Flunder Closes Black Church Summit

fierce bitch
January 23 2006, 2:03PM

The statement "who does that queen think she is?" or "she's a real late girl" will continue to be served in regards to self-appointed so-called Black gay leaders who say they speak for us all. Au contraire. Many are considered elitists and opportunists in the community. Why should so-called Black gay and lesbian leaders be above criticism and accountability? That in itself says alot about their arrogance.

Obviously, Flunder is not above serving negativity herself. Tsk,tsk....just like a christian.

a thomas c
January 23 2006, 2:08PM

it's quite obvious that you weren't there because if you knew the context of which she spoke, your comments wouldn't be up here fierce...

flunder was simply amazing...

SYLAZ
January 23 2006, 2:19PM

Before Bishop Flunder could finish singing, members of the audience were on their feet. With the organist and drummer playing background, people in the pews were praising the Lord, cheering and chanting as if they were in an old-fashioned Pentecostal church.

"CHEERING and CHANTING"? "CHEERING and CHANTING"? ROFL

Please don't take this wrong way...but I find your choice of words amusing. They don't chant and cheer in any pentecostal church I know. they shout, jump, dance, praise, run, cry....but CHEER and CHANT? lol

Kenneth Winfrey
January 23 2006, 2:43PM

Cheering, chanting, dancing, or speaking in tongues, I have to agree with "fb."

Leadership is not a status that exempts us from accountability. On the contrary, it most certainly brings with it tremendous accountability. That is why leadership must be actively forthright. There is actually a very clear verse in the Bible that affirms this "servitude" of leadership that I cannot recall. It goes something like "Those who are servants among you shall be your leaders." or something like that. Christianity (by definition a call to be Christ-like) has long forgotten and ignored the leadership modeled by Jesus Christ.

Furthermore, the masses have been so utterly bruised by corruption and poor leadership of late. Self-serving manipulators with mouths full of catch phrases, rhetoric, and clichés have run roughshod over the ideals of self-governing principles. I love my leaders (some might even say I, myself, am a leader...and aren't we all?) but, it's gonna take some effort to kiss and make up. Leaders must now work hard to earn trust by behaving above board, putting aside their own egos, and by ceasing to attempt absolving themselves of the duty to keep the promise--certainly at least until confidence is more fully restored. Inform by teaching, don't just criticize ignorance.

Now is really not the time to turn a finger on a society basically wandering through the desert of this world. You can ask me to have faith in God, you can even plead for my patience on your own behalf, but I'm too cynical these days to hear another word about how well we "follow." If I don't let George Bush--the so-called "leader of the free world" tell me who or what to believe in, then I can't let anyone else do it either. I don't give trust to anything or anyone that explicitly asks for it wholesale, and then fails to produce results.

Moreover, having been on the receiving end of the question, "Who does that queen think she is?" I have proclaimed that "I am a child of this omnipotent universe with a mission to make the world a better place." If you can't resist the tug to engage a challenge like that any other way, then you're no real leader at all!

Ms. Roland
January 23 2006, 4:46PM

I am glad to hear that the Spirit of the Lord came in and visited at the conference! God always shows up when people want Him around! Wouldn't you? This woman of God is obviously making an impact with her God-given talents. This is certainly in order whether you have a compramising lifesyle or not. Life is set-up so that whatever we sow--we reap. Good or bad. Common or indifferent. So everthing else has a way of surfacing anyhow so glad to hear yau'll had some church! To beat the flesh...you need as much Holy-Ghost POWER as you can get!!!!!! The Devil aint playin' whit nobody!!!! He wants to bring down anybody he can!!!!! He's a master con artist!!!!! One day he will be completely exposed of Rev.20:1-3!!!! Hah, hah devil (Small "d" that is)! YOU GOIN TO HELL YOUR OWN SELF! NO MORE CONFUSION OF WHAT SOMEONE SHOULD OR SHOULDN'T BE! Can I please just KEEP IT REAL???!!! www.natashaspeaks.net Thanks!

fierce bitch
January 23 2006, 6:05PM

Ms. Roland - how's this for keepin' it real: "you sound like an uneducated fool with that fear and brimstone christian mess." Girl, please.

James
January 23 2006, 7:01PM

I have to agree with some of the other posts. I have been to numerous Pentecoastal churches in my day, and I have never heard neither cheering nor chanting. I'm not sure what one could cheer about in a service, and the only "chanting" I've ever heard was someone speaking in tongues! In case Keith and others are possibly unaware, the song that Flunder sang was written by Kurt Carr and is on Byron Cage's CD. It's an extremly popular song for regular church attendees. Not a criticism, but rather a question: Keith, since you are obviously passionate about the current status of the black church, do you attend church??? I've never heard you actually mention your attendance on your website, only references to comments by preachers of whom you were informed. If not, it seems slightly odd for someone to host a conference concerning an organization of which he isn't a frequent member.

ashon
January 23 2006, 7:11PM

james

1 - keith boykin is not tantamount to the NBJC...

2 - though keith is on the board of the NBJC, he is not in charge of the religious group that sponsored this event

3 - even if someone does not attend "church" regularly (if at all), because of the religio-cultural ties of church to state in this nation, keith is well within his rights to try and explain what *he* sees as an issue...though off-base at times (e.g., the outing campaign in which he and jasmyne tried to undertake), the church - and the black church particularly - is a stronghold in the community that must be critiqued borth from the inside and outside...

Ms. Roland
January 23 2006, 7:37PM

Ms. Fierch B.: I am most cetain that you understand in this new year of 2006 that you sound and therefore most probably are a typical black woman with an attitude???!!! Hummm, just wanted to remind you. I am sure you have anger issues. I understand! Our women are tremedously damaged girlfriend. Our men are soooo on the DOWN LOW is aint even funnie! But I won't go there right now. Back to you though... I'll pray for you. Stop being so angry and speak POSITIVE AFFIRMATIONS. Log onto my site and read bout that at botton left.

Good question proposed to Mr. Boykin regarding church attendance James. Bottom line--balck people in America is certainly overindated with the "bewitching of religion. This is not something I can explain briefly. Just understand as time moves along, we will begin to become again who our forefathers used to be--ISRAEL!! Don't mean to confuse. It's important though to start a little flame bout who black people in America really are! We are the real authentic people of the bible from Israel--NOT AFRICA! THAT'S A CONSPIRACY. I DON'T HAVE TIME. JUST LOG ONTO MY SITE AND YOU'LL GET BETTER UNDERSTANDING. AS A RESULT THOUGH, WE ARE INTOXICATED WITH LOTS OF STUFF THAT HAS US DRUNK!!! I'LL LEAVE IT AT THAT. But c'on "let's go HIGHER---higher in who we really are.

faye
January 23 2006, 9:02PM

seem to me you sister are mad at bishop flunder because she (brung the word)not preached it .love is love no matter where you find. is l-o -v-e in the bible.peace love joy 2006 my people faye

Kenneth Winfrey
January 23 2006, 11:21PM

Fratman1906 found the verses I referenced earlier. Here they are in excerpt.

Thanks Fratman!!!

Matthew 20:26

But among you it should be quite different. Whoever wants to be a leader among you must be your servant...

Mark 10:43 is even more appropriate as the 12 disciples squabble over their own glory.

But among you it should be quite different. Whoever wants to be a leader among you must be your servant...

Laura
January 23 2006, 11:29PM

"One day he will be completely exposed of Rev.20:1-3!!!! Hah, hah devil (Small "d" that is)! YOU GOIN TO HELL YOUR OWN SELF! NO MORE CONFUSION OF WHAT SOMEONE SHOULD OR SHOULDN'T BE! Can I please just KEEP IT REAL???!!!"

lolol last i checked, faith has nothing to do with "reality".

so whether or not you keep it real is entirely up to you.

must say, your sermonettes and bible-banging don't help much in that regard.

Laura
January 23 2006, 11:32PM

she's so hot! lol

as re: the pentecostal bit, from what i understand, she is out of that great institution called Love Center, the heart of the COGICs.

so whatever language used to describe the service, it fits that it seems "pentecostal".

still haven't heard her preach, plan to some time soon.

Laura
January 23 2006, 11:38PM

"Our men are soooo on the DOWN LOW is aint even funnie! But I won't go there right now."

lol, thank you. please don't.

a lot of you supposed heterosexual women are on the down low too, most typically the ones who believe they have a special gift for "ministering to the homosexual". how many times have we all heard the garbage you've been spewing here in the past couple days -- hopefully, you don't honestly think this rhetoric is new to Black gays.

and i certainly hope you aren't one of those tool heterosexual women who scapegoat so-called "DL" men for making your life miserable, or whatever.

sounds like you're the one with the massive anger issues at men. most heterosexual women do.

Laura
January 24 2006, 12:09AM

"in the bible god says homosexuality is an abomination. "

god doesn't say that, bigoted men say that.

i trust you are preparing that freewill offering of an ox for today's burnt offering, and it BETTER not have busted balls (Leviticus 22:23-24), because that's in the bible, too.

why don't you people actually sit down and read the crap BEFORE you come here and spew it around as Ultimate Truth. nobody's buying it anymore except the gullible, and the ignorant.

a gentleman
January 24 2006, 12:24PM

Both "Laura" and "Ms. Roland" are too long-winded and draw undue attention to themselves with petty "tit-for-tats" as well as their unrelenting immature clamor for the prized "last word." Plainly put, it's unproductive, selfish, rude and inappropriate to dominate discussions this way. Visitors have actually recently claimed to avoid articles "when those queens just start bickering at each other." They only return to read new posts until one these exchanges begins.

It's like the time I participated in a LGBT discussion group. Each meeting would begin with a topic. Then, two members of the group who had some old battles would begin throwing verbal insults at each other. Right and wrong became irrelevant as the discussion degraded. People left, and the group eventually dissolved.

First, Ms. Roland's attempt at subtlety and her sarcasm are inflammatory. I might add that I feel condescended upon as she insists that our souls need to be saved (while she surreptitiously tries to siphon traffic to her own site...which I refuse to visit simply because.). I believe in free speech. However, if a person "poops" on the street and claims he's merely expressing himself...well, you know. Second, Laura may need to realize that ideas can be separated by new paragraphs, not new posts. She/He may also learn that it is apparent that she seems to enjoy provocation much more than artful deliberation. Both of them sound like children in a schoolyard, and I would hope (and pray) that they learn to communicate more diplomatically, refrain from insults, stay on topic, and avoid abusing the comment feature.

As we shed repressive traditions in this society, we seem to be throwing the proverbial "baby out with the bath water" (i.e., etiquette, being "ladies" and/or "gentlemen"). Just because we are more liberated doesn't necessarily mean that we are more liberated to hurt one another. Be cool. Stop taking it all so personal.

PS: There are more than a few "Ms. Rolands" and "Lauras" out there.

Ms. Roland
January 24 2006, 2:09PM

MR. Gentleman: A gentleman I will call you today. Those are good points you made. I maturely except your critisms:-) You are right bout what I'll call catish comments. If you notice...I let this obviously angry Ms. Laura have the last word!!! I'm trying to empower people not cripple. So kudo's to YOU! I hear what you're sayin' bout the traffic. Good observation my brotha'hahahahahaha! Yeah!

Mr. Boykin has I think a fabulous platform or I certainly wouln't waist my time! I'm very understanding. I live in a city full of whatever. And I like people so I don't want to keep people away from a site I had nothing to do with growing!!!! You know. As far as my own...well, hahahaha! Nother good observation! In time though you'll get to know what I'm saying cause it's a prophetic/futuristic platform. I actually know where we as a people are going!!!! And yes I think that's pretty darn powerful!

I hope you will appreciate the fact that I am also saying TIME OUT FOR ALLLL THE RELIGIOUSITY believe it or not!!!!! Yeah! That's part of why we are where we are now as a people!! (That all though is another story). Thanks again and sorry for any offences. God Bless!

Mel Smith
January 24 2006, 2:56PM

Amen Laura! Gentleman, I do not have respect for people who attack us for our god given sexuality. Most of the straights that come on this site do not want to listen to our arguments. They do not care about you. Many of them do not want to be in the same room with you. Therefore I respect people like Laura.

escritor
January 24 2006, 5:21PM

A Gentleman, I agree with you. The meanness and bickering gets tired fast. I understand the impulse to blast back at the homophobes, but the negativity circulates like air and soon we're ripping each other apart too.

I wonder what would happen if we let the homophobes come, spew their ignorance and we just let it lay there? No one respond to it. We might be surprised how quickly those folks pack up and leave when we refuse to play.

Laura
January 24 2006, 5:38PM

"No one respond to it. We might be surprised how quickly those folks pack up and leave when we refuse to play. "

ain't happenin, not from this corner.

sorry.

Gentleman - somebody trashes me, and advocates for 2nd class status, i trash them right back. if you don't like my posts, then i would recommend just skipping over them...i don't need any pointers from you on how to post in these comments, thanks.

Laura
January 24 2006, 5:41PM

"I let this obviously angry Ms. Laura have the last word!!! I'm trying to empower people not cripple."

you are trying to impose your own hangups about "lifestyles" onto people you don't even know. most selective literalist bible-bangers do.

kid yourself, but you are not kidding me.

Ms. Roland
January 24 2006, 6:06PM

Ms. Laura: I'm a master debator but I'll come at you with love girlfriend cause I meant what I said. Empower not cripple. WHAT ARE YOU SOOO ANGRY BOUT GIRLFRIEND???? CHILL!!!!!! Is is that serious for you? If so I won't downplay it cause you know we do that too much--what's important to you is not as important to others and then booom!!! We get wounded. Please keep in mind what the brotha' said and the person "Escritor"...too much negativity is NOT the flavah we should have they more less sayin'! So chill on the anger stuff cause trust me...when it get's real bad in life....sooner or later we alllll need that good ole' fashion prayer 4yoe' soul girlfriend! And the anger stuff then has to take a backseat. If you live past 15, 20, 30, ect you soon find this out! So chill. Let's agree to disagree, you know.

It's a NEW YEAR! I done whit stagnation and more importantly NE-GA-TI-VI-TIEEEE! BE DONE WITH ALLLL THAT! LIFE IS TOO DOG GAWN SHORT. U KNOW!!!!!!!! UM HUMMMM.:-)

Ms. Roland
January 24 2006, 6:11PM

Ms. Laura: I 4got to say sorry for the offenses. Hey...I'm a peacemaker. Like you said I don't know you so "peace in the middle east my sistah'" This is why "gentiles" or white people (to go head and keep it real as they are called from the bible) talk bout us NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! "CAN WE ALLLLL JUST GET LONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" N RODNEY KING BEEN STRUGGLIN' ERRRRYYY SINCE. LORD HELP US!!!!

Ms. Roland
January 24 2006, 6:13PM

I'm just tryin' to really "keeppp ittt realll!" On every level! Thanks:-) www.keepinitreal.squarespace.com

landy
January 24 2006, 6:16PM

Bishop Flunder's bio is a must-read...find out "who she is".

...from founder of the City of Refuge Community Church, a thriving inner-city congregation, uniting a gospel ministry with a social ministry.

...to recording with "Walter Hawkins and the Family" and the Love Center Choir.

...to being a consecrated Presiding Bishop of Refuge Ministries/Fellowship 2000 a multi-denominational fellowship of 50+ primarily African American Christian leaders and laity representing churches and faith-based organizations from all parts of the country and Africa.

...to Responding to the needs of the AIDS epidemic

...to being a consultant to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention....

Sounds to me she's doing more than thinking....She is somebody.

Check her out:
http://www.sfrefuge.org/yf_bio.shtml
and
http://www.arkofrefuge.org/flunder_bio_2004.shtml

Laura
January 24 2006, 6:26PM

"I'm a master debator"

lol, oh dear.

somehow, i don't doubt you really think that.

but you see, i don't scare easy, nor am i intimidated by a flurry of bible verses, exclamation points and the occasional SENTENCES IN ALL CAPS.

apology accepted i suppose (not that i'm kidding myself it really matters since you've already got me figured out anyway...), but honestly, i don't gauge myself on what biblical white people think. shower us with sermons and bible verses, i will grace you with the same.

it's called equality; i happen to think it's a good idea.

Ms. Roland
January 24 2006, 6:51PM

Ms. Laura...you not listenin' queen! Chill. I ain't tryin' to fight you girlfriend! I'm sure behind all the sarcasms is a beautiful person.:-) "CAN WE ALL JUST GET LONG!" N like I said...cause of the crab mentality.....Rodney King been strugglin' erry since!

Ms. Roland
January 24 2006, 7:05PM

Yeah Landy! I agree with you. I already checked out here bio! Definately impressive. She's doin' it!!! I celebrate her for real. I need to put her in my "Celebrate don't playah hate area of my site! Kudo's to her! www.keepinitreal.squarespace.com

Laura
January 24 2006, 10:06PM

"Ms. Laura...you not listenin' queen! "

we can all get along the minute heterosexual christians drop the pretense that they are our superiors and stop repeating the same sermonettes over and over and over.

until then, no, we cannot all get along.

Ursula
January 25 2006, 2:35PM

I checked out this web-site to see the press on my Pastor, Bishop Flunder. The conversations are thought provoking to say the least. I am indeed blessed to be a part of this ministry, even as a straight woman and single mother of two small children. Why? do you suppose this ministry is relevant to me, I could go anywhere and "blend in" so to speak. I am compelled to be a part of this ministry solely because of the leadership of my Pastor, Bishop Flunder. Over the years I have watched her, quietly and at times critically. Yet, always seeing the Power of God furthering this ministry because of her willingness to submit to God and not her own personal agendas (as sometimes Christian ministries do) Her agenda has always been the Lord's - She is a powerful voice for the underrepresented ( you fill in the blanks ), not just the LGBT population. I know her goal to spread the message of the reality of the Love and the fierce desire for personal relationship God has for all of us. This truth has kept me sane and alive in the middle of a chaotic world. I'm running out of room & time so I'll simply say that on behalf of my Bishop and the Fellowship 2000 come check us out and prepare to be amazed!!! We aren't hiding anything - secrets kill - We do however, live in the freedom that Jesus died to give everyone, not just an elite chosen few. The Bible is not a mystery to us, and the Gospel is not a message used to convert people to Holiness or Hell, but to personal relationship with God so we can be what He created us to be. Anything short of this is missing the mark or sin. So let us not miss the mark by the necessary politics involved here. We need as an African American community and church to have a real freedom in the church for all it's members to realize the aforementioned goal of any minister-to share Gospel, yet without discrimination. If anyone of us is bound, we are not truly free...
Peace & Blessing

Ursula
January 25 2006, 2:54PM

I neglected to include in my last comment that I do not feel superior to anyone who is LGBT. Most of my Spiritual leaders a described this way. I have not been more impowered,educated, accepted or loved from anyone else. The integrity level is high and I am privledged to raise my family here.