in one way or another but there were all entertaining!

The ball scene is a wonderful addition as was the drag show last season. As an out happy well adjusted gay man i am tired of the DL , str8 'acting' types trying to hijack 'gayness' while dissing 'feminine' bros. Please research the stonewall riots!

BLAthlete
October 9 2006, 8:58AM

Loi, of course you would say that. Like I said earlier, women tend to identify and embrace more effeminate gay men than masculine gay men because they are far less threatening to their fragile sensibilities. And for you to question my Blackness shows how truly little you know about Black gay men as a whole. I have been Black and gay all my life, and have ONLY dated Black men. OTOH, do you even KNOW any masculine Black gay men? I'm not talking about "trade" -- that's another subculture entirely that involves prison/street culture/exchange of sex for drugs/money/alcohol. And one and for all, STOP bringing up the Damn "DL". This ISN'T about that. Do you even know the difference?

And clearly, you cannot READ. I have said in countless posts above that there ARE masculine men who are attracted to femmes. It's just NOT as COMMON as this show leads one to believe. Like I said before, I'd guess-estimate it's about maybe only 15% of the black gay population of masculine men that are more interested in femmes.

BLAthlete
October 9 2006, 9:29AM

Nahtan, no one here said that they "hate" effete men. I certainly don't. Lack of sexual attraction does not equate to hate.

But when you say "men like Noah and far more representative of gay black men than men like Trey so whats the problem?", you're actually bolstering my main point. There ARE more available femms than masc gay men, and the masc men are considered more of a desired commodity in this life (and if they werent considered more desirable, then why are they always the fem's objects of desire on this show?). So, if a masculine man were attracted to femme guys in real life, he would be able to have his pick of the litter, for there are FAR more "fembots" to choose from than attractive masculine gay men. So if the show were to be realistic, it would be 4 femme queens chasing after one really masculine hot guy... instead of the other way around.

Oh, and I understand this is TV and the characters need to be attractive for viewers. But that certainly does not explain Alex.

Blackgayguy
October 9 2006, 11:18AM

I still don't see what the big deal is with masc/fem guys, who cares, both are in it for one thing when the door is closed and who has the deeper voice isn't where its going! And for the west Hollywood thing, thats true, this city has nothing for a black gay man, even those who don't think they are black. Its a town set up for the fantasy of white guys, I have no problem with that, but, blond, buff play muscles, blue eyed blonds with shrill voices just ain't my cup of tea. And the fetished ideas of Hispanics and Asians is a small part of that culture, but, black guys don't really work into the whole West Hollywood thing as anyone in So Calif knows, but, for P-I Polk, its his show and his hope that maybe they will or maybe he is doing what his job is, writing fiction.

Richard
October 9 2006, 4:57PM

As a black gay man who lives in West Hollywood, I have to correct you guys. Yes, West Hollywood is mostly white, but it's not an isolated island. If anyone knows anything about L.A., you know it's full of "areas" all right nextdoor to each other. One short 15-minute drive takes you thru Los Angeles-proper, Hollywood, West Hwd, then Beverly Hills. The greater L.A. area consists of all these places and they're within minutes of each other. So one can live in West Hwd and still date black men exclusively- as I do and as do many of my black friends. There are even club nights dedicated solely to black men, hispanic men, etc. right here in West Hollywood. Wednesday nights at Club Metro, to name one- where hundreds of black men go to party on the regular basis. So forget this idea that if you live in West Hollywood, the idea of dating other black men is false. That's just not true.
Lastly, I say this- this brilliant show is about 4 men. FOUR! It's not meant to rep the entire blk gay community. Gimme a break!

Blackgayguy
October 9 2006, 5:36PM

This is news to me, West Hollywood is now "inclusive" because of one night a week at a dive bar? Other than Arena which is in Hollywood and was opened after the owner got tired os seeing his friends of color being denied entrance and treated poorly by the establisments in WeHo, I hardly think one could say its a black friendly place. And, yes, I live in LA, Santa Monica to be precise. I don't have any issue with the show, but, to say one can be black and thrive as a out, black gay man in WeHo just isn't being truthful. Sure 'we' are there, but, not paired up that often with each other.

Riddler
October 9 2006, 6:50PM

I agree with you BLAthlete. It is a sad comment on the state of our thought process when Dre is deemed insecure and unstable for being positive enough to invite someone to his home and introduce them to someone that he thinks is great. I can see how he could have made the mistake of trusting Noah. He had been told by Wade that Noah was in the past. But he knew that they had been friends. He was friends w/ his ex, so why not? He had seen Noah standing on the side of the road after a break up w/ Malik, again, why not extend the olive branch?

The fact that Dre is still friends w/ an ex speaks volumes about his character. The fact that Noah is friends w/ not one of his says a lot about his lack of said quality.

Westgate
October 9 2006, 8:03PM

Riddler you and blathlete must be watching another program...because you are not watching Noah's Arc. There are implications of Dre not trusting Wade all over the place. Why would he need to know Noah? Clear head....and were is Dre's old lover/best friend now?

Again the invitation came only after Noah showed up at the place Wade works. Dre wanted to know what Noah was doing there... again no one has explained how Dre the stable and secure has to ask his boyfriend if he still loves his ex. Then within days decides he needs to ask him to get married. Yes that sounds like a secure and stable man/relationship to be... oh was Dre upset when he came home and saw Wade and Noah having a fight? Friends do have disagreements.

By the way how did this all have to do with just Noah...everytime Noah called Wade answered. Of course Noah did not ask Wade to beat up the bashers. Or to lie to Dre about being with Noah?

There is only secure characters on this show are Trey and Junito!

BLAthlete
October 9 2006, 8:34PM

Well, you might be onto one thing, West. I think Tre and Junito should become a couple. They can just leave all the madness of those silly queens behind, start an HIV clinic, get a civil union in CA, rent a room out to that cute B2K boy, adopt sub-Saharan African children a la Angelina and Brad, have safe sex and f**k like rabbits and grow old together. Tre can just pack his belongings and leave during one of those many ridiculous cell phone convos that Alex has with his coochie-coo kee-kee gurlfriends.

How's THIS?

RING! RING!

Alex: "Hey, gurl! What's the Degaga?"

Noah: "Alex, how do I know when he's the one?"

Alex: "Well, you just know by his KISS, gurl! See, MY MAN TRE loves my fat loud black ass and we've been together for 7 years and I'm an expert on keeping a real man happy, so I know...right, Tre?...Tre? Boo? Where ARE YOU? TRE??? TRE!!!!"

Sound of front door slamming, engine starting, rubber burning.

Uninvested Observor
October 10 2006, 3:14AM

Wow...132 posts? You guys are really invested in this show, huh? This is funny- I read an interview with the creator of the show, Polk, who was asked what he felt about any negative feedback about the show. He responded simply"I don't read it. Although I appreciate how rabid our fans are, I don't read viewer feedback. There are just too many opinions out there, and each one is so different than the next, that you'll run yourself crazy trying to satisfy all of them. So I follow my own creative mind, consult with the small number of people whose opinions and reputations I know and trust, and create work that makes me laugh, makes me cry, fakes me feel something. Polk also said, "I don't care if they love the show or hate it- as long as they keep watching." If this blog is any indication, you guys are definitely watching."

chris-leo
October 10 2006, 4:17AM

hmmm. well, "uninvested observor," that pretty much explains it all.

"i don't read viewer feedback...consult with the small number of people whose opinions and reputations i know and trust..."

nice. i believe that's also the way george w. bush runs his administration.

i appreciate the stubborn single-mindedness that it takes to create and air something like a Noah's Arc, in this political climate.

but when a leader shuts out criticism from without, has a small consulting group who share a similar ideology, views critics as opponents, and said leader is perceived to be powerful (like a creator/writer/producer/director for instance), you have the perfect setup for GROUP THINK or something known as THE ABILENE PARADOX - situations completely antithetical to creative and critical thought.

"i don't read viewer feedback," and "i don't care if they love the show or hate it, as long as they keep watching." the cynicism and arrogance revealed in those statements also shows in the product.

Westgate
October 10 2006, 9:07AM

Do some you think that writer producer Marc Cherry sitting around listening to what you think about "DHW's on ABC".

What I find interesting is that there has been a very diverse opinions about what many want this show should represent dare I say all over the map. If I had Patrik's ear I would suggest many changes but that in no ways would make my opinion more correct than anyone here or to Patrik's who created the show.

I don't know if Patrik is arrogance at this point ( yes imagine that from an artist) but he may be tired of people telling him how his work should look. Recall Wade from season one, regarding his script!

Uninvested Observer
October 10 2006, 9:40AM