Boykin Debates O'Reilly on Fox News

Jacques
September 21 2006, 12:04PM

Keith,

Great job! You were able to stay calm, cool, and collected while going up against *two* big talking heads. I think your analysis of the whole situation is right on the money.

Thank you,
-j

Paul
September 21 2006, 12:15PM

Keith you are awesome!
FYI, you are my main gay role model.

Carmen Van Kerckhove
September 21 2006, 12:50PM

Congratulations, Keith! All too often these networks only call on commentators of color when the issue at hand has something to do with race. It's great to see you not having to be the BLACK expert, just an expert.

Tyler
September 21 2006, 1:44PM

Tammy Bruce makes a good point that immediately labeling Jim McGreevey gay overshadows other "gaynesses." I think that a diversity of gayness is lacking and that the media does pay far too much attention to scandal.

However, implicit in Tammy's statement is this desire for gayness to be rooted in heteronormativity (that is, most gays are monogamous and "married", which is what she implied). This is exactly what's wrong with the gay movement. A focus on sameness will never eradicate inequality. It centers the oppressor. We are trying to be like "them". We are constantly de-emphasizing the uniqueness of what it is to be gay.

Further, I think that O'Reilly has a point when he says this kind of display, regardless of sexuality, does no good. I don't completely agree, but I think that what he is getting at is that media makes a spectacle of sexuality. It is never nuanced.

Sadly, he proves this point by continually talking over Keith and letting Tammy speak uninterrupted. Irony of ironies...

Derek
September 21 2006, 1:47PM

Now, I am the biggest Keith Boykin fan, but come on Keith. You seem to be far too timid about denouncing McGreevey's behavior. Most gay and non-gay people think that McGreevey's behavior was astoundingly reckless, irresponsible, cruel, and hedonistic. The man only came out after he was about to be exposed and was blackmailed. While there are lessons to learn about the effects of homophobia and self-denial, there also lessons to be learned about choosing to do things that harm and destroy others, such as promiscuous adultery. It would be wise if we distance ourselves from such heartless and hedonistic behavior. IN fact, we should denounce it and call all same-sex loving people to not only live openly and honestly, but in a manner that is healthy towards oneself and others. McGreevey seems to have used his closeted homosexuality as an excuse to be extremely selfish, unfaithful, and deceitful.

darryl
September 21 2006, 2:25PM

I have to say that I agree with Tammy Bruce.

Shabaka
September 21 2006, 3:00PM

Talk about self-righteousness!!...So the whole McGreevey frenzy is the "creepiest" thing she's ever seen? I guess she ain't seen much in her life then! I don't know where Tammy lives but most homosexuals I know aren't in "loving, committed relationships" as she helplessly points out. She's just another victim of the heteronormativity that seems to eat alive our society.
Well, Keith, once again kudos for speaking on behalf of all of us. Those in and out of the closet. America keeps forgetting that its attitude towards sexuality is what makes it harder for people to be honest and open about who they are.

Deacon
September 21 2006, 3:22PM

I'm finding it ironic that there are homosexuals that want to criticize McGreevey, not every out gay person was out at birth, true it was wrong of him to cheat on his wife but let's be real if every gay person could come out at the moment they knew they were gay all of us would be coming out as kids. Fact is he faced the sames fears that all of us faced, the fear of rejection from friends and family, what society would think, and out those fears Mcgreevey made mistakes. People act as if there's one correct example of copming out, if that were the case wouldn't we all be following it. I think people aren't upset with him because he's gay and cheated on his wife I think people are upset because he's profiting off his experience.

Derek
September 21 2006, 3:37PM

Shabaka, you scare me. Bruce is right in this case, although I usually disagree with her. McGreevey's actions were not a "mistake," it was deliberate unfaithfulness to his marriage vows. He exalted himself above his wife and kids and placed the state's security in jeopardy by hiring his lover in a homeland security post. The man used his "I am a Gay American" speech to cover the multitude of grotesque actions he engaged in. Contrary to Shabaka's statements, gay people need to embrace a sexual code of ethics, which many already have. It is tactically unwise to associate homosexuality with promiscuity, adultery, and public sex, as Mr. McGreevey has done.
It would be one thing if McGreevey were openly repentant and talking about how wrong all adultery is. But he seems to be repulsively showcasing his morally bankrupt behavior as if we should feel sorrow for him. I feel sorry for his family and anyone else he used. Please stop equating homosexuality with bad sexual behavior.

clay
September 21 2006, 3:41PM

people tragically fail to realize that McGreevey being in the closet and having sexual relations with men is a symptom of socially oppressive society. Many gay people do not have individual choices, in addition, even if we do have choices we do not choose what the choices are. Everything is not equaled and balanced ... I enjoyed McGreevey on Oprah and whether or not the "straights" get it his story will save many men and women. So what he came out when he was outted??? Most DL men do -- he OBVIOUSLY couldn't have been Governor if he was always OUT ... people want access to the same privileges and if they have sweep something under the rug they will. Sure, there is responsibility but if he didn't have to live his life in SECRECY he probably wouldn't have. Also, McGreevey doesn't represent me as being gay, nor does JL King, nor does ANYONE else ... this whole idea of making "gays" look bad is foolish and as bad as when people claimed Josephine Baker was making black women look bad for dancing naked.

muna
September 21 2006, 3:57PM

i havet to say, Keith has a sexy voice...i had never heard him speak before. keith made me proud of that debate...

tdubbs
September 21 2006, 5:11PM

Clay I agree with you totally,
hetro's do not understand what gay men women have to go thru in this society. Hetro's are quick to judge us when we mess up but when they mess up its all forgiving. Yes Mcgreevey made a choice a bad choice but that does not put him in a class by himself, everyone in there life makes a bad choice sometimes. It is about taking responsibility and that’s what Mcgreevey has done, now the straight folks want to continue to condemn him, they really need to just get over it, i'm glad he has come to terms with who he is and i’m glad to see he is happy.

bellah
September 21 2006, 6:08PM

why are you wasting your time on Fox/O'Reilly???????????/

Fake Janice Combs
September 21 2006, 7:40PM

Way to go honey. Seriously couldn't think of a better person to debate this.

Shaun A. Brown
September 21 2006, 7:43PM

Keith Boykin was terrific! You are a true leader and you represent the community well. While he was composed and professional the uncouth and staunch conservatives on the panel very rudely interrupted him while elaborately expressing his view on Fmr. Gov. McGreevey’s apology and autobiography as a whole. That is one of the reasons why O'Reily is not well liked among his peers and the viewers of the Fox News network. His point was very sour grapes and cliché. That shouldn't be a surprise, huh? It just goes to show how people are very selective about who they will, support, embrace, and forgive by association. I question, how would they feel if they were in a similar predicament. Wouldn’t they want sympathy and understanding instead of being subject to countless ridicule and disrespect?

jared
September 21 2006, 8:36PM

if i would have known you were on that creepy o'reillys show, i would have unblocked fox and watched, although that tammy bruce is worse than he is, and that speaks volumes. the whole sorrid tale of the ex govenor is just nasty, and hardly speaks anything for my and my life as a gay black man.

TwoDaddyFamily
September 21 2006, 9:29PM

Thinking that any of us gay folks fighting for adoption or marriage equality and the like are struggling to be like straight people or copy straight people or "heteronormativity" is a ridiculous assumption. Heteros do not own a monopoly on marriage or the family! We're legally married and have legally jointly adopted our two kids together. We're fighting for EQUAL rights. Women who struggle for equality in employment, including in male dominated professions, are not imitating men; they are fighting for full equality. African Americans fighting for an equal education, from grade school to college, are not imitating white people's privileges and dominance; they are fighting for full equality. Gay people fighting for family, adoption and marriage equality are not mimicking and copying straight people; they are fighting for full equality, period.

Javier Mendez
September 22 2006, 12:16AM

Thank you TwoDaddy. Promiscuity and infidelity are not related to being gay or bisexuality, monogamy and fidelity are not related to being heterosexual. Those of us who have sexual ethics that preclude us from engaging in behavior that harms the hearts and bodies of others as well as ourselves take great offense at those who associate the desire to build committed, monogamous relationships as desiring to mimic heterosexuals.
As for McGreevey, I am just wish Keith wouldn't have been so squeamish about saying that McGreevey's behavior was wrong and destructive. I believe in forgiveness, but I also believe in denouncing bad behavior in the interest of preventing it from being repeated again in other people's lives. There are millions of closeted men who have never cheated on their wives, had reckless sex with countless men/women, or otherwise had such disregard for their family's welfare. Being closeted doesn't mean you get a pass to be a amoral jerk.

pc
September 22 2006, 12:39AM

I was very proud of your performance, Keith. It's sad to acknowledge, but McGreevy's behavior does adequately represent segments of the gay community. He's not unique, and we all know it. There are countless businessmen, politicians, clergy, etc., that live that same lifestyle. Forced or by choice, they're out there! Maybe his book and his public outing will give someone else to courage to live authentically.

Chris
September 22 2006, 1:21AM

I never kept up with McGreevey when his scandal came out, but I thought Keith had good points with Gingrich. I personally thought that was far worse than McGreevey (not to mention more interesting, honestly).

The central point still remains the same, which people prior have talked about--how ethics and morals pertain to everyone and how each value them and act upon them. It was like Bruce and O'Reilly were so shocked at what Keith had to say; it was hilarious. OHMIGAWD HIS OPINIONS...ARE DIFFERENT.

Pffshaw.

ChicagoANgel
September 22 2006, 2:45AM

I'm glad I live in a country where I can have an opinion. After watching this video since i missed the show, i agree with where ms bruce and bill were coming from. It just added to the sterotypical "gay men are all about sex" thing. Im sure he wouldnt have come out unless that guy never threatned to expose him over money or whatever it was. like bill said he was enjoying his cake and eating it to.

On the other hand, he gone milk the money from this for all its worth.

Shabaka
September 22 2006, 3:31AM

Honestly, Derek, the last thing I intend to do is to become another McGreevey apologist, or any other cheater or deceiver out there. I came out a few years ago in my early twenties and I'm grateful that I live in country where that won't be held against me. Now my concern is for the uproar that seems to have emerged as a result of this man's coming out process. As for the rights of homosexuals to marry and adopt, the McGreevey case shouldn't hinder it in any way, shape or form. Heterosexual people surely don't have to worry about that right being retracted when Clinton, Rev Jackson, Giulianni and so forth are caught cheating on their wives. Why? Because there's nothing new about that. Men have been this way since day one. I just find it sad and unreasonable to use double standards when we feel like we need to put on a pedestal a certain lifestyle(monogamy) in order for our hard earned rights to remain unaltered.

raskl
September 22 2006, 4:05AM

Bill O'Reilly is the definition of creepy.

keithrj997
September 22 2006, 4:21AM

Not gonna side with you on this one Keith. Tammy Bruce put up the best argument. But Keith, going up against O'Reilly took a pair, so I'll give you that much.

Living-Honestly
September 22 2006, 4:36AM

Every life decision has a price. McGreevey took his dishonest chances, he won some and lost some. If an 18 year old can have the guts to declare themselves gay and proud in America, that 50 year old guy paid the price of lying to himself, lying to his first and second wife, lying to his kids, lying to the voting public, and then had the nerve to think he deserved any sort of sympathy or understanding from anyone. He's dangerous and would take you out without blinking given a chance. Please don't buy his psychopathic jounal.

John
September 22 2006, 9:23AM

If just one closeted gay person is encouraged to embrace his or her own sexual orientation by McGreevey's outing and book it may be worth all the raucus.

As a 60 yo white openly gay man who was married for over thirty years with three children I can identify with some of Jim's story and feel Keith is right on when he writes: "If we really want to do something about closeted gay men entering into phony relationships, we might start by doing something about the culture of homophobia and heterosexism that encourages so many people to lie in the first place."

I am disappointed that I didn't catch the show, Keith, as I make a habit of not watching that buffoon, O'Reilly, but like others here you are my hero ... thank you for being such an outstanding role model for men, gays and people of color!

Lukas
September 22 2006, 7:16PM

If you love people, you tell them the truth. Keith, you are so wrong about this. And why did you use the wussy word "mistake" instead of truthfully stating that McGreevey's actions were heinous and wrong? You came off as an apologist for promiscuous adultery that featured anonymous sex, which is almost universally denounced. Any movement needs ideology and realism. Part of realism, is knowing how to execute good public relations. Sympathizing with callous, reckless adultery is not the way to help our movement. Yeah, homophobia is a cause for closeted married men, but it is not a direct cause for adultery, or hiring your lover for an important job he is unqualified for. Further, Keith you came off as embodying the very thing that stiffles liberals with the American public. Instead of speaking plainly with moral clarity, you seemed to be covering for the bad behavior. That does our movement and community no favor. We should distance ourself from McGreevey's despicable actions, not make excuses for them.

Sherita Hall
September 23 2006, 2:35AM

Now all of you, would you've kept your composure if y'all were in Keith's shoes(Personally, I would've went the hell off!)? He had to go up against that louthmouthed, arrogant, phone sex addicted Bill O'Reilly and that Bush-loving(president as well!),self righteous, trying-so-desperately-to-be-femme Tammy Bruce. so, she thinks that the McGreevey thing is "creepy", apparently she didn't look at herself in the mirror before she went on air.

Some of you aren't being fair. Why not look at it from all sides? How many of you have lied about who you really are and did something scandalous? Hmmm? Whether you're straight, gay, bi, or whatever, we've ALL screwed up. So stop pointing fingers like none of you have ever done anything wrong and that you're "pure like the driven snow".

FOXNews is just as biased and hateful as the days are long. I commend you Keith for standing your ground. For those that disagree with me, that's cool. You're entitled. But would you have stood your ground like Keith did?

BobN
September 23 2006, 1:29PM

McGreevey made a lot of mistakes and, if you read his book, I think you'll find he's harder on himself than you imagine. But everyone else being SO condemnatory is just being hypocritical. HALF of American marriages end in divorce, OFTEN due to infidelity. Yes, McGreevey's story includes some particularly juicy tidbits beyond most people's options, like hiring heads of state departments, but come on.

Understanding is not condoning. Discussing is not promoting. Denouncing someone on national TV with Bill "sex-toy" O'Reilly would not be "moral clarity".

And "heinous"? "Heinous" is cutting up babies and feeding the parts to your pet.

LaFontaye
September 23 2006, 2:11PM

Let me go a step farther and just declare that "heinous" is and was Bill O'Reilly's mere birth.

I love you to pieces Keith but you should have been much more aggressive; as in vintage O'Reilly style, the playing field wasn't anywhere near level from jump.

blkarkitect
September 23 2006, 2:49PM

It pains me to say that I agree, at least in part with Bill O'Reilly. McGreevey is simply profiting from his public comeupance (which sadly, is an American pasttime). Heterosexism may have kept him in the closet, but the decision to cheat on his wife has nothing to do with societal pressures. We all have to live with the consequences of our choices and if you choose to enter into a sham marriage to further your political career, then you have to abide by the expectations of that choice.

I see where you are coming from Keith, but until we clearly and unequivocably denounce McGreevey's behavior, we cannot take the teeth out of O'Reilly's argument.

Ed Vince
September 23 2006, 3:40PM

Wow Keith, you're great in front of the screen.
Ever thinking about getting your own talk show?
America needs a gay t.v. talkshow host. YOu definitely have my vote.
Just visited your website here in The Netherlands.
Congrats on the National media exposure! When I visit
the states next month I have to return the DL book back
to my friend. It was honest reading. Thanks again for your intelligence and insight.

Tyrone
Amsterdam

DarkNLovely
September 23 2006, 8:25PM

Shame on Keith Boykin for giving any credence to McGreevey. I am personally insulted that Boykin would ty to make excuses for a man so reprehensible, regardless of what his sexual orientation is. To use the word "mistake" over and over again made the entire gay community look like a compulsive bunch of deviates. The next time you want to stand up for your own cause, Mr. Boykin - leave those of us dedicated to morals of fidelity and honesty out of your dialogue. You are just as bad as the prejudiced bigots who label all of us. I do not want to be connected in any way with a perverse publicity whore such as McGreevey, but it is clear that Keith Boykin thinks otherwise. He objectifies men of color, his interviews are stereotypical, and he points fingers at anyone else he can blame. His take on the DL is a joke - where do you think the term came from, Boykin?

Saed
September 24 2006, 10:18PM

Keith, you usually do us proud, but this time you let us down with your "mistake" language. McGreevey's actions were wrong, wrong, wrong and anyone with a moral compass should say so without obfuscating it with excuses from by a bygone era. Homophobia might be a partial explanation, but it doesn't justify what he did. McGreevey still seems to be obsessed with himself, parading on talk shows with his new lover. How about his wife, his kids? The bulk of my sympathy is reserved for them. Perhaps if he acted repentant, we might be more understanding of his purported plight.
We have 12 and 13 year old kids in the rural South living openly and honestly as bisexual and gay citizens, so why would a grown man like McGreevey warrant sympathy for his selfishness? THe key to the gay community's liberation is not selfish hedonism, but responsiblity born of strong moral values.

Fabulous Praiser
September 26 2006, 9:32PM

Will someone please explain to me why gay men (and women) who know they've been gay since they were kids, would ruin other lives by getting married and having children? That is the most SELFISH thing I've ever heard of. McGreevy mentioned he's been knowing he was gay since he was a little boy. He should have been true to himself and others by living his "gay life" without marrying someone and destroying them. I am glad he feels better by "coming out of the closet" but what about the wife that he hurt so badly? How did he leave her feeling?

McGreevy did not make a mistake. He ruined lives intentionally!

Mahari Mengistu
October 3 2006, 9:06PM

Great job, Keith. You conducted yourself with conviction and dignity. And you made the most important points. These Republicans are DEVIOUS. They care little whether the actions of McGreevey were appropriate. They are only concerned that they have been provided an opportunity to bash a gay person who is, I believe, a Democrat.
Of course, he acted inappropriately and recklessly but that, as you pointed out, is not the least unusual in this country.
And thanks for not stopping when Reilly and the deluded broad tried to shut you down. NEVER, NEVER, NEVER allow them to stop you from making your point. Reilly tried his "I'm the white man and I'm telling you to wait so I can make my point". The tactic is a holdover from Massa's time. Thank you for continuing to speak. I wish you had been even MORE forceful.

Jen
October 13 2006, 2:46AM

O'Reilly was not attacking Keith---he is very passionate about showing the lack of morality McGreevey demonstrated during his sexual tryst. I am saddened, Keith, that you call it a "mistake". The former governor did a bad thing, which is done by many people in our country---both gay and straight. I am a faithful watcher of O'Reilly and he does not agree with poor sexual ethics by anyone. I remember him discussing Gingrich's and Giuliani's situations. While I understand that being gay in our civilization is extremely difficult, that does not mean that gays should not be in committed relationships, because that is not how most people were taught to experience love and life. I am a lesbian at a top-notch university in the Midwest; I view many of my peers as doing unmoral acts like hooking up with a different person every weekend---they are either gay or straight. If you are religious/spiritual, the above is something that is against one's beliefs, so I conclude by stating that McGreevey sets a poor example.

Straightup Gay
October 15 2006, 9:17AM

As I understood it, Mr. Boykin was not defending Mr. McGreevey's personal behavior, only his right to explain himself and seek redemption. This is routinely the tack used by heterosexual public figures caught in sex scandals. Why should Mr. McGreevey be held to a different standard? It is disingenuous for Ms. Bruce to suggest that Mr. McGreevey's behavior is somehow responsible for reinforcing the mindset of bigoted heterosexuals who lack the introspection to examine their own duplicity. They would think the way they do with or without Mr. McGreevey's example. Mr. O'Reilly's hypocrisy is simply stunning. What tack did he choose when confronted when confronted with his own public sex scandal? Apparently, he paid top dollar to hush it all up and evade responsibility. Then again, it's not surprising that the married Mr. O'Reilly would have a strong distaste for lurid public confessions.

Eusebius McKaiser
November 27 2006, 10:37PM

i think boykin is wrong for once and tammy is absolutely right. even o'reilly is right. i expected the o'reilly line to be anti-gay. but it is not that crude, thankfully.

i still think keith's basic point is right: cheating closeted men in fake straight relationships indict the entire communinty, not just the cheating individuals.

but i think that fact counts as a mitigating fact to different degrees in different cases. when someone has relative power, exit options in his life and financial and emotional security, we can apportion a bit more responsibility and blame than we would to a poor kid living in rural jamaica shit scared he might be killed if he came out. mcgreevy is not such a kid. so the 'forgiveness' keith pushes, though containing a grain of truth in terms of asking society to not be self-righteous, unfortunately does not acknowledge the man's agency. he chose political mobility over integrity.