Return of the Down Low

Troy
March 27 2006, 11:47AM

aww and I was so looking forward to another long ass gospel bible thumpimg infomercial and how I can get the bible on box set DVDs, oh well...

Shannon
March 27 2006, 11:53AM

I, for one, am so tired of J.L. King that I don't know what to do! He really thinks this is all fun & games and he's loving every minute of the attention. Just look at his face in the commercials. He's enjoying this! He's enjoying preying on the unfounded fears of African-American women and making a killing off of it!

As for Ms. McMillan, nothing but love. Hell, the woman was wronged and she has every right to go off about it.

Mark
March 27 2006, 12:15PM

The letter to EUR says "straight men do not have sex with men, gay and bisexual men do." Okay, so in ancient Greece and Rome the majority of men were gay or bisexual, and in Bible story of Sodom all the men in the town are gay or bisexual (Gen. 19:4). Okay, whatever. My point is, the letter is correct only if the definition of gay or bisexual is someone who has sex with their own sex, and only if the definition of straight is someone who doesn't have sex with their own sex. But then the statement is a tautology, like saying "non-flying birds don't fly."

Javier Vazquez
March 27 2006, 12:30PM

You misread the Genesis story. Nowhere does it say all the men were gay or bisexual. For one thing, they were lusting over an angel, not a man. Another thing is that sexual debauchery was legend in Sodom and Gomorrah of all types, as well as other things such as inhospitality.
Of course, people define "straight" differently. By straight, I mean people who are almost exclusively attracted to people of the opposite sex and exhibit behavior consistent with that orientation. Ancient Greeks and Romans allowed for boy-man sexual relationships, but relationships between grown men of equal status were frown upon. It was more of an acceptance of man-boy sex than adult same-sex relationships. I guess prison proves that straight men can have gay sex, but perhaps prison proves that few men are truly straight more than anything.

James
March 27 2006, 12:36PM

I am so tired of the DL. What more can be said? What new spin can BET bring to the table? Who else can be scared?

When will BET do a special about how EVERYONE, regardless of their sexual orientation, can protect themselves from getting HIV?

Kenneth Winfrey
March 27 2006, 1:47PM

Y'all can read where I go ALL the way off in the message board(http://www.keithboykin.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=413) but I still cannot find enough ways to express my outrage. I am beginning to realize that the divisions between us have less to do with race and gender, and more to do with consciousness and intelligence. For example, anyone who thinks that a homosexual affair should translate as an "attempted murder" is no slave to logic... and yet, we not only share the planet with such a person, but we even turn them into American royalty.

Even though Oprah has demonstrated amazing intellectual capacity on so many other occasions (and for those who may be wondering, she is a distant relative of mine), I am sadly and profoundly disappointed in her for perpetuating this mythical, and inevitable, example of gay/SGL men and/or black men as unhealthy, opportunistic and irresponsible. I'll allow that she acted out of fear, but I truly expected more fully formed opinions from her and her staff. It just proves that intelligence nor wealth have anything to do with wisdom. Therefore, I feel that Oprah owes every black gay/SGLing man in the world a public apology for perpetuating the "DL" myth. If she can't have Keith Boykin or someone else on the show who can present a more real truth of this, she should at least make a point to state: There simply are no data to support the notion that black men are more likely to be married and bisexual than any other race. Black men may be more secretive about it, but we certainly hold no patent on cheating--same sex or otherwise.

I think cheating is wrong [period!]. I think unsafe sex is unhealthy [period!]. Once you've established that much, the sexual orientation of a partner doesn't really matter at all anyway--unless you just want and have to believe that HIV is a "gay problem." So, when we realize that adultery nor homosexuality, nor disease, are new (nor phenomenal), we can begin to put sexual orientation in its proper place. Then we can put the focus where it needs to be, on sexual health. Consider that even if a man claims to never have had sex with another man, he may have had sex with a woman who did have a bisexual male partner. Then what?

I guess we can't expect much from BET with their largely un-intellectually stimulating programming, but until we stop over-associating HIV with homosexuality, or treating same-sex intimacy as if it were criminal, all people--black or non-black, male and female--will remain at risk within the dimly lit confines of ignorance and media garbage.

Jon R
March 27 2006, 1:53PM

I posted this comment on the Dick Cheney story, but I will paste it here.

I am bothered by the news of a BET special for "down low" men. Keith, I know you might not be allowed to comment, since you have a BET show of your own, but this show about the DL sounds like BS. It just happens to star two of the most overexposed people on this issue (take a wild guess with who they both are), and looks like another attempt at spreading paranoia for the sake of ratings and sales. I want to have mass exposure on gay issues, but this is the wrong avenue for BET to go.

Bernie
March 27 2006, 2:07PM

Twenty five years after the AIDS epidemic, five years after the initial media frenzy, four years after the E.R. episode, three years after the New York Times Magazine story, two years after the Oprah episode, one year after Terry McMillan, the down low returns again this week like clockwork.

"BET. Giving you the latest news...on CP Time!"

Can you please provide us all with an address where we can bombard them with angry letters.

Kenneth Winfrey
March 27 2006, 3:33PM

content@bet.com or Tvviewerscomments@bet.com
2000 M Street, NW
Suite 602
Washington, D.C. 20036
202-533-1990

Ty A. Allison
March 27 2006, 4:28PM

I was wondering where you and Rod were concerning the knowledge of this show's airing. Glad you know about it. I saw it Saturday night on the website after looking for information on the Naked Truth series. It should be interesting. But it is way late.

Kellee
March 27 2006, 5:04PM

Yes, they are late with the special. But I was interviewed for this documentary at my job and they were asking us questions outside of the box. Even though, I am a black straight woman, I am completely against Mr. King's book, Terry McMillian's crazy ass behavior, and feel like the typical discussion about the DL only demonizes black gay men.

It also does not create a safe space for our community to have an honest open discussion about masculinity, homosexuality, relationships, and black women's autonomy over their own bodies. The DL image is nothing more than than an updated version of the brutal black buck in "Birth of a Nation" But instead of preying on white women, he preys on his own community. This is not a healthy or accurate portrayal.

All of that I said on camera,as did my editors. Now whether they cut it out, remains to be seen.

Zeus
March 27 2006, 6:53PM

Personally, I think it would be fair to view the program before making any accusations or bombarding the station with useless emails.

I did not support J.K. King's quest to profit off of the DL epidemic, but I am all for dialogue on the topic. Hopefully BET does the subject some justice by exploring deeper into the problem instead of encouraging sweeping generalizations.

Laura
March 27 2006, 7:07PM

"Nowhere does it say all the men were gay or bisexual. For one thing, they were lusting over an angel, not a man. Another thing is that sexual debauchery was legend in Sodom and Gomorrah of all types, as well as other things such as inhospitality."

not to mention, Lot tries to give away his virgin daughters to the neighborhood gang rapists.

charming.

Rayman Jackson
March 27 2006, 7:19PM

This memoir on the DL life was written a few years before "Living on the Downlow" came out. It's a free 241 page PDF entitled "Confessions of a DL Brother" you may have read it.

Free. Download, send to others, print, delete...

http://ia310108.us.archive.org/1/items/DLConfessions/confessionsofadownlowbrother.pdf

Mark
March 27 2006, 8:51PM

Rayman Jackson, thanks for posting that non-sensational and *non-profit* memoir as a non-gay man who has sex with men.

Laura,
My point was that in the story (note I continually refer to it as a "story"), the Sodomites could not have been gay or bisexual (at least not the way us gays usually use those terms today to refer to sexual minorities), because they were not in the minority! Anymore than the majority of ancient Greek and Roman men were "sexual minorities." You raise the objection, though, that the Sodomites were not lusting after men, but angels. Hmm, did they know that? I guess that would make them anglophiles. (Sorry! :)
Peace,
Mark

LaFontaye
March 27 2006, 11:02PM

"Nowhere does it say all the men were gay or bisexual. For one thing, they were lusting over an angel, not a man. Another thing is that sexual debauchery was legend in Sodom and Gomorrah of all types, as well as other things such as inhospitality."

Hmmm, maybe I should give this Bible thingy a try after all.

BrentX
March 28 2006, 12:25AM

The sick thing about this whole DL craziness is how Black gay men have turned "the DL" into something admirable, something hot, masculine and sexually attractive.

edwin greene
March 28 2006, 6:42AM

Return of the Down Low is an interesting title for this article. The down low never went away. And, unfortunately, it is not going away anytime soon.

That's because many straight black women have seized upon the DL as a cause (and maybe THE cause) of all their man problems. They can blame their sexual frustrations on those "others". It's like a conspiracy theory.

Did anyone read "Answer to AIDS Mystery Found Behind Bars" by Richard Morin in the 3-9-06 issue of the Washington Post? Therein may lie the key to the current rate of HIV/AIDS infection among black women - incarcerated black men engaging in unprotected homosexual sex behind bars, getting infected with the HIV virus and then passing it on to their female sex partners when they get out.

Of course, this is not exactly shocking news but the article is based on census data and a federal database that pinpoint the specific group of "straight" black males most responsible for the current HIV infection rate among black women.

Of course a solution to this problem would be to start demanding that local, state and federal jails/prisons give condoms to incarcerated men but that is not likely to happen - folks would rather blame DL men. Oh well.

Derrick from Philly
March 28 2006, 10:04AM

"incarcerated black men engaging in unprotected homosexual sex behind..."

Did he mention that much of this sex is not consensual? And the states refuse to allow condom use for those inmates who do have consensual sex?

Troy
March 28 2006, 10:56AM

still waiting on the Down Low Man Bag,
the Down Low credit card with the picture of two guys on it and a disgruntled female like ole Terri in the opposite corner, the Down Low loafer that lets you sneak in and out of places without making a sound and the Down Low baseball cap and sun visor and of course the T-shirt, jacket and i-pod case ewwww wwweee! Someone alert the media!

Tony
March 28 2006, 10:39PM

I am only half way through watching the BET special. A wonderful opportunity to educate and dispel myths has been missed in favor of sensationalism and Nielsen ratings. No one has really delved into why the black community does not create a safe space for men to be honest about who they are. The BET show has packaged the issue of same gender sexual intercourse in prison with the subject of the DL which I think is a whole nother issue.

Mel Smith
March 28 2006, 11:08PM

We need to be honest because people in the community help contribute to the "down low." One person with their biblical interpretations, another person with their anti gay ignorance, the selfish person who is cheated on his wife with another man, and we also have ignorant people who refuse to give condoms out in prison. I saw the down program on BET and I think the show portrayed all gay men as down low people. Now more ignoarant people will stereotype us and I have never slept with a women!

Mel Smith
March 28 2006, 11:11PM

I agree troy. It's sad because I feel like we lose either way. If we're honest, most people demonize us. If we're not honest, people still demonize us.

Jane
March 29 2006, 1:27AM

I watched the special tonight. It was garbage. Even my straight friends were disappointed in what was presented tonight. They made it seem like homosexual sex in prison was a new thing...a hidden secret. Like they're trying to remystify the DL. It just made me lose even more respect for BET.

Don't even get me started on J.L. King...he's been disappointing me since his book came out.

naturalblkluv
March 29 2006, 1:30AM

good lord, not another story about 'dl' men by men who aren't dl and bitter poz women who had unprotected sex and some where along the way between 4 baby daddies 6 kids and their jail bird boy friends they aquired the diease. i could see if there was going to be real dl men, but there wont be because 'dl men dont go on tv to discuss their sex life.

rh
March 29 2006, 8:37AM

I didn't think the special was all that bad. I think the point everyone is missing was pointed out in the special in the last 10 minute summation of the show. Be more responsible, get tested, and be honest with your partner. How is that wrong? Also, there was acknowledgement that intolerance is one of the factors to the DL.

When will gay men stop being so defensive about this and acknowledge that there is a crisis within our community and unfortunately, some men that lack integrity have contributed towards this. Gay men don't have a problem talking about the HIV issue when it comes to man to man contraction, but when a woman gets in the mix of it all hell breaks out and an onslaught of denials and cries of "sensationalism" is heard. Denial, denial, denial......

I can't wait until the first sister writes the book about all these supposedly "straight" women on the DL cheating on their husbands and boyfriends with other women.

Derrick from Philly
March 29 2006, 9:54AM

"When will gay men stop being so defensive..." and "denial, denial, deniaL..."

I think one of the original problems that openly gay men had with the "Down Low" guys was the negative opinion they had of us. One of the ways which DL guys still use to separate themselves from openly gay men is viscious gay bashing. To us, this behavior is the height of hypocrisy and cowardice! It may be that many black gay men now hate being associated with the damn DLs and want black folks know there's a distinct difference between the two groups(I'm talking about black gay men who believe that being identified as "gay" means there's more to life than having blatino parties with smelly hoodlums).

Let me be careful here because I don't have any of the familiarity with the DL culture that other posters on this site do. But, I do have a cousin who considers himself "DL" but NOT homophobic or in denial. He says, "he just doesn't want his business in the street." He has helped me to understand a little more about this issue.

You can be on the DL or "in the closet" all you want to, but don't use hatred toward me to keep your image or your secret--don't gay bash. If you do, then I don't give a damn what happens to you or the black community's attack on you. In fact, the evil, vindictive side of me actually hopes you do pay for...oh, well, see what I mean?

Will
March 29 2006, 2:40PM

Last night, I had a meeting to attend with my fraternity brothers, but seeing that this is a hot button issue, I opted to leave the meeting early just to watch the special on B.E.T. And I have my preconceived notions about what the special would be, but I was hoping B.E.T. would prove me wrong.

They didn't.

Just as I imagined, it did not offer anything new to discuss about the issue, it did not offer any solutions, and more importantly, it STILL attacked men who are on the D.L. You would HOPE that the network (especially considering it was a news special) would have said something about how the Black community is not very accepting, and how it is difficult to survive as a gay/bisexual Black man in a politically Caucasian America. I was sadly disappointed, but not surprised.

And when I heard about Terry McMillan being one of the people on the special, I FEARED for what was to come. Many people know by now about her situation, and yes, it is disappointing. One could only imagine, but some of her comments were detrimental to the cause of making gay/bisexual men to just come out or at least be honest when it comes to their sexual practices.

The topic is OBVIOUSLY too much to put into words in this textbox, but at this point, I am not sure if B.E.T. just helped the movement go forth, or if it set us back a bit.

I will close with this: I just wish some of you could here the conversations that I am hearing from the young Black woman from my smalltown campus. Black men, we've got some work to do.

jazzi
March 29 2006, 10:54PM

The show wasn't too bad. In fact, it wasn't bad at all. We've been kicked around so much that if someone says something critical about us we go off. A woman finds out that her husband is gay, we say she should have known. God forbid, he gives her HIV, we say it's her fault. Whew!

Inspite of Noah's Arc, Queer Eye For the Straight Guy, Broke Back Mountain, gay adoption & gay marriage, homophobia is still alive & well. All of these strides & advancements haven't easily translated into many of our personal lives. Many of us still struggle with who we are. It's still hard for many of us to come out to our families & friends. We fear their reactions, what they'll think or say.

That said, none of those things can excuse dishonesty. You don't get a pass because you're Black, gay & have been persecuted. Sorry! Is the "DL" an exclusively Black issue? Are you crazy? Do I believe that Black gay men are destroying our community? Of course not. Are Black gays soley responsible for the spread of HIV in our community? No but can we at least admit that men who marry or date women & still have sex with men are contributing to the problem? A little off the topic here but what those who don't disclose their HIV status? How about those who have sex with multiple partners & never ask if the person their having sex with is positive or not? Do any of these things figure into the equation? Am I homophobic or self abhorring for asking these questions?

The bottom line is that people need to be honest with themselves. If you're confused about your sexuality, that's not a crime. If you know you're gay & choose not to come out, fine. But it's wrong to pull someone else into your ball of confusion. It's wrong to pretend, to mislead, to deceive. Better that you stay single than to get involved with a woman for the sake of appearances, to cover up what you really do in secret or what you don't want to deal with. That's selfish & it's wrong.

edyyke
March 31 2006, 4:27AM

I watched That 'down low' special on BET. That was a ridiculous waste of air time. It should have been titled "I'm pissed I got played so I'm going to bitch about it". I can't believe I sat through it. It was sooooo one sided. Keith, you manage to be every where else like 'waldo', why in the hell weren't you there! Now the wierdos of the world have more fuel in their gay bashing tank.

DL_WILL_REMAIN
March 31 2006, 6:02PM

Some of the comments here make some sense and some make no sense at all.When will people realize DL has been going on for centuries and milleniums it has been going on and more than likely will always go on,If there is anyone trying to stop the DL lifestyle then they are fools who are wasting there time.They literally would have to go in and out every damn house,tee pee,mudhouse,wooden shack,restroom area,park or apartment complex in this world to stop married men or THUGS from having sex with each other.I am going to be honest with you all.And no one in the media seems to be talking about this,but it was mentioned on the radio.THE PRIMARY REASON MEN ARE DOWNLOW AND DL IS BECAUSE OF WHAT SOCIETY PORTRAYS THE HOMOSEXUAL LIFE,effeminate ass flaming queens,transexuals that look like beings from another planet,some that look like women to the point it makes you grin at how much insecurity has caused this individual to transform into a sex he was not born originally as.FLAGS AND flamboyant behavior.It is looked down upon by a majority of this world. In the black homosexual community shows like noahs arc only increase the stereotype that all black and latino gay men are effeminate queens,While the most effeminate queen on QUEER AS FOLK,named emmett,is DMX compared to the most masculine queen on NOAHS ARC.I mean come on everyone,it is no secret that effeminate men and transexuals and drag queens are still looked down upon by much of this world and even within the gay community itself.Though entitled to act and be who they choose to be in this country.You cannot blame society for choosing not to associate with such beings,They are as obligated to choose and associate with whom they feel,This goes for the DL men,THE fact is i sit back and i listen to the hyprocritical statements that come from effeminate men and openly gay men who are miserable yet do not realize it,THE LABELS THEY CRITICIZE DL MEN OF,,,INSECURE,MISERABLE,CONFUSED,NOT CONTENT seems to be all that is whats wrong with them.I mean what is with humanity in the gay world thinking that self acceptance of your sexuality means that you must tell the world or associate with the homosexual scene ,when it simply does not.Many homosexual men i know, pretend they care for women being exposed TO hiv,yet in reality they just want all men who sleep with other men to be out and open like them.It is like a secret wanting of all men who like men to be open like them so the numbers of gays who fights for rights and try so hard to prove they have pride to straights(which brings up the question of inferior complexes)can stand in one big army against heterosexuals.Its like a big dream that thugs and rappers can all associate with transexuals and flaming queens,and one day theres a flaming flamboyant rapper,AND THIS FANTASY IS JUST NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.flamboyancy for one is not natural,it is just effeminate traits taken to the extreme,highly elaborate,excessively done,when behaviors are taken to the extreme,it becomes quite annoying to many many others.Transexuals of all people cannot criticize anyone of being INSECURE when no matter what the case was with there transformation from male to wanna-be female,it still derived from insecurity and not being content with themselves.Let a masculine brother or a thug on the low turn down many effeminate queens the first thing they do is catch feelings and call that masculine brother a GURL,OR REFER TO HIM AS "SHE" disrespecting him and no soons as he bashes the hell out the queen,THEY SCREAM GAY BASHING.OR listen to the queens call another brother that is masculine a bottom or a queen,knowing the brother is masculine and the queen actinga as if bottoming in the sexual position with another male is what feminine men do only,when i myself have had sex with plenty of DL thugs that were my bottoms to me is simple misery,its like a defense mechanism they use because they felt the masculine guy insulted there effeminate mannerisms so they must consider him the same exact thing that they are,already with the mentality that if the brother insults them on there behavior it is something negative,so they bring him down to there level and criticize him of effeminate behavior,knowing that he is not effeminate at all.It is like saying IF I AM SHITTY YOU ARE SHITTY TOO=MISERY LOVES COMPANY!.But you cannot tell many homosexuals this,they go crazy in denial and pretend like there lifestyle is any better than any other guy who sleeps with men and chooses to keep it to himself,

PEOPLE realize,pride is within yourself,accepting what you are to yourself does not mean telling the world,coming out to everyone,or simply do not sleep with any woman at all,though the wife of a male has the right to know .because with marriages comes honesty and truth.Why should a male have to tell a bootycall female that just wants some good DICK that he has sex with men? please tell me what is the purpose of telling a female he has not chosen or would never choose to marry or be in a long faithful relationship that he likes the same sex as himself? Sounds to me like the only thing these women deserve to know is his HIV and std status.

Stop trying to stop DL,it is not going to happen,A grown man is going to do what a grown man wants to do.Instead of attacking these men for being DL,realize this and encourage these brothers to use CONDOMS,USE CONDOMS,be considerate just a little if you feel you will slip up and sleep with your best friend or go to a sex party and sleep with other dl thugs or married men or in a park,or sex with a transexual to deny your bisexuality with the illusion of sex with a female.DOWNLOW cannot be stopped and will not be stopped.ACCEPT IT and encourage the usage of rubbers and consideration.NOT CRITICIZE THESE GROWN ASS MEN THAT WILL ONLY STRIKE IN DEFENSE AND ANGER and continue to have unsafe sex with men even more to anger those who try to tell him as a GROWN MAN,what he should do in his life.ATTACKING IS NOT THE KEY!.

REALIZE,that these insecurities,miserable,unprideful and things homosexuals criticize DL men exist within its own community especially amongs the people who are quick to label these DL men these.

REALIZE,that no matter how much effeminate men and transexuals are obligated to act and carry themselves however they want along it is in accordance with the law,MOST OF SOCIETY IN NOT ONLY AMERICA ,THIS WORLD,including dl men do not want to associate with such behavior.AND no one can criticize there choice of not wanting too.

And to those who deny that most of this world does not want to be associated with you because you are effeminate or a transexual.Wake up and smell the starbucks coffee.We live in a country that is very religious struck and conservative along with this world.What makes you think a majority of people in this world wants to associate or has a positive thought about you,when the numbers of effeminate men and transexuals are still extremely low compared to the numbers of men born with more male traits than females.Alongs religion is this world on a tight grip,Homosexuality period,will be looked down upon,I guess the funniest part is these same individuals,MALE and FEMALE,that are so against it,ARE YOUR DL BROTHERS AND SISTERS OF ALL RACES.

Ladyjedi
March 31 2006, 10:58PM

I thought it was a good special. Keith I enjoy your site, though I have a lot of gay black male friends that think you are "completely different" than any other black gay male. What I see in the black gay male community makes me want to cry. I am a female. I see self deprecation. Personal attacks, pettiness, total insecurity. All wrapped up in Neiman Marcus clothes and great bodys. What is happening to us as a people? Keith please address the self esteem issues in the gay black male community.

Q
April 1 2006, 11:23AM

It seems that only a couple people really get this. Big ups to DL_Will_Remain and naturalblkluv for having something of value to add to the debate. If you have never been on tha low then you certainly can't explain shit about it. Moreover, these so called experts, victims and journalists need to be more objective before they tell these one-sided stories. The majority of men who identify as DL don't lead secret lives. They live private, discreet lives -- is that so hard to get. In all likelihood they are masculine, self-sufficient, same gender loving or bicurious, mellow, ambitious and not living their lives in terms of their sexuality. I really would like to understand why people continue to commentate on something they have no actual knowledge of be it from observation, experience or substatiated writings.

The Other Black Man
April 1 2006, 7:00PM

Does anyone know if BET will re-air "The Down-Low Exposed" or if there are sources to order copies of their shows.

Only E
April 3 2006, 10:45AM

This topic is getting old!!!! I am a Black woman who attends an HBCU and have written countless essays on this topic. In my Human Sexuality we reviewed the BET version of the DL and again the blame (for the HIV/AIDS epidemic) is falling on the group of Black men. If any educated person would look between the lines they would see and understand that it's not an issue of sexuality but, it's an issue of infidelity.

Derrick from Philly
April 3 2006, 10:46AM

DL_WILL_REMAIN:

Any "queen" or drag queen in "her" right mind understands that there is absolutely no benefit to cruising, lusting after, or socializing with DL brothers. We should keep the f__k away from y'all. And y'all do the same for us. It's the "mainstream" gay guys (who don't see themselves as effeminate) that have problems understanding y'all and your philosophy. Not us femms. We aint got no more use for y'll DL guys than y'all do for us.

But you know, you mentioned that the majority of the world looks down on queens and transsexuals. Guess what brother, the majority of the world aint crazy about any men who take dingdong up their booty. Most of the world sees giving up your booty to another man as an act of submission, a FEMININE ACT! Sorry.

Derrick from Philly
April 3 2006, 1:28PM

Earlier I wrote a rather nasty response to the post by DL_Will_Remain. Keith or whoever screens the posts decided not to post my comment. I'm grateful. What good would it do? DL_Will_Remain's comments were so viscious. If any feminine male or transsexual disrepected you, it's because you obviously disrepect us.

Just remember this, we sissies don't have to worry about straight guys finding out about us, they already know. But you can never let them know about you, because if they discover your secret you'll become the same thing to them that I am: a faggot.

DL_WILL_REMAIN
April 4 2006, 11:06AM

derrik from philly,,is nothing but the typical miserable pitiful homosexual miserable peice of shit,who can never accept the truth,Look you miserable individual,First off,,majority of DL guys are not even infatuated with you effeminate queens because of your outrageous horrible flamboyant behavior hardly anyone in the straight world wants to be associated with,Second off before jumping the gun like the typical flamboyant male who i mentioned in my post,Read and get some godayum knowledge fool,because regardless of what you say,,THE MERE FACT IS MOST GUYS THAT ARE DL DO NOT WANT TO ASSOCIATE WITH YOU EFFEMINATE MEN AND TRANSEXUALS PERIOD,if you cannot handle that,THEN OH WELL THERE IS NOTHING YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT,THEY ARE OBLIGATED TO SCREW WHAT THEY WANT AND WHEN THEY WANT.And there you go once again getting angry because the truth has been told to you and your unable to accept it,MOVE ON WITH YOUR LIFE,instead of responding in defense,How about reading anything i said and quoted it and trying to prove it wrong.GET A LIFE,before jumping down my throat.I have received several e-mails from individuals giving me the upmost respect for keeping it real about my post,and as usual theres the TYPICAL FLAMBOYANT NASTY ACTING FEM QUEEN WITH A BITCHY ASS ATTITUDE CATCHING FEELINGS BECAUSE SOMEONE HAS BROUGHT TO HIS ATTENTION HOW MOST OF SOCIETY DOES NOT WANT TO BE BOTHERED WITH A FLAMBOYANT MALE,then his MISERY just oozes on out into his message,saying that the whole world does not like homosexuality after i stated majority of the world is not hip to FLAMBOYANT MEN AND TRANSEXUALS,What was your point of saying this?? Are you feeling a little lonely and miserable on YOUR LITTLE BOAT.Heres the trick answer to your little statements.Most of the world is believed to be bisexual to a certain degree given certain circumstances,and the same exact people that are against homosexuality very much can and are your DL brothers and DL sisters.And still though homosexuality is looked down upon by majority of societies,FLAMBOYANT MEN AND TRANSEXUALS are looked down upon even more because of there behaviors,many whom carry themselves worse than woman,SO hop off your misery boat.And what are you smoking?,many drag queens and effeminate men love DL guys,many have the mentality that DL should only mess with effeminate men,much like alot of butch lesbians mess with effeminate lesbians,Yet it is not that way in the DL world,the average DL brother is interested in his kind or someone that is very discreet or thugged out as some like transexuals so they cannot feel bisexual or homosexual,they love the female illusion.So stop your generalizing,you sound very ignorant,Hop off your misery boat.What i said is all truthful and you cannot handle it,and that makes you a pitiful ,closeminded,sorry individual who needs some help with his mannerisms and his brain.

GET A LIFE!

DL_WILL_REMAIN
April 4 2006, 11:14AM

And what the hell is the point of telling anyone about us?? Did you even read my post?? No you did not,SHut the F-U-C-K UP with your miserable sorry flamboyant bitchy ass and sit the F-U-C-K down,You sound stupid and retarded,You self loathing miserable flamboyant queen.In society I am the straight guy,No one knows about me,And regardless of what society coalls any DL guy,The fact is YOU BEING A EFFEMINATE FLAMBOYANT MALE AE THE TRUE FAGGOT BY DEFINITION OH AND I WILL POST MUCH PROOF,SO KEEP YOUR FAGGOT ASS COMMENTS TO YOURSELF,YOU OBVIOUSLY DID NOT READ ANYTHING I WROTE,THATS WHY I CANNOT STAND YOU FLAMBOYANT CREATURES,YOUR JUST SO DAMN IGNORANT AND SORRY AND CANNOT COMPREHEND A DAMN THING THAT IS NOT IN FAVOR OF YOU ALL.SIT THE HELL DOWN AND SAY NOTHING ELSE

DL_WILL_REMAIN
April 4 2006, 11:21AM

excuse the vulgarity people,Its just miserable lonely individuals who are ignorant really get me heated with there sad comments

as for DERRICK_FROM_PHILLY

FAGGGOT:Faggot (epithet)
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Faggot or fag, in modern American usage, is a generally pejorative term for gay men, or for men who are judged to be (("unmanly", weak or effeminate}}}. Its usage has spread to varying extents elsewhere in the English-speaking world.

DL MEN AAND MASCULINE GAY MEN ARE NOT QUOTE ON QUOTE""FAGGOTS"" SO DOES THAT ANGER YOU?? what will your next response be?? full of anger?

Derrick from Philly
April 4 2006, 11:55AM

DL_WILL_REMAIN:

Thank you for your response to my response. I'm so flattered that my effeminate hand is using my effeminate pink handkerchief to wipe away my effeminate tears from my effeminate soft cheeks (facial cheeks, that is).
But tell me somethin', if you're living your DL lifestyle so successfully, what were you doing hangin' around "queens", "drag queens", and transsexuals anyway? If you weren't near us we couldn't "cruise" you, or crave after you, or grit on your macho man booty.

May the Good Lord keep you and your secret sex life.

DL_WILL_REMAIN
April 4 2006, 3:00PM

Who the hell said i hang with effeminate queens and transexuals?? You just made an assumption,which is a low form of knwowledge and you expressing your stupidity and weak mannerisms once again.How pathethic,and you wonder why society has so much dislike for you and your types,most of you seem to have that same ignorant mentality.But its okay you cannot help the way you are.By the way i have studied homosexuality in the black community for the longest and am very informed about most things and the mentality of people in it.Thanks for making yourself look like an ass again.Maybe if you take off that tired wig you might let some air flow through them brain cells and give you some common sense and knowledge.

DL_WILL_REMAIN
April 4 2006, 3:03PM

Maybe if you take off that tired wig you might let some air flow through them brain cells and give you some common sense and knowledge

DONT GET MAD AT THIS^^,JUST TRYING TO BE FUNNY,,

DL_WILL_REMAIN
April 4 2006, 3:07PM

I'd like you to please re-read my whole entire post and please tell me WHY THE HELL DOES YOUR MISERABLE ASS WANT PEOPLE TO COME OUT AND TELL PEOPLE WHAT THEY ARE?? WHY DO YOU CARE? WHAT PART OF THE PRIDE IS WITHIN YOURSELF AND ALONGS YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE,YOU REALLY OWE NO EXPLANATION TO ANYONE,DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND?? ARE YOU MENTALLY RETARDED?IS THERE A PROBLEM WITH YOU? ARE YOU LONELY?? YOU NEED TO SEEK HELP WITH YOUR STATEMENTS AND YOUR MANNERISMS,LITTLE BOY! PLEASE STEP TO ME,WHEN YOU MATURE AND WILL NOT IGNORE MY QUESTIONS.

Derrick from Philly
April 4 2006, 3:43PM

"...seek help with your statements and your mannerisms, Little Boy"

Don't be callin' me no "little boy"--not while I got my tired wig on.

Actually, I have re-read your (and my own) comments on this issue. In my original comment I spoke about accepting and repecting the DL culture and its philosophy EXCEPT if "gay bashing" is part of your culture and philosophy. And wouldn't you know it,in your first posting you went into a tirade about "effeminate ass flaming queens" and "no soons as he bashes the hell out the queen..."

DL_STILL_REMAIN, I wanted to point out to you that no matter how much you may look down on me, the world(especially the black commnuity) aint to approving of your, shall we say, private behavior either. So, maybe you should refrain from brashing others.

But, brother, you sure can get emotional and PREACH. You ought to be up there in the pulpit with T.D. Jakes and Willie Long and them.

DL_WILL_REMAIN
April 4 2006, 8:06PM

You miserable little fool,,do you not get it??? THE WORLD IS DL? the same homo and hating same sex loving people are the same ones,you better research it,and stop dragging us into your misery bag of wanting us to be hated like your kind,I REFER YOU TO THE BOOK SISSYPHOBIA,it discusses the hate and dislike of you effeminate beings and transexuals from the straight world and within your own openly gay community from masculine males.The book talks about how the world would actually be more comfortable with a masculine male homosexual than one who carries himself worse than a woman or just like one.Now does that anger you more?? AND GAY BASHING?? if you had read anything i had said,i stated that effeminate queens run there mouths with such ignorance toward men who do not want them and when they are bashed for it,YOU ALL YELL GAY BASHING..i dont bash anything but those who cross me the wrong way,much like you..SIT DOWN.WITH YOUR EVERY POST EFFEMINATE ONE,I WILL RESPOND AND EXPOSE YOUR IGNORANCE MUCH.QUIT MAKING YOURSELF LOOK LIKE A FOOL MORE THAN YOU ALREADY ARE,,BY EXAGGERATING YOUR NATURAL EFFEMINATE CHARACTERISTICS INTO FLAMBOYANT ONES ,AS IF THEY ARE NATURAL

Derrick from Philly
April 5 2006, 10:33AM

As valuable as Keith Boykin's website is, it shouldn't used for insane comments and arguments. So, I'm rather ashamed of myself at this point. Why didn't one of y'all warn me about this lunatic I've been arguing with for three days now. I didn't know he posts on other black gay websites using different names, insulting gay people all the time.

I, indeed do feel like "a miserable little fool" now. He's a NUT! He goes on like one of those soap box preachers you see on city street corners--ranting and raving and cursing.
The white folks need to put his crazy ass away.

mac-d
April 5 2006, 12:27PM

Derrick from philly,i read DL_WILL_REMAINS comments and they actually make alot of sense,i truly doubt you read and gave an actual thought to what he had to say,you just fell right in the type of effeminate males that jump the gun and get offended.It is like the more you respond,the more you make it quite obvious that he is indeed right about his theory about many feminine black males in the homosexual community