Whose God Do You Believe?

TheMindMatters
January 19 2006, 12:30PM

Oh, come on, you know the M.O. Aside from an ego stroke and political kick backs, something transpired that challenged Hutcherson's ability to publicly present himself, without question, as heterosexual or masculine---and this boycott is his way of saying to the white, male, heterosexual world, "I'm one a y'all." Membership does have its privileges.

It sounds more profitable to claim that one is representing the "will of God" than to admit that one is actually attempting to P-I-M-P God. Of course, there will always be Johns just waiting to be tricked.

James
January 19 2006, 12:39PM

Although I certainly do not believe that God randomly sent hurricanes to the people of New Orleans, the biblical God did send destruction, especially in the Old Testament scriptures. My problem with many liberals is that they say what is not the character of God, but they never provide concrete examples. God annihilated entire enclaves for their disobedience, idolatry, lack of compassion, etc. There is the infamous Sodom/Gomorrah, the incident with Noah, all of Saul's/David's God-ordained wars, etc. Although the God of the Bible is undeniably kind, altruistic, and full of love, His wrath cannot be ignored. In a quick search in my computer bible, I found "wrath of God" listed 37 times. That doesn't even include anger and other such terms. In the New Testament, God killed a man and his wife for simply lying about how much they sold land for. Yes, GOD DOES KILL.

Jeffrey Lanier Jones
January 19 2006, 12:51PM

It is so sad to see black ministers or anyone characterize God in a way that is not like Him. All who study the Bible knows that God is Love and He seeks the best for His children. That is His primary purpose for our lives. But the Bible also states that God is a God of Justice too. In my own Southern experience, I have found that many African Americans and others believe that Katrina was a way of God trying to get everyone's attention. I do not agree with Mayor Nagin's comment, but I do believe that we get so comfortable with our lives that we forget how we got to our respective positions and thus get self absorbed. Also, many people unfortunately quote and interpret the Bible to fulfill their own selfish motives, which is just morally wrong. Thus, we have this debate about gay rights in the country because of ignorant, prejudiced thinking. I think what is really missing is the fact that we are all human beings who want good lives and who want to live in peace. We always that we are linked in a chain of humanity and that should be more powerful than any prejudice.

Texas76132
January 19 2006, 12:54PM

Everyone has a scapegoat; unfortunately in the Black community, it's us gays and lesbians.

From day one, Black Christians in the Dallas\Fort Worth area have been saying that Katrina was God's way of punishing New Orleans because of the city's acceptance of gays and for living an exuberant lifestyle. The amen crowd is loud, clear and very mean-spirited. I'm sure the nasty comments on those so-called religious stations make Pat Robertson a very happy man every time they open their mouths.

The only reason why the Black community is mad at Ray Naygin is that he said the same thing about God and New Orleans. The problem was that his comments were directed at the heterosexual Blacks, and not the gays and lesbians. He rightly chastised them for their sins and the abandonment of Black children. I guess that mirror he put in their face was too hard for them to bare. Their response was predictable. Kill the message and the messenger. Anyway, the joke is on them because their double-standards will do them in one day and no Kirk Franklin song will help them out of it -assuming he's not watching porno somewhere.

donth8me
January 19 2006, 2:46PM

This doesn't surprise me at all. I often debate with conservatives on this issue and they often try their hardest to state certain scriptures in the bible. I'm religous and am aware of the fact that Christians are now under the new covenant of Jesus Christ, whose one and only commandment was to love thy brother as thy self. It is also my understanding that the words of Christ are scribed in Red, in most modern bibles. Stating that whose words are those in black? Words of the disciples right? Words of men and how they interpreted what God had told them. Basically, Religous leaders today scrutinize the bible and find ways of making their own agendas, God's agenda. On Larry King the other night there was a Religous conservative pastor on the show talking about Brokeback Mountain. Not only had he not seen the movie, but he felt it appropriate to debate it even though he had not seen the movie because he understood the plot. This goes to show that most religous leaders are illinformed, under-informed, and biased towards homosexuality. They debate and call it wrong with little research on their own part. They say sin is sin, well then they need to practice what they preach. You don't see any rallies against divorce, or protests against infidelity. I'd like to be shown where in the bible is the sin grid that Religous leaders often refer too in crucifying certain individuals for certain things that they dont agree with--It isnt there because no sin is worse than another, something they say they understand, but fail to adhere to.

jazzi
January 19 2006, 2:48PM

Am I the only one who thinks Ray Nagin is a dummy? Even before he made his little comment Monday, something about this guy seemed a little....oh I don't know, off? I'm not suprised at all by his comments. How did he get elected in the first place? The man is a joke, a very bad joke. Just another vivid example of how incompetent people can get into high positions & just scew peoples lives up. But for this nut, the people of New Orleans would have been better prepared for Katrina. "Just send 'em to the Super Dome with no food, water, or security & they'll be fine". Spoken like a true leader!

Memo_SW
January 19 2006, 2:57PM

I know where some people come off and try to discriminate against other people especially when they are an African-American minister. After all the hatred that black people had to deal with in the 50's and 60's, the Rev. seems to be reintroducing that same hatred in the 21st century which is a shame. We all need to pray for him that he realize what errors he is making and introducing into the world and to our children. As for the mayor's comments, he never said anything deroratory towards gays and lesbians. I actually believe what he said to be true and people here in America just don't want to hear it. Black people DO need to clean up their acts. Black people, as a race, have come a long way to get where we are and certainly we need to stop acting as if God is not watching what we are doing. All the the things the mayor described is TRUE and we as black people need to do something about it. We need to take care of our children and our women.And possibly more importantly, our men. African American men in this country have been victimized and labled to the extreme. Also he was very correct about the war in Iraq as well. Bush has created something now that can't be undone and who knows what the repercussions could be. Now America has threats for Bin Laden about more attacks on America. When will the killing stop??

Memo_SW

Regan DuCasse
January 19 2006, 3:12PM

I wonder when, with equal zeal, this Hutcherson would want 'religious backgroun' stricken from the laws as a 'protected class'?

He is after all, engaging in a lifestyle of choice. A chosen situation he could abandon at will or utilize to whatever level he wants to for himself.
And those who want to share that lifestyle have the same access as well.

In that case...what he really should be doing is either supporting laws that protect everyone's ECONOMIC stability.
These companies he wants to punish employ thousands. And HE doesn't seem to have the capital to offer an alternative job if these companies go south.

Consdering the brain trust and talent evident in the gay community, and how many gay people have their own companies such as Mitchell/Gold-he's talking about shooting a strong economic power in the head.

What a hypocrite though, for taking full advantage of being a protected class, while trying to keep civil protections from others.

Jeff Hobbs
January 19 2006, 4:26PM

I am highly embarassed by this man since I am a Seattle resident. Seattle is a city that celbrates diversity and the city officials here are very gay friendly and supportive. I'm surprised someone in office hasn't spoken out against this man because that is not what Seattle is all about. Where is the local NAACP that last year was touting support for gays and lesbians of color at gay pride? I don't get it. How is there a black pastor in Redmond of all places. Redmond is the whitest suburb in town along with Bellevue and Kirkland. You only live there if you've got big bucks and either play for the Seahawks or the Sonics or have a key position at Microsoft. No one else can afford to live there. I think this man is trying to score some points with his rich congregation. I think he's just been turned down too many times online when he tried to hook up!:) lol If i had a dollar for every man I've met here in Seattle and later found out he was involved in the church as either a minister or a married man going to church with the family and is cattin on the low...i'd have at least twenty dollars!! :) This stuff is getting old. I think Keiths 'Beyond The Down Low' needs to be sitting in the pew next to the Bible.

Forever Barri
January 19 2006, 4:34PM

Do people actually wake up and decide that homosexuality is a platform for immediate debate? We are in dire times concerning terrorism and a un-trust worthy presidential administration, how can someone possibly be concerned with who fellow Americans, fellow “free” Americans are choosing to love? Even more importantly, how can an Afro-American have the audacity to question another minority’s desire to have equal rights and protections under American law? I believe that Hutchinson needs to be re-educated, if in fact he was to begin with, on the struggle of freedom and equality in the 50’s and 60’s. Now as for Mayor Ray Nagin, he either does not truly understand the importance of his legacy as a black mayor or he is indeed truly lost. Publicity and media coverage as a whole is so sought after by all mediums today it isn’t even funny. Using GOD to persuade and influence is totally nothing new in the world today. The GOD I worship is a forgiving GOD and I do not believe he would deliberately targeted one state in order to get his point across. No human is so equip that he or she can predict the outcome of an individual’s judgment or judgment day.

Luke
January 19 2006, 4:37PM

The Bible, God, Religions, Sacred Scriptures and Traditions, Philosophies, Divine Laws, … Voices from Some Heaven, and so on; all have been used for building and destruction, for life and death, for enslavement and freedom, for love and hate, for war and peace, for condemnation and acceptance; the list could go on and on.

Sure, we have to respect freedom of opinion, belief, speech and expression. This works both ways for those who strongly believe in their God and those who believe in different God concepts, or no-God.

But, for those who believe in God (the traditional Judeo-Christian God:) here are a few thoughts and questions.
Why was one third of Europe wiped out (killed/died) with the Plague in the 14th Century?
Why does Africa seem to be “targeted” by disasters, famine, endless and cruel tribal wars, by infection and disease, abused, robbed, and invaded, by Western and other societies and cultures that claimed – with the alleged consent of their god - to be superior, committing awful atrocities to that continent and its population?
Why was slavery, and beyond slavery, the horrific treatment of Black people, accepted and justified by allegedly Bible reading Christians?
Why have there always been diseases and natural catastrophes throughout all history?
Why is the United States a Democracy, whereas there is absolutely nothing about Democracy in the Judeo-Christian Scriptures? Democracy is more Pagan (Greek) than Judeo-Christian in nature and origin.
Why is there in fact so much hate against the gay lifestyle by Christians, whereas Christ preached tolerance and love, and he never ever condemned gays (homosexuals,) let alone even mentioned them?
Why do so many overlook biblical passages where same-sex love and same sex relationships are accepted instead of condemned?
Why are Christians selectively reading their bible, with skillful mental gymnastics, validating some rules and blatantly and conveniently overlooking other rules?
Reading and consistently following ALL the rules and precepts of the bible literally would make life today impossible to live.
And why are “we” so sure that the bible is indeed the word of god and the only word of god? [on purpose all on lower case]
The bible seems to be a history of war after war, supported and/or instigated by a god promoting merciless invasions and killings of peoples and kings. Was this a model for the invasion of the Americas and its original inhabitants?

And finally, just one more additional thought and question out of many, out of the Bible – for those who read it:
Is the woman-loving heterosexual male of the superior orientation? This is what the prophet Isaiah said; Isaiah 54:3-5
…
neither let the eunuch say,
Behold I am a dry tree.
For thus saith the Lord unto the eunuchs
that keep my sabbaths,
and choose the things that please me,
and take hold of my Covenant
Even unto them will I give in mine house
and within my walls a place and a name
better than of sons and of daughters:
I will give them an everlasting name,
that shall not be cut off.

"… a name better than of sons and of daughters " Does God have second thoughts about "Be fruitful and multiply?"

Anyone who has read the Gospels thoroughly knows that Jesus had patience and forgiveness with just about anybody but hypocrites and people who are quick to judge others.

Oh, my God, if only we knew … !

Jeff Hobbs
January 19 2006, 4:38PM

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/jamieson/256232_robert19.html even the seattle newspaper is not supportive of this mans actions! check it out.

Luke in Vancouver BC
January 19 2006, 5:14PM

The Bible, God, Religions, Sacred Scriptures and Traditions, Philosophies, Divine Laws, … Voices from Some Heaven, and so on; all have been used for building and destruction, for life and death, for enslavement and freedom, for love and hate, for war and peace, for condemnation and acceptance; the list could go on and on.

Sure, we have to respect freedom of opinion, belief, speech and expression. This works both ways for those who strongly believe in their God and those who believe in different God concepts, or no-God.

But, for those who believe in God (the traditional Judeo-Christian God:) here are a few thoughts and questions.
Why was one third of Europe wiped out (killed/died) with the Plague in the 14th Century?
Why does Africa seem to be “targeted” by disasters, famine, endless and cruel tribal wars, by infection and disease, abused, robbed, and invaded, by Western and other societies and cultures that claimed – with the alleged consent of their god - to be superior, committing awful atrocities to that continent and its population?
Why was slavery, and beyond slavery, the horrific treatment of Black people, accepted and justified by allegedly Bible reading Christians?
Why have there always been diseases and natural catastrophes throughout all history?
Why is the United States a Democracy, whereas there is absolutely nothing about Democracy in the Judeo-Christian Scriptures? Democracy is more Pagan (Greek) than Judeo-Christian in nature and origin.
Why is there in fact so much hate against the gay lifestyle by Christians, whereas Christ preached tolerance and love, and he never ever condemned gays (homosexuals,) let alone even mentioned them?
Why do so many overlook biblical passages where same-sex love and same sex relationships are accepted instead of condemned?
Why are Christians selectively reading their bible, with skillful mental gymnastics, validating some rules and blatantly and conveniently overlooking other rules?
Reading and consistently following ALL the rules and precepts of the bible literally would make life today impossible to live.
And why are “we” so sure that the bible is indeed the word of god and the only word of god? [on purpose all on lower case]
The bible seems to be a history of war after war, supported and/or instigated by a god promoting merciless invasions and killings of peoples and kings. Was this a model for the invasion of the Americas and its original inhabitants?

And finally, just one more additional thought and question out of many, out of the Bible – for those who read it:
Is the woman-loving heterosexual male of the superior orientation? This is what the prophet Isaiah said; Isaiah 54:3-5
…
neither let the eunuch say,
Behold I am a dry tree.
For thus saith the Lord unto the eunuchs
that keep my sabbaths,
and choose the things that please me,
and take hold of my Covenant
Even unto them will I give in mine house
and within my walls a place and a name
better than of sons and of daughters:
I will give them an everlasting name,
that shall not be cut off.

"… a name better than of sons and of daughters " Does God have second thoughts about "Be fruitful and multiply?"

Anyone who has read the Gospels thoroughly knows that Jesus had patience and forgiveness with just about anybody but hypocrites and people who are quick to judge others.

Oh, my God, if only we knew … !

Luke in Vancouver BC
January 19 2006, 5:17PM

I apologize for the repeat comment. Something went wrong, probably my fault.

fayeharris
January 19 2006, 5:28PM

i,am confused what everhappen to love thou neighbor as thou self?somebody tell me why god sent all those hurricanes to florida/ are do we already know that to,somebody tellme pleeeeeese i just need to know. love is love it don,t have aface,color,we are who we are no matter what. peace love ,and hope for another day. faye

Derrick from Philly
January 19 2006, 5:43PM

Luke: Thank you for that well thought out and well written posting--and also informative.

When people like Rev. Hutcherson say that Gay people are going to hell, I say, Good, 'cause if the folks up in heaven are like y'all Bible beaten buffoons, I'd rather go to hell. I can't stand to spend ten minutes near them ignorant hypocrite church nigg...I mean, Negroes here on Earth, why the hell would I want to spend an eternity near 'em?

Men like Rev. Hutcherson are just envious of us because they look so damn ugly and we Gays are so damn pretty...well, most of us are...well, a clear majority of us are...COMPARED TO HIS UGLY ASS, WE ARE.

Reg
January 19 2006, 6:38PM

Most people have made a mockery of God. While it has been said that we were made in the image of God, it seems that this God we are always talking about, is actually after our own likeness. I've found that if you take the worst human qualities and add omnipotence and extreme anger, you get to be a God. I am very tired of people taking up a "call" to bash others and to ensure discrimination based on their ideas about my God. I'm wondering why people are so adamant about gay-bashing. "Thou dost protest too much." I wouldn't be surprised if all of these so called men/women of God/ homophobes were all very uncomfortable and confused about their own sexualities. But why take it out on the rest of us?

Anyway, that's my piece.

Me.

cmoney
January 19 2006, 9:12PM

No Jazzi, You aren't the only one who thinks Nagin's an idiot. He has demonstrated time and again his incompetence everytime he opens his mouth. Once again, we need to judge these Black leaders by the "content of their character and not the color of their skin". This guy is a total embarassment. He get's no free pass for saying racist things just because he is Black. How would he feel if a White mayor said that his town was reserved for "Vanilla" people? He would be up in arms. Any public figure with half a brain knows you can't publicly advocate racial discrimination. What makes his comment even more ironic is the fact that he was elected largely by the White community in New Orleans. The African-American community in the N.O. never fully embraced him, and in fact, rejected him. Notice that he didn't go to the Super Dome in the aftermath of Katrina? He would have been torn apart if he set foot in that place--by the "Chocolate" people!

Texas76132
January 19 2006, 10:51PM

Jazzi,

I'm in full agreement. Every time he speaks, I wonder where are is political handlers. He may have the best intentions, but he's a first term mayor with no prior political experience. This Katrina mess is way over his head.

M
January 20 2006, 5:20PM

Hutchinson is a pet of Dr. James Dobson who is trying to plant roots in the Pacific Northwest out of his Colorado Springs, Colorado headquarters.

A local organization called CRISTA Ministries, based in the Kirkland suburb (I think) operates a "Christian" music Radio station
(KCMS). Dobson has been strengthening his profile and voice on that station - or CRISTA has been giving him more mic time. Also, Dobson held one of his "Mayday for Marriage" events (opposing equal access to marriage rights by same-sex couples) in SAFECO Field the home of the Mariners Baseball team a year or so ago which drew in thousands out of the local suburbs, marshes and backwoods. I think god cursed their 2005 season, but that's just me... lol

There is no local progressive religious media to speak of, and none seem to make it onto KCMS.

Hutchinson probably believes in the rightness of his views or believes in the career/economic necessity of being in the religious right; neither of which are virtuous.

I know you all don't venture out this way much to know first-hand, but let us not mistake "Redmond" a suburb to the second degree as being "Seattle".

LaPaienne
January 20 2006, 7:52PM

The mailing address to the Antioch Bible Church office is:
8210 154th Ave NE
Redmond, WA 98052 - 3877

The church address itself is:
15135 NE 92nd St
Redmond, WA 98052 - 3553

Let's write Rev. Hutcherson and tell him what we think of his bigotry. If he is intent upon forcing Old Testament values upon the rest of us, then it is only a matter of time before he starts calling for laws to put children who talk back to their parents to death.

We're tired of the belligerant attitude of these people. It's time we let them know we won't be pushed around.

denise
January 20 2006, 11:23PM

at first i thought keith/jasmyne's deal a little immature, and not the way to handle church attending devils, like the fool - as if bill gates is shaking in his boots... but i'm coming around... i don't mind fighting fire with fire... and can be very creative when it comes to how i fight... so when do we start...

as for nagin... first what he said was not racist, secondly, he said it because there is no way in hell he is going to be mayor again, and this was a last ditch effort to try and garner black support - which he did not have before.

latisha
January 21 2006, 9:28AM

If "Christians" could remember, and myself included that "God's thoughts are not our thoughts, and God's ways are not our ways."

Yes, this is in scripture. I agree, such a way to limit God on His thought process, is nonesense

bevene
January 31 2006, 9:44AM

In Mayor Naygin's defence... Where was he supposed to send the thousands of people who had no place/no one to go to and no money to pay for accommodation outside New Orleans? If he had taken the initiative to pile the people into school buses, where would he have told the bus drivers to take them before Katrina hit? No one would have wanted them moving into their territory (remember the Sheriff who kept people off at gunpoint from crossing the bridge into his town)at that point in time! Until the shame of their terrible plight was revealed to the whole world, Houston, etc. would not have (as you all say) 'stepped up to the plate'!

BB