A Hot Mess

CL
November 9 2005, 4:59PM

What a STAGE to sell books and movies. O don't you have enough money already ?

cmoney
November 9 2005, 5:11PM

Since Keith started a new thread, I am reposting here:
I just watched Oprah and Terry McMillan gang up on Plummer. It was ridiculous. McMillan came off as immature and down right silly. I expected more from a person of her stature. She came off as someone who was upset that her boy toy grew up not that her husband cheated on her and turned out to be gay. Her voice mails were foul and hateful. What's more, she looked and acted like his mother. Oprah had nerve to ask Plummer why he wanted any of McMillan's money. Of course it would be politically incorrect to ask a woman the same question when she files for divorce. I guess Oprah never bothered to think that McMillan made millions of off the story she wrote about her life with Plummer. Stupid old bags! Ain't it interesting that Oprah bought the rights to Terry McMillan's new book? Plummer is getting played by these two "ladies" to make more money for them. I hope he does get paid!

sunnyb
November 9 2005, 5:26PM

to the above commentor. I care to differ, McMillan outright admitted that she gave Plummer a gift of 10% of what she made of Stella. The show was a success and Oprah remained objective she did a great job. If I was Terry I would have chewed him alive. She gave sweet Johnny a lease on life from crime ridden jamaica he is ungrateful and should be treated as such, he is dishonest and deserves absolutely nothing more than his memories.

Keith why are you so anti JL King? Though King's books were good stories, I thought your book was well researched and thought out. No matter what you say he is doing a service to black women who were in the dark.

alicia banks
November 9 2005, 5:27PM

if oprah were truly a gay ally
maybe she and steadman would have defended/joined jonathan....rather than set him up for a slaying....hmmmm?

peace
ab

Corece(MS)
November 9 2005, 6:07PM

This made so very upset.
It just reinforced how the media holds so much power to socialize our society with such none sense. They never take inconsideration the other side. Like why he left her, that woman dingo would have made me want to experiment too. Did you see how forceful she was.
oooooooh no Terry!

Heath Miller
November 9 2005, 6:10PM

Is Oprah considering a name change? Today's show was something I would have expected to see on the Maury Show. Oprah took sides instead of remaining neutral. The show gratuitously played Terry's phone tirades to Jonathan. What was the point of that? I came away from the show thinking, "Wow, that Terry has one hell of a mouth!" And why didn't Oprah say something when Terry compared homosexuality to alcoholism? Such analogy only reinforces propaganda that to be gay is to have a disease. I was quite disappointed with today's show.

Greasy Guide
November 9 2005, 6:19PM

My problem was that everny one assumes that gay people all have aids/hiv. Terri should know better to make a statement like that. And Oprah being Ms. Know-It-All should have correncted her at least.

Anyway you can read more of my comments at
http://dagreasyguide.blogspot.com/

a BrOtHa NaMeD $HaRiF
November 9 2005, 6:20PM

The show was O.K. but it was not at all what I expected, I really did not care for the comment that Terry McMillian made on the clip that was shown on her appearance on Tavis Smiley's show, she said that she was mad as hell when she found out her husband was gay because she had to go get tested because by him being gay he could have given her AIDS, I kind of gotten the impression that she was implying that if you gay you have AIDS. Well, if you are out here doing the damn thing (Sexn it!) you should get tested regardless if you are straight, bisexual, homosexual or whatever. A condom is not 100% safe proof, it just lowers the risk of catching HIV/AIDS. This seem to be the impression a lot of African-Americans have, they think that only gays catch HIV/AIDS, a lot of the straight people are straight up promiscuous and hoes. A lot of women don't even know who the hell their baby daddy is (Check out the Maury's show if you don't believe me).

***a BrOtHa NaMeD $HaRiF***

Derrick
November 9 2005, 6:24PM

I am so disgusted.....

LH
November 9 2005, 6:24PM

Ummmm, where do I begin. Personally, I find it outlandish and peculiar when anyone states that he/she was an adult and had not done any self-examination in regards to sexuality. Ok...so society has always sad that being gay was strange. I still vividly recall erections from watching "Saved by the Bell" when I was seven. Yes, there was just something about Slater's chest. Furthermore, I vividly recall my interest in the male's anatomy, and that I would quickly pay more attention to older boys at the swimming pool than I would girls. I thought this behavior was strange, so I certainly never told anyone about it for years; however, I WAS very much so cognizant of my feelings. THAT is what Oprah was trying to get Jonathan to admit. We understand that Jamaica is a highly homophobic place and homosexuals suffer brutality on a consistent basis. Such an atmosphere would clearly send one into the proverbial closet, but a truly introspective individual would recognize WHY he is in the closet. Since sexuality is such an intrinsic part of one's identity, what were you prior to the homosexual epiphany, heterosexual or asexual? If one was heterosexual, then how did he/she suddenly become homosexual? That would apply the notion that you could then change back to being heterosexual. If you were living a heterosexual live, but then say that you were homosexual all along, wouldn't you refer back to times of reflection to validate that idea that you subconsciously always had little moments? I just don't understand this newfound awareness. It implies the idea that you changed sexuality, not that you ALWAYS were. Why are you gay now? Did it randomly occur to you? Had you NEVER thought about it before then? Strange I say...VERY strange.

Damion
November 9 2005, 6:24PM

I'm lost but not really. Did the exchange between Plummer and McMillian seem fake at all to you guys? Although she didnt' plug her book, I just felt like the whole thing was as Mr. Boykin titled it "a hot mess" i'll add on to it "a hot fonky moving...mess!"

terranceH
November 9 2005, 6:24PM

I'm a gay male and watched the show. I actually sympathized with both sides. First, I can see why Terry was hurt and disappointed and shouldn't give a damn dime to Jonathan. His ass signed a prenup (albeit he was young)and he needs to "man-up" and get his ass a job.

I also sympathize with Jonathan in telling lie after lie because he didn't want to hurt her. Also, I can see why the brotha was tired of being with her....she wore the damn pants in the relationship and seemed to be very controlling. Terry needs to go and get herself a man closer to her age and stop picking up young men on her vacations and then complain when the shit hits the fan.

And Miss Oprah....I'm tired of your tail pretending that this whole notion of the "gay life" is new to you. You know Stedman gets down and you and Gail wear those matching pinky rings for a REASON.

Damion
November 9 2005, 6:30PM

Jonathan could have cut the show down to about 5 mins by simply saying "i fucked up." an apology and an explanation in one sentence. " i fucked up." Everything that came out of his mouth was dumb. Terry was just hood up there (but i liked it). How the hell do you not know as a grown man, that you like men! Then he contradicted himself by admitting he had an affair. You know what i think? I think terry caught him, or he came out to him a while ago and after a while she was like "boo, you wanna make some money? Let's go public with a nasty divorce...I mean put ALL out business out there. Write a book and then I bet the book will sale like crack!" and he was like "yeah." Then when that BS didn't work, Oprah called. You know everybody wanna see them on the same show as bout as bad as everyone wanted to see bobby and whitney. Watch those sales tomorrow!

LH
November 9 2005, 6:33PM

Also, Terry gave him 150,000 for the book, 50,000 in spousal support, and she paid off his car. He's broke? I'm with Terry, "GET A DAMN JOB." She WORKED for her money...all he did was lay pipe. To borrow a cliché from the Pentecoastal church, "THE DEVIL IS A LIE!"

LH
November 9 2005, 6:34PM

Also, Terry gave him 150,000 for the book, 50,000 in spousal support, and she paid off his car. He's broke? I'm with Terry, "GET A DAMN JOB." While they were married, she spent 300,000 on him a dog grooming business! She WORKED for her money...all he did was lay pipe. To borrow a cliché from the Pentecoastal church, "THE DEVIL IS A LIE!"

Roger
November 9 2005, 6:37PM

This obsession Oprah has with the DL has me curious about her own relationship, and if she is still worried about her own lover's sex life.

She seemed almost unable to contain herself, or Terri for that matter, and I can't help but wonder why?

sunnyb
November 9 2005, 6:43PM

stedman isnt gay! just because he is handsome and he hasnt married oprah yet that does mean that he checks mikes! he isnt gay!

HumanityCritic
November 9 2005, 7:01PM

Keith, I'm glad you pointed out that she was indeed a hot mess. Listen, I'm a heterosexual man and I found her comparing homosexuality to "alcoholism" pretty damn ignorant and offensive. The was Oprah had her "back" was kind of shameful too, I understand that they are both black women but Oprah was once a reporter so the word "objective" couldn't have escaped her vocabulary that fast.

Not only that, why was it so "unbelievable" that her husband didn't know he was gay until he was 20. A friend of mines father came out when he was 50, so it isn't like crop circles or stonehenge..

Kola Boof
November 9 2005, 7:12PM

That was the very first time that I have ever seen "Jonathan" on live action t.v.-----and I really liked him.

I think he has a good heart, and I believe that he's a good person.

I feel for TERRY and I'm on her side, but I..STILL FELT, that prenup or not---he should have gotten "something" out of the marriage....just like young starlets get when they get divorced from rich older men.

Not anything over the top--but he should have gotten something on GP.

I was very sad that they can't be friends. They have such great chemistry.

How sad.

I hope that Terry will go on and date other men, but be WISER this time.

KOLA

Forever Barri
November 9 2005, 7:14PM

Like I stated in my response to the previous article discussing this Oprah episode, I knew Oprah would take Terry's side. This was a setup from the start. How can two supposedly heterosexual women of color bring to light anything positive about the trials and tribulations of a minority male coming to terms with his true sexual identity? And whose to say Oprah ever intended to shed a positive light on this situation? And yes, we can look a Terry as being a victim, but at the same time, Terry also made the conscious decision to date and marry this man who is definitely much younger than she is. Terry to me seems to be a very intelligent woman; who freely writes about telltale signs of the rights, wrongs and possibilities of minority love; how could she have not known? To me, this episode is yet another plight to further exploit the men of color who are at a crossroads with their sexuality. Attention men, here is the plight of the angry “victimized” women of color….And so the war of the “DL” husbands and the devoted, loving wives has taken a very public turn because of Oprah. Keith, I look forward to you critiquing or showcasing the next “DL” movie that will address the entity of “celebrity”.

ME
November 9 2005, 7:18PM

Johnathan was pretty much a blond. Cute but dumb as a rat. I still like Terry, althought I am still convinced she was too self absorbed to see "the truth". Ray Charles knew the boy had sugar in his tank. Go figure.
Oprah-you r right! the "dumb" role she plays
about DL and such....come on...Stedman/Andre..people stories have been floating around Chicago for years. I accidentally heard one from folks she used to hob-nob with back in the day. My jaw was dropped and I left the room. Forever. Oprah still my girl!

Bobby Brown Jr.
November 9 2005, 7:20PM

A hot mess is definitely putting it lightly. This was a HOT FUCKING MESS! Its funny b/c I read this post after I posted mine (www.beingbobbybrownjr.blogspot.com) but we are saying almost the exact same thing. Terry really showed who the real socialpath is. She needs to take responsibility for her role in this whole ordeal. I'm so disappointed in Oprah for not only taking Terry's side but not being objective in her delivery. I've already emailed her and told her she needs to do a real show about homosexuality with REAL experts so she can get some enlightment.

Kennedy
November 9 2005, 7:50PM

I'm just curious to know why Keith removed the comments section from his post where he shamelessly begs the community for money to fund not a cause like AIDS, HOMOSEXUAL AWARENESS, ETC. but a movie. Keith, grow up!

LB
November 9 2005, 7:52PM

She is on drugs it seems, or she has tourettes. I feel no sympathy for them displaying their business out there. What is the desired reuslt of this? How does one heal publically! I did not buy this fiasco for one minute there was no beginning nor end. Oprah really shocked me with here naivety. She lost major points from me. Alcohol and being gay? WHAT!I know we often do and say things, when we are not in our right mind e.g Whitney and Bobby reality show. Who are the people behind these people (PR, publicists)? Celebs have a lot more at risk or to gain by revealing there "life stories." Let's all remember it is entertainment and the people we see on the screen are rarely that in their private life. MONEY by any means. That's why it is called "SHOW" business, the show(spectacle) generates business.

Roger
November 9 2005, 7:52PM

I don't believe Stedman is gay, either.

What I meant to say is that these shows seem have more to do with Oprah's own insecurities, as well as those of her audience.

Miss Pick
November 9 2005, 9:21PM

I agree that Oprah was solidly in Terry McMillan's corner, but that's probably because she could better relate to her situation and probably what happened to Terry represents a fear she has.

Personally, I don't think that while Jonathan is handling his confusion that it's okay for him to go fumbling and bumbling and crashing around in somebody else's life. He does not get a pass because he was confused. When it's about a lifelong commitment like Marriage, if you are confused, the correct answer is NO.

Liquid Fonts
November 9 2005, 9:25PM

I felt that Jonathan Plummer could have been more assertive in shooting down the idea that a NON GAY person has the authority to decide for the world, the age at which a person knows he's gay. Plummer also should have been more willing to rip into Oprah when she baited him just as Terry seemed not to care to make Oprah look dumb for asking that question that lead to Terry's insensitive alcoholism comparison.(And to think she got an article in this months Advocate about how she aint no homophobe!)

Plummer should have let it be known that its completely reasonable and fair for him to get some coins out of that marriage(if only because he had to eat that old bags pussy and we all KNOW she made him eat it from all the innuendo about how he stopped "loving" her that way)

Instead of playing the self righteous, pissed off black gay man who had had enough, which is really the type of ammo needed for Oprah and Terry, Plummer just sat there as if all that moisturizer on his face would fight the battle for him.

So sad So lame.

jazzi
November 9 2005, 9:40PM

A hot mess, Keith? Am I detecting an anti-Terry, pro-Jonathan-just-because-he's-gay sentiment? She articulated her case, finally got Jonathan to admit he cheated on her (he was denying it all along) & didn't act ugly toward him like I though she was. I loved her! Personality wise, she is very forceful. I can see who had the upper hand in that marriage but is it her fault he's....soft, sweet, sensitive, delicate, gentle, passive, non-assertive, a cream puff, a punk, a whimp, the "yes dear" type? He acted as if he'd break down if Terry yelled at him. She talked all over him because he's weak & didn't have his story together. He contradicted himself. He should have rehearsed. When Oprah asked him why he felt he deserved money, he couldn't even answer her. All he could do was look down & smile. She asked tough questions & said things that needed to be said & not one time did he challenge her. Why? Because he knew there was really no justification to actions against her. Even if he didn't "know" until recently that he was gay, how does that make him eligible for half of Terry's money? If you didn't know or weren't sure before, you are now. Move on & find a job.

E-RED
November 9 2005, 9:49PM

I ain't sayin he a gold-digga ... but he ain't fuggin w/no broke ... sista (*LAFF*)

Drama notwithstanding, I must say I believe Mr. Plummer when he said he didn't know he was gay when he married "Terrance." In fact, some of the best sex I've ever had was w/dudes who had just divorced their wives, saying they truthfully didn't know they were gay until they hit almost 30 ... and were trying the "alternative" thing for the first time. Why was it the best sex? Because the sex was straight-up honest. (I only expect a few of you to get what I mean by 'honest' ... but think about what most guys expect to get out of the sex w/another dude: a selfish nut, a chance to "have" somebody more masculine/attractive/popular than they are -- anything other than honest, male-male affirmation) Given the rigid construct of Black male masculinity (as generally accepted), so many of us grow up steeped in the icons of becoming a strong, black man, and only know one life-path: womanize while in college, join a fraternity, get your degree, get married, get a nice looking female on your arm, and make some babies. Regretably, if that's all you know, the only parts of your male personality you consciously allow yourself to manifest are those parts which affirm heteronormative masculinity. Tragically, occaisionally it does take going through ALL THAT, before realizing that something else real exists inside you ...

Do y'all bruhs understand where I'm coming from?

I importune you. Don't judge Mr. Plummer -- neither judge Ms. Terry for her histrionics (for all she knows is being uber extra -- after all, didn't being over the top make her cash money??)

Best practice? Let's make this episode a referendum on Black manhood, and choose to affirm our sons based on gender, rather than sexuality.

One. E-RED

cmoney
November 9 2005, 9:50PM

It's always the man's fault in Oprah's world. If a 40 year old man went down to Jamaica or the D.R., met a fine 20 year old chiquita who fucked his brains out, brought her home and married her, everyone would say he's a fool and getting used. When she gets her citizenship a few years on and them leaves him, everyone will say: "I told you so. You didn't see she was using you?, What a fool you were!" However, when rich old Terri McMillan does the exact same thing and her boytoy leaves her, she's a "victim" and he's a horrible person. He's "DL"!! How dare he do that to her! Nobody blames her for being a self centered, manipulative slut and a fool. Nobody says "I told you so". But that's Oprah's world--Black women are never at fault. They are always victims. And then they wonder why some Black men marry white women!

Shabaka
November 9 2005, 9:58PM

Okay...Where do I begin?
Oprah,girl....Shame on you!! For someone of her stature she shoulda known better than using her ill-informed analogies!!
Lemme tell you what I'm pretty sure is what happened in that household!
Old hag Terry goes to Jamaica,she ain't got "none", as she admitted, in a long time. There walks "handsome",teenaged Jonathan and they click.Now coming from a culture with certain similar aspects culture-wise, I can understand why a young boy would easily "swing" both ways!. Well Terry is a charming woman,even more so ten years ago. So Jonathan must have thought:"Well...Why not?"
The rest is history and a movie. Now fast-forward to years later in California where Jonathan has litteraly matured up and realized that women are not exactly his cup of tea. Well he starts to pull away. Terry, the bitch that we all now realize that she is couldn't have it of course. Boom!! Jonathan snaps after a nite with the boyz downtown LA...Boom!! Terry throws him out!...The rest is on CNN.com
Fast-forward again to today's show. Oprah,being the amazing woman that she is but also being the insecure,used and abused woman that she'll never cease to be,takes sides...
The rest is well-put by my fellow posters below...

Cheers again!!!
P.S: Has America ever heard of Bisexuality? Has anyone ever read Alfred Kinsey? No? Please run to the nearest bookstore before they close for the nite. LOL.

Liquid Fonts
November 9 2005, 10:09PM

Jazzi, unfortunately I think the emotional deck was simply stacked against Jonathan, I mean 2 powerful black women on a show made for women with an audience filled with women all against a young black man who just came out is hardly fair because he had to not only speak his truth but also unravel all the homophobic/heterosexist/feminist coded myths about gays and men which is a bit much so Of course he stumbled over his words and came off sounding dumb, he clearly had no support, nobody in his corner. Had that audience been filled with just as man gay men as there were str8 women the reactions would have been different. Perhaps he would have found a leg to stand on.

Oprah and Terry's behavior on the show reinforced for me the idea that some women are so desperate for power and moral high ground that they will step on the backs of those less fortunate and who have fewer rights and less of a voice than themselves i.e. a young black gay dude in order to acheive the appearance of "movin on up".

Jonathan's passive behavior on the show simply reinforced for me the idea that black gay men will always come in last, be seen as freuds and have the weakest voice unless we decide to show up for one another, encourgage one another to be ourselves, support one another.

cool
November 9 2005, 11:08PM

Just watch that shyt.

Oprah was the real villain of the piece. She was in the way, and clearly had her own agenda.

Terry still loves that kat. But, she started out the interview comparing him to a puppy she just picked up to "lick" her when she needed it. And that was all it was meant to be.

Yet, Oprah criticizes Plump as a "user."

He did a good job explaining why being gay was not an option for him at twenty. Millions of Americans endure sexless marriages for a lot of different reasons. I know str8 men who have not had sex with their frigid wives in years.

Oprah revealed why her old ass ain't married. Go ahead a protect that money, baby. "Don't die lonely, have it all prearranged. Bury you in a grave deep and wide enough for you, and all your mountains of thangs."

At least Terry took a chance on love. And those two people still love each other. She will always be there for him because he 'licked' her when no other man would.

Life, is stranger than her fiction.

Erick
November 10 2005, 12:07AM

I'm disappointed to hear Oprah's show with Terry McMillan and her ex-husband was not about educating Americans about about fear and denial in relation to homosexuality but about persecuting a gay man. So many heterosexuals seem shocked many gays & lesbians are afraid to face their homosexuality forgetting so many of us hear the taunting, name-calling and outright hatred from a very early age. It is very possible to be in denial as an adult. Oprah's very one-sided, biased broadcast today was disheartening and a reminder that even the most celebrated nurturer can be prejudiced.

LH
November 10 2005, 12:43AM

Oh, and from a shallow and purely aestetic view, can we say TOO MUCH MAKEUP! Jonathan, foundation less, powder more! The clip they showed of him outside on the steps....WHEW, he looked ready to be buried. As with makeup, the same applies for eyebrows, LESS IS BETTER. How could she not have known he was gay looking like that? You don't just suddenly come out and get that extreme!

joneshot
November 10 2005, 1:39AM

Keith,

I saw the pictures of your before 25 days. You were gay then, really gay.

edwin greene
November 10 2005, 6:46AM

Jazzi,

Your comtempt/ambivalence for gay black men is so obvious. First, according to you, we gay black men brought HIV/AIDS, to the supposedly sexually pure (which we all know is a lie) straight black community.

Now "punk" (and all the other words you used to describe him) Jonathan is gang banged on national television by two straight black women (both old enough to be his mama) and you loved it. Of course you would. Oh well.

Our enemies come in all kinds of packages, posing as "friends".

When will we gay black men learn that we only have each other and it's us against the world. I could stand to learn this lesson more effectively myself. The Oprah show was depressing.

jazzi
November 10 2005, 8:27AM

When Oprah asked Jonathan if he "repressed" his sexuality, he said yes. My thing is, you can't repress something that you aren't aware of. You can only do that if you know it's there & don't want to face or deal with it. So he contradicted himself when he said he only recently became aware of his sexuality. He knew all along but choose to repress it. And he finally told the truth about having sex with men while still married to Terry. You may remember he was denying this.

As I've said before, this guy was tired of faking the funk. He wanted to be free. I don't fault him for that. What bothered me was the way he tried to sue Terry for money. Oprah asked him how he could think he was due anything & even he couldn't answer that one.

Jonathan, you wanted to be free, now you are. No more lies & deceit & treachery. Here's to you & an open, honest life!

jazzi
November 10 2005, 8:41AM

And Edwin, your boy wasn't "gangbanged" on tv, he was sandbagged. His lies were laid bare & he couldn't run away & hide from them. He even said the situation could have been handle much better.

As far as HIV/AIDS being introduced to the Black community, who do you suppose introduced it? White gay men? The Government? Monkeys? THE DEVIL?

Terry & Jonathan seem to have worked out their differences & my even become friends in the future (even though she says it won't happen). My point is, when people are open & honest, even when it hurts, we can find solutions to what ails us. Same way with HIV/AIDS. Until we stop being politically correct & call people out (gay & straight) for their irresponsible behavior, only then can we stem the tide against this thing.

Cool
November 10 2005, 9:48AM

I have a different impression of Jonathon now.

He was a lot more poised dealing with those old ass biddies than I would have been.

The cliché goes, "Older women are grateful."

Terry should be on her knees kissing this boy's feet for the next ten years. A real niggah woulda strung her ass out and took all her money.

Hell, I woulda, if all she wanted was a good lick'n. Who cain't do that?

Oprah, who has lived 52 years without ever being married seems to want all women in America to not trust men either. There are many marriages with less going for them as that one that has lasted for a life time.

Just think Ashford & Simpson.

Daugur
November 10 2005, 9:55AM

I am surprised at Miss O. First off how can she be so ignorant to the plight of Black men and be so consoling to the white community. After all, she appeared as a therapist for Ellen on her sitcom during the coming our storyline, right?

Her step brother was gay...

Are we to believe that her hairdresser, Andre never talks about being Blk and gay? Oh yea, mabe he does not know much--he is in this months cover of O with his WHITE lover....And where was he anyway--is he only viable when talking about fashion, hair and botox?

O and Terry were very condesending--and O is best at this delievery when its a Blk man on the show.

I just can't beleive O resorted to this sensationalism for ratings (hey ya'll it's November, ratings sweeps month so we are gonna see all kinds of things on O and everywhere else....)

At any rate, I love what O has done as far as getting people to read, but she has one big strike with this one. I am with those of you who say this is fake and a ruse for Terry to sell her current and next book on the Black men and the DL.

Where are all the white women talking about there men adn the DL? The way the media portrays it, you would think it was only in the BLk community.

Watch out all you ST8 Blk women--not only do you need to keep an eye on your man cheating on you with a woman, but also with his best bud!! It's all about creating fear for the Blk woman--awareness should be for at the top of everyone's list...

Daugur
November 10 2005, 9:55AM

I am surprised at Miss O. First off how can she be so ignorant to the plight of Black men and be so consoling to the white community. After all, she appeared as a therapist for Ellen on her sitcom during the coming our storyline, right?

Her step brother was gay...

Are we to believe that her hairdresser, Andre never talks about being Blk and gay? Oh yea, mabe he does not know much--he is in this months cover of O with his WHITE lover....And where was he anyway--is he only viable when talking about fashion, hair and botox?

O and Terry were very condesending--and O is best at this delievery when its a Blk man on the show.

I just can't beleive O resorted to this sensationalism for ratings (hey ya'll it's November, ratings sweeps month so we are gonna see all kinds of things on O and everywhere else....)

At any rate, I love what O has done as far as getting people to read, but she has one big strike with this one. I am with those of you who say this is fake and a ruse for Terry to sell her current and next book on the Black men and the DL.

Where are all the white women talking about there men adn the DL? The way the media portrays it, you would think it was only in the BLk community.

Watch out all you ST8 Blk women--not only do you need to keep an eye on your man cheating on you with a woman, but also with his best bud!! It's all about creating fear for the Blk woman--awareness should be for at the top of everyone's list...

Daugur
November 10 2005, 9:56AM

I am surprised at Miss O. First off how can she be so ignorant to the plight of Black men and be so consoling to the white community. After all, she appeared as a therapist for Ellen on her sitcom during the coming our storyline, right?

Her step brother was gay...

Are we to believe that her hairdresser, Andre never talks about being Blk and gay? Oh yea, mabe he does not know much--he is in this months cover of O with his WHITE lover....And where was he anyway--is he only viable when talking about fashion, hair and botox?

O and Terry were very condesending--and O is best at this delievery when its a Blk man on the show.

I just can't beleive O resorted to this sensationalism for ratings (hey ya'll it's November, ratings sweeps month so we are gonna see all kinds of things on O and everywhere else....)

At any rate, I love what O has done as far as getting people to read, but she has one big strike with this one. I am with those of you who say this is fake and a ruse for Terry to sell her current and next book on the Black men and the DL.

Where are all the white women talking about there men adn the DL? The way the media portrays it, you would think it was only in the BLk community.

Watch out all you ST8 Blk women--not only do you need to keep an eye on your man cheating on you with a woman, but also with his best bud!! It's all about creating fear for the Blk woman--awareness should be for at the top of everyone's list...

Antwoine Williams
November 10 2005, 11:15AM

I have to agree with many of the voices being heard on this board....

The O show on yesterday was a "A Hot Mess".....I was simply not impressed.....it is obvious that O and T have very little insight to the life of a Gay male...and my heart goes out to this man....Many men do not know they are Gay at 20....it's not impossible..some men take years and years before they realize this....I don't think heterosexuals understand the extent of what "coming out" is all about...before you can "come out" to the world, you have to "come out" to yourself..and it is not easy, it has no time limit...it's not done overnight or just in your teenage years....

My final thoughts: T is a immature women and I would go as far as say...she is an embarrasment...and O along with her..on this issue...a 43 year old women admits she slept with a 20 year old on the first day they meet and for five days straight....what kind of respectful women does such a thing..T had more experience with relationships and love than this man...boy at that time...T took advantage of his youth, his innocents and HOW DARE she even make him out to be a bad guy...she allowed this to happen to her...she acted immature from the very beginning...he was young..he didn't know any better...someone should have pulled him to the side and said, "look..don't do this..you're too young".....T caused this on herself....and I have no pity for her...NONE AT ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What a wasted show.....in the end..it appears as if T is still in love with this man....and I imagine she masterbates and fantasies about him every night....and what is up with this "naked bath" and "flowers"......sounds more like two teenage confused college students..rather adults...

Very dissappointed in O...she has loss a little of my respect.....

blacklatina
November 10 2005, 11:40AM

Personally I LOVED the interview. Oprah clearly stated why she was upset with J.P. She said that it would be alright to reveal his preference and it's up to Terry to forgive him for cheating on her....that's between them but to go on TV, give interviews etc about how much money she has and that he feel that he's entitled to it is DEAD WRONG! The only thing that I applaud J.P. for is going on the Oprah show and saying that he really did love her but he realized toward the last 2 years of their marriage, he wanted to be with a man. Bottom line this was not a case of whether someone is homophobic or not, this is about PURE DEE DECEPTION! Please go to the smoking gun website and read their divorce docs and see what she invested in this relationship financially which was not brought up on Oprah and then you'll see why so many people feel that he's not entitled to ANYTHING! I also feel that she is still hurt (understandably) but is willing to help him because she genuinely loves him (notice I said loves not LOVED)

LB
November 10 2005, 11:47AM

SUCH A DOUBLE STANDARD.
I thought Mr plummer did not represent himself well)not prepared). The reason he deserves spousal support -money? Think about this. She ships him in at 20 from Jamaica-he is illegal (cannot work nor school) and still a child. She shacks him up in her house as boy toy and has full financial, social control over this growing boy at the time. She marries the dildo with a pulse at 23. Remember she asked him in Jamica to sleep with her (prelude to boytoydom). She is all he's known from 20 to adulthood. What skills has she, as a grown "loving" partner with some years wisdom on him encouraged him to attain? She just wants the "puppy" to fuck her. That is abuse at the hands of a female. He became dependent and as she states a "puppy" for her to groom and control. You can control,people for so long. He got used to the purks that she lured him with under the conduition that he keeps her rotting coochiw moist every other night. It;s not about his sexuality it is about his maturity. The things I liked at 20 now are not that important to me in my 30's it's called growth. Terry said she did not expect this to last ... so what's the problem? That show was so all over the place, not structured and 3 lashings for Oprah. Did she not do a show several months back with white men that came out to their wives and one wife stayed? Yet O, plays all dizzy and shit! All about the benjamins in the U.S. Don't buy her book, boycott (an insult to our heart strings for money). I think Terry was like, "I don't want to give you my actual money but here is a way for US to both profit". Such tripe! We have been hoodwinked for entertainmemt purposes only.

MrsRenee
November 10 2005, 11:54AM

First let's remember - the book was FINISHED prior to the 2 of them getting "serious".

Second - I thought the interview was very good. Terry and Oprah are coming from a straight woman's perspective so Terry had every right to react the way she did. Who wouldn't react that way? People who have cheated have gotten worse than what JP has gotten.

Her initial response was - "I should bash you in the face..." But then she had a moment - and thought no - I'm not gonna do that. I'm pissed but I still care about him as a person. True - it's f**ked up what you've done - but I still love you as a person and as the man I THOUGHT I married.

I would fight just as she is doing to keep all of my money. Since when does the CHEATER get the rights to the money? She should sue him because he was not faithful to the marriage. I don't care if he cheated with another man or with a woman. Cheating is cheating and the cheater should leave the same way they came into the marriage - BROKE AS HELL!!

He's lucky that she didn't go off like a true black woman - slash his tires, key his car and do a Lorena Bobbit!!

Noah
November 10 2005, 12:41PM

Keith I understand what u r saying but I think we both watched two different shows and i agree to disagree with u on the whole subject.. later this month Oprah will have a hr long segment about the 1st time they knew.. im not sure what day it will show but look out and u will see that Oprah is in fact very understanding and knowledgeable about the issue and furthermore wanting to understand more about being gay. Maybe someone can let us know when this event will be aired.

J-Mo
November 10 2005, 1:09PM

As a gay male watching this show, I had major misgivings even before airtime. My best friend asked me if I had any thought as to why this show was being aired now, and why these two people were going to put themselves in such a public forum regarding their private life... I told him that the cynic in me believed that Terry McMillan had a new project in the pipeline, and that this would be an EXCELLENT hook to get people interested in it.

Sometimes I hate being right. The plug at the end of the show by Oprah for Terry's new book "The Interruption Of Everything" and her disclosure that she is spearheading the movie project made my mouth drop open, but only so far. I suspect that Jonathan was given some kind of financial compensation, either from Terry, or Oprah, or both to appear on the show. I can't imagine why else he would have agreed to walking into such a lioness' den.

I was appalled at Terry's comparison of homosexuality and alcoholism, and even more aghast that Oprah did not challenge the metaphor as being flawed. The rabid audience response to both that and her AIDS comments made me very glad that I wasn't in that studio, and I felt a little fear for Mr. Plummer.

Once again, a major celebrity who should know better gave into stereotyping, and I am disappointed in Oprah for feeding into that. Can all black people sing and dance? No. Do all Asians have extensive martial arts skills? No. Do all gay people know they are gay at age 4? No. That's why it's called a stereotype, applying characteristics of limited experience with a small number of individuals to an entire group of people universally. Oprah's insistence that Jonathan "knew" of his sexuality before he ever married Terry was another brick in the wall of ignorance that surrounds many issues regarding homosexuality.

As for Terry herself, the bitterness is apparent, and I felt that her casual usage of the term "sociopath" in regards to Jonathan was not only unwarranted, but unfair. The true definition of a sociopath is somebody affected with a personality disorder marked by aggressive, violent, antisocial thought and behavior and a lack of remorse or empathy. This is not the same thing as someone who is selfish, or self-involved. I did see Jonathan apologize to Terry, and he definitely showed (at least on the surface) a sense of remorse for the pain he put her through. Oddly enough, TERRY is the one who spoke of violent thoughts (i.e. bashing his face in with the base of a halogen lamp) and never once spoke any words of remorse for her tirades against him. Which one of them more closely fits the true definition of "sociopath"??? Again, Oprah did not speak to that accusation from Terry, nor did the 'doctor' on hand.

As for Jonathan, he seemed woefully underprepared for the grilling he got at the hands of Oprah, I cannot believe he didn't at least think about an answer to her question regarding his pre-nup lawsuit, he HAD to have known that was going to come up, but perhaps that was part of the deal to make things seem more dramatic.

Bottom line to me is, I feel like this was a cheap publicity stunt at the expense of Jonathan Plummer. But that's just my opinion. What the truth is, only God and Oprah know...

-J-Mo :)

David
November 10 2005, 1:33PM

Two quick comments:

Question:How many times does 20 go into 50?
Answer: Too many times and not enough.

It's apparently easier to be fooled by others when one is fooling oneself.

dstxdc
November 10 2005, 1:51PM

I was with you until you said that this man was entitled to her money. Um, no I dont think so. How could the man be any more triflin to think that he deserved some money. So what if her situation inspired a book? SHE was the writer and still had to put the story together not to mention that she brought his behind over here.

Furthermore, I dont think he has any excuse to have lied to this woman. I dont care about society and whatever else he wants to blame. He was wrong - not for being gay - but for lieing and cheating on this woman. WHENEVER he figured it out and wanted to start experimenting, he should have let her know. PERIOD. Anybody who wants to get up on here and say its hard and blah blah I am sorry I do not want to hear it. Lies are lies and adultery is adultery and when you are married there are certain values that you have promised to uphold in that marriage.

I have been dissappointed in Oprah's portrayal of gay black men and that she always want to have it like they are all DL or like her hair dresser. But then too, we have to demand another image. So if you're upset abotu it - write letters, call, complain, demand to see some other realities.

Mark Norris
November 10 2005, 3:02PM

I have a question for the folks that think Jonathan should not get any money from Terry. Would you think the same thing if it was a woman who decieved a wealthy man about her Lesbianism? Do you think she should get compensation because she is used to living a certain lifestyle acquired by the marriage to this wealthy man? Just a question. I think everyone knows how it would have went down had Jonathan been a Female.
Mark

MrsRenee
November 10 2005, 3:30PM

Ok - why is everyone upset that she called the man a sociopath? She called him a lot of other names too and they all ended in FAGGOT.

That's what people do when they're hurt and/or upset. They call people every name under the sun. Why wasn't anyone upset that she called him a faggot? I thought calling someone a faggot was just as bad as calling someone the N word.

I'm quite sure some of us have called someone a name that we may have regretted later. I thought she was very direct, honest and said what was exactly on her mind. She went through a vast range of emotions and in the end - she was still able to look this decietful man in the face and say - ok you've told the truth now what?

To come on national tv and be honest despite what Oprah or any of else thought took a lot on both of their parts.

If JP thought that he was entitled to any money he would have answered the question with no hestitation. He knows deep in his heart that he should not get any money.

I'm still asking - since when does the CHEATER get any money? I don't care about that California law property crap - facts are facts. They were married - he cheated - kick him out and let him leave with what he came with - NOTHING.

MrsRenee
November 10 2005, 3:41PM

To answer your question Mark. I think the result would have been the same. HOWEVER - women are more apt to tell the man the truth BEFORE engaging in something serious. She may tell the man whether he asks or not.

A real woman would walk away and not want anything. She'd rather have her peace of mind and happiness than deal with a crazed man with money.

Qusan
November 10 2005, 4:24PM

I agree that the show was a "hot mess" but I found it more entertaining than anything else and don't think people should take it too seriously either way. They seem like they will be able to work something out in the end and may end up being friends. Terri had a few years of bliss and he got to come to America, go to school, get a business, live in a mansion and "find himself." I think they both got some pretty good things out of it. There is no need to bash her, him or Oprah.

edwin greene
November 10 2005, 6:58PM

Jazzi,

Regarding your question "As far as AIDS being introduced HIV/AIDS to the black community, who do you suppose introduced it?" I suppose what you mean by "black community" is straight black community.

History lesson (one you probably already know): There was a crack "epidemic" in many black communities in the 80s and 90s and some might add the first 5 years of the 21st century.

Untold numbers of black crack addicts used drugs intravenously, sharing dirty needles with each other and having sex. Many of those individuals became HIV positive, infecting their sex partners as well.

Yours is a silly question: who can say exactly when (who and how) the first straight black person became HIV positive and then infected another straight black person. I certainly cannot say and neither can ANYONE else.

We know that as of 2003 less than 2% of HIV positive women claimed they were infected by a bisexual man. That means the rest were infected some other way. I've referred elsewhere to the casual unprotected sexual "promiscuity" among many in the straight black community, which no one (certainly not straight black people) wants to talk about. Need I say more?

Maybe someone will come along one day and write a book like Randy Shilts' "And the Band Played On" from a black prospective. This has not happened yet and maybe never will. Until it does, all we're doing is speculating and little else.

mykal
November 10 2005, 7:29PM

The show was a mess. Plummer is hardly an eloquent spokesperson for the Black Gay and/or Lesbian community (then again, are any of us?)Terry should be asking herself why she didn't know when they first met--its called denial!!!! Although I am not a frequent Oprah viewer, I agree w/ the assessment that this was the most disappointing Oprah since DL King. At least on that episode, Phil Wilson was there to share some enlightenment with the viewing public. UGHHHHHH!

Bobby
November 10 2005, 8:30PM

I can't tell you how disappointed I was in Oprah. You would think that with all of the shows she's done and all of the people she's talked to and all of the experts she's worked with she'd be more fair and understanding. Instead, she allowed Terry's incredibly homophobic and misinformed tirades and accusations to go unchallenged. So now, millions of people around the world, who already have a skewed and unhealthy perception of homosexuals, have had their pathological hatred validated.

For all the good that Oprah does, it seems that whenever she has Black gay men on her show, she's incredibly vicious and unsympathetic and willing to allow exaggerations and untruths to stand as fact. She's helping to perpetuate awful stereotypes about us. Her show is becoming what it started out as: A Jerry Springer-type circus. And I am so, SO very disappointed.

Sincere
November 11 2005, 12:07AM

First off I want to say besides the fact that this was a gay man and his str8 woman, the fact still remains HE CHEATED! IF you paid attention to her comments, she doesn't have a problem with him being gay or have any problems with gay people. She had a problem with the nigga lieing to her saying he was str8 and him cheating. Thats a problem anybody would have in a relationship. If you lie about it and you got caught cheating of course they gon get mad, duh! Where the hell are yo morals at? Everybody wants to always point the blame when somebody says something about gay people, so freaking what! You gay, you gay. I knew I liked hitting fellas from behind when I was in high school but I ain't never lied to nobody about it. I kept it to myself. Get off the fact Terri was mad at him and get on the subject. HE CHEATED! HE LIED ABOUT BEING GAY! All you gay people should know that if you have this certain feelin for another man, no matter how you put it, you gay. Get off Oprah cause Oprah defended him and she defended Terri. If you queens wasn't so quick to say she homophobic yo dumb ass would know and heard what she said. If she was so homophobic why did she spend the night with the man. Why did she say that she hopes he treat his boyfriend better than he treated her. Some of y'all need to listen before you open ya dumb ass mouth and yes I heard the conversation she left on his phone and I saw clips on the divorce papers, wouldn't you go the f*ck off if you so called husband cheated on you regardless who its with? I left messages calling my no good nigga a F8gg0t and I know I'm gay. But because I'm gay that make it acceptable, get the f*ck outta here. Quit tryin to make yo personal issues everybody else's issue cause somebody called you out yo name and if they didn't personally say your name and called you that, why are you even worried about THEIR PROBLEMS? Thats whats wrong with everybody, you too damn nosey and think you know everything. Always got something to say but too busy running off at the mouth, they can't see they own problems. I don't like people LIKE THAT!

blacklatina
November 11 2005, 12:44AM

Why all the disappointment in OPRAH? She usually asks the questions that WE want the answers to. ...and why is it that everytime a GAY MAN gets on television and embarrasses HIMSELF, gay men start going off? J.L. King and Jonathan Plummer ONLY REPRESENT THEMSELVES...NOT YOU!!!!...so please stop saying that. It's getting really tired. I personally was not embarrassed when Lil Kim perjured herself. I certainly didn't say, "She just set us back 500 years" because she represented herself, not me. STOP LETTING OTHERS DEFINE WHO YOU ARE! Stop riding the coat tails of the negatives and find that positive role model; if you're looking for someone to latch onto....KEITH IS A GOOD PERSON TO START WITH :-)

When I first heard that J.P. was gonna be on a show with Terry McMillan, I thought OKAY, now Oprah usualy has classy shows with meaningful story lines....honestly, I didn't know what to expect b/c I've heard Terry interviews and she tells it like it is so I said, OKAY, this should be interesting. I'd have to say that I was thoroughly impressed--BRAVO OPRAH. The only person who was not prepared at all was J.P. I don't think that he represented the gay community at all so for all who thought that he did, THAT'S REALLY SAD! He came across as very confused and bewildered to me. In the end, it was all about deception and not homosexuality.

If my partner came home one day and said that she thought that she was heterosexual (after never being w/a man), I would have made a similar analogy as Terry. I don't know if I would have used alcohol but I would have definitely asked the question, "How do u know that and have u already slept w/a man to put our 6 year relationship on the line by bringing this to me?" If she was 100% sure after my line of questioning (he called it badgering), I would have been 100% sure that she cheated. It's all in presentation and truth. Now if he'd said, "Terry, I think I'm starting to have feelings for other men", after 4 years into it, that would have been different (if he had not cheated) but he not only lied to her but on national t.v. and said that he did not cheat but he lied to all of us--the viewers. Now let's give him the benefit of the doubt for a hot second...he said that he lied to protect Terry's feelings right. Okay, so why lie to Oprah? She's not phucking him....excuse my french! (and the divorce proceedings are over, right...so why keep up this lie?) He did so much double talk that I had no choice but to side w/Terry. Bottom line: he cheated, put her life at risk of having a sexually transmitted disease and then tried to take her to the cleaners...all in the name of LOVE! If he REALLY loved her, he would have told her 2 years prior to this mess and given her the opportunity to say whether she wanted to accept it or not (like Star Jones) but to sneak around and have an adulterous affair is PLAIN OLE WRONG. Terry is not a damned fool by any stretch of the imagination...she was a single mother b4 she met him (and alreay established might i add) and had probably been down that 'love don't live here anymore' road before so I'm glad that she made him sign a pre-nup. She was protecting the interest of her and her son....GOOD FOR YOU TERRY! As for Mr. Plummer, she's given you a taste of the good life...you're in a country where it's up to YOU to make it happen. In my opinion, he's just like Eric Benet...a big ole FOOL!

jazzi
November 11 2005, 8:55AM

BLACKLATINA, YOU SO NAILED IT!!! It seems when a gay person acts irresponsibly or does something stupid, other gays feel the need to rush to that persons defense. We try to analyze, justify, & defend their behavior. It's like right or wrong, don't critique the gays. A totally ass backwards way of thinking.

I was down with him when I first heard that he came out to Terry. I'm thinking "Wow, Terry must be devastated but she's strong & she's smart. It'll take a minute but she'll pull through." Then I heard he was trying to sue her for money & I was like WHAT?! This guy finally comes out & he wants to get paid? What's so special about his coming out that he should get paid? That's wrong. No two ways about it.

This guy doesn't represent me or any other gay person. He reps himself & not to well at that! I feel no need to clean up or justify his "hot mess". I'm not going to bash Oprah because she nailed him on her show & he couldn't hold his own. Oprah is a smart woman & if you're in the hot seat, you better be ready to bring it. He couldn't. He had the chance to state his case & he blew it. He looks bad for that, not me.

cool
November 11 2005, 10:06AM

Jazzi,

You've never been divorced, obviously. If it's about one thing, it's money.

When two people get married everything they have, especially in California, is shared. Cali is a Community Property state. And marriage has always been about property rights. They were together for eleven years and married for seven.

If the male female situation was reversed she would automatically get HALF of everything he made while they were together.

Why should he be treated any differently because he is a man, or because he is gay?

He should not have cheated on her, but how do we know she didn't cheat on him too. They didn't drill her like that.

Secondly, we all have rights to our life's story. Hollywood buys and sells rights all of the time. Oprah paid Terry for the 'rights' to her story.

His story inspired Terry's very profitable book and saved her career. Are you saying he's not entitled to profit from the rights to his own story?

If nothing else he should be able to charge her for eleven years of escort and gigolo service. Cause she was gonna have to pay somebody to lick that old ass coochee.

Women are good at saying, "this ass ain't free." They go for the dollars 99% of the time.

Good dyck aint free either.

And, according to Terry, it was good dyck.

cool
November 11 2005, 10:32AM

Sincere,

Get off it.

Any love is a gamble. We win some we lose some.

The man was twenty when a 43 years old mother of a teenage boy hit him up for sex and a good time.

At twenty, or 14, or ten, the average male does not know his same sex attractions are different from other boys, or if they will last a lifetime.

He so much as said this. And presented with the opportunity to 'overcome' what ever same-sex feelings he had, while living in an oppressive culture, he did what EVERYONE would have done.

I feel sorry for him. He tried very hard to be what his world told him he should be. All he knew was to be str8, or die. Homosexual was not an option. Being who he is was not an option. And she took advantage of that.

Did you see that wedding shot? Who was the bride there. He looked so gay anyone would have known.

She didn't care, all she knew was her needs were being met. Like she said, he was not a person, but an object, a "puppy." Something to have that pleased her until its batteries ran out. Then IT was to be discarded. kicked aside. But, she made sure she got that pre-nup, so the kicking aside would not be too difficult.

I feel sorry for the dude. She used him big time. But, that's the way the real world is. Take what you can get, from who you can get it from. Quickly.

Do you like being used?

cool
November 11 2005, 10:52AM

And because I'm on a roll this morning.

On Oprah's performance.

I am soooooo sick of everyone putting a gay guy through interrogation as if being homosexual is a brand new phenomena.

Gays are not from Mars. Oprah should stop acting like it. The first story told in the bible after Adam and Eve is a homosexual one. Sodom and Gomorrah was about a bunch of married men who got together to have sex with each other. Wow!!!!

Dudes do'n dudes aint new. It's been around forever. It will be around forever.

That one single gay dude is forced to explain his feelings, behaviors, desires is to me insulting. Women are not asked why they are women. Men are asked why they are men.

I'm inclined to tell folks, "Look, I'm not the first bisexual dude you've met so stop acting like I'm from another planet. Get over it."

By the time we reach adulthood, over half the folks who brush passed us in any capacity has had some degree of a homosexual encounter.

Gays are not Martians, Oprah.

Fat people are.

Jeff
November 11 2005, 11:57AM

Alot of good comments on this subject. I have to say, as others here have already stated, if the roles were reversed gender-wise, there wouldn't even be a discussion. There are certainly double standards, and I just don't think there would be this debate. No one want to admit that.

Terence C.
November 11 2005, 11:59AM

Yesterday, while visiting a friend, I watched "The Oprah Show" with Terry McMillan and her ex-husband, Jonathan Plummer. I am a fan of Oprah's but I can count the number of shows I have seen on one hand in the last few years. The show with Terry and Jonathan was exceptional for a number of reasons. One, Oprah was involved in the subject mater, some shows she seems to be "going through the paces". Two, Terry McMillan is dynamic, articulate and is as interesting to listen too as she is to watch (her body language spoke volumes). Three, it was the classic confrontation, bitter, jilted ex wife questions ex husband (now, admittedly, gay) about his motivations. One could sense so many things watching the show. Terry is (was) angry and hurt but one could see she (still) love the man. In a recent interview, Mc Millan described her relationship with Jonathan as one "...where her atoms were rearranged and sent into a new transcendental orbit"... Aint that a mouthful. Jonathan proclaimed he always loved Terry and always will... that he didn’t know he was gay when he married her and that he didn’t marry her to gain his US citizenship or to get “his paws” on her wealth. Further, he claimed he never had homosexual thoughts/feelings until the last two years of their marriage (he was 24 at the time, 20 when he met McMillan). When he because aware of those thoughts/feelings, he decided to explore his curiosity without telling his wife beforehand. One later learns, that Jonathan cheated during the marriage (I guess while explore his curiosity)...and Terry said the infidelity was worse than the lie about his sexuality. She said his curiosity and infidelity put her health at risk. Oprah asked Jonathan, point blank, if he had engaged in extramarital affairs with men …with or without a condom…while married. Jonathan skated around the question (for what seemed liked an eternity and admitted yes.

I wondered while watching, what were other African American women thinking. I wonder what other Gay African American men thought. I watched the show and I am not sure about Jonathan or why he married Terry. Jonathan has a certain charm, a certain boyish appeal. He seems like the type one would want to nurture, protect, guide, and love. But he is not the type you fly from Jamaica after a five day love affair to set up house in the suburbs of San Francisco. San Francisco, the Gay Capitol of the US. Oprah asked Terry if she thought there were “signs” that could have warned her Jonathan might be bisexual or gay. Terry responded… “Jonathan is a bit effeminate, he isn’t the most masculine man, but being an effeminate male doesn’t make you gay”… Love that line. I must admit Jonathan made me cringe a bit… his clothing, his overly arched brows, his glossy lips, his posture…his overall presentation was aesthetically gay. I know this comment when get me in trouble but I don’t hold that bias. I looked at him and thought someone must have told him to look as gay as possible.

Also in the show, one learns Jonathan and Terry shared a bath in her extra large tub the night before the show. Each says nothing but the bath occurred. What is that about?

Can a bisexual or gay man and a straight woman have a lasting and monogamous relationship?

At 20 years old, does a person fully and completely know themselves sexually?

If a person cheated with a person of a different gender could you forgive them?

cmoney
November 11 2005, 12:25PM

Terry McMillan is anti-gay. Many marriages go through bouts of infidelity but don't end in divorce. They work it out. Her problem is that Jonathan was sleeping with another man and that he was trying to get "her money". She made that quite clear. She got particularly nasty when the issue of sleeping with another man or getting her money came up. Also, accusations made in divorce pleadings are notoriously outlandish and false and are not admissible as evidence--everybody lies in a divorce when money is involved. After watching her histrionics, I think McMillan could make any man gay!! And Cool, you are 100% right about those Martians!

Wil
November 11 2005, 6:01PM

I can sympathize with Jonathan. At such a young age thinking about a relationship with another man is out of the question because you don't see any positive gay role models. So you don't allow yourself the option of sex or anything else with another man. He stayed in the closet. And from Terry's point, maybe she saw Jonathan's feminity, but she was receiving sexual pleasure from him and it was good, then she simply but the thought of homosexuality out of her mind. There were a lot of misstatements about gay people and the misrepresentation of gays. Unfortunately, this show did nothing to promote an honest discussion about homophobia not only in this country but the world.

Laura
November 11 2005, 7:29PM

they both get what they deserve...malice, resentment, and misery. that's all marriage is, anyway.

Michelle
November 11 2005, 7:42PM

Last week Keith took exception to Sheryl Swoopes saying 'she wasn't born that way', but with this week Plummer experiences an late epiphany and no harm no foul. It seems that women are not the only ones taking sides. So is sexuality innate or not?

Marcy
November 11 2005, 8:12PM

Johnathan used to be the grommer for my two dogs. He was always charming and full of nice things to say about his wife. It is ashame that the marriage has come to this, what a pitty for their children. What's even more ashame is the media attention this has gained. I always suspected early on that Johnathan was gay, years before this became public. I don't know why Terri didn't recognize this, or perhaps she did and didn't want to wish it was true. These are two extremely gifted people. There is no win here and there is no victory. It's just divorce and time to move on.....

chicago_angel
November 11 2005, 11:20PM

yea she bitter! i would be to if i commited to someone and they changed over night and lied or whatever! i dont care what anyone says, just because he grew up in jamaica doesnt mean he didnt have homo feelings, he didnt act on them then, but that doesnt prove he didnt have them! people act like terry is supposed to be all hunky doory like nothing happened and jp is so innocent!

James Simpson
November 12 2005, 2:46PM

Look Terry McMillian flat out USED Johnathan and he DESERVES some dough..Simple as that..Terry is a mean spirited bitch..She basically stole this young man..took him away from his family in Jamaica..She writes a novel and box office hit movie..ABOUT their relationship..and he's supposed to get NOTHING...That's NOT FAIR...
She used Johnathan for SEX..she treated this young man as a SEX OBJECT...He deserves some dough..and anyhow due to California LAW he's going to get some MONEY...

James Simpson
November 12 2005, 11:25PM

I definitely feel Oprah and Terry ganged up on Johnathan I felt sorry for the guy. Look at Terry the woman just isn't attractive..why would any guy have sex with that? I mean come on..John wanted to get out of Jamaica and poverty I can't blame the guy. But Terry used him and exploited this young man for SEX..and MONEY..she used him treating him like a sex object and parading him on talk show circuit. Oprah is a man hating lesbian..that's for sure...

LH
November 12 2005, 11:33PM

EVERYONE NEEDS TO SCROLL DOWN TO MICHELLE'S STATEMENT. IT IS DEFINITELY QUITE VALID.

sttropezbutler
November 13 2005, 9:11AM

Can we mention that O had a vested interest in this bullshit show. She bought the film rights to Ms. McMillan's latest opus. Please. This was Jerry Springer dressed up for soccer moms.

STB

ImSoN2U
November 13 2005, 10:52AM

Last night, a few friends of mine and I sat around the house and viewed last week's episode of Oprah (courtesy of DVR, lol). I was not amused about the subject piece being centered on author Terry McMillan and her girlfriend for an ex-husband. The entire hour was filled with Jonathan having to explain his situation, Terry's snide remarks and harsh glances. Basically, Oprah and Terry spent the show ganging up on Jonathan. He looked helpess but, at the same time, he also made a fool out of himself.

When Terry came to Baltimore for a book signing two months ago or so, she mentioned that she would be appearing on Oprah's show and would deal with her situation on television in a dignified manner. As you can see, dignified she was not. I lost so much respect for the both of them. Of course, it was f**ked up what Jonathan did to her b/c no woman deserves that kinda of embarassment but they could've handle the issue properly.

Jon Brown
November 14 2005, 1:39AM

I say fuck Jonathan!!!! That punk ass son of a bitch got just what he deserved for faking the funk!!!!! It amazes me how you homosexuals can rally around a motha-fukin lier, just becasue the person is a faggot! Get real!

missy
November 14 2005, 6:58AM

BLACKLATINA, you hit the nail on the head with your comments. It's amazing to me how people will defend what's DEAD WRONG. Jonathan Plummer is wrong and doesn't deserve anymore of her hard earned money. She bought him a grooming business, paid for his education and showed him a life better than most of us will ever know. What else does he need? He's in a country where he can make it happen...so do it! I agree with you 100%

Nathans
November 14 2005, 8:18AM

Sad Sad Sad... the cynic in me wants to say that black women get what they deserved i.e increasing HIV infection, single parenthood, abusive relationships etc. But I love people and I respect people and I feel pity for women like TM and black latina etc who are so blinkered in their thinking.

FYI the vast majority of men do have same sex attractions especially in their teenage years...this does not mean that they are gay. There are also men who are bisexual. So based on some of the statmenets on here if black women decide to eliminate evryone man that has had a homosexual attraction and tells them so how many men will be around??

Jamica is not the USA and TM should have known that. Plus women like her are looking to buy men which is what she did! Why be upset whne the little boy grows up.

Such women need to look at themselves and see how their attitudes are contributing to the DL

byron
November 14 2005, 9:27AM

@Nathans - Spoken like a true man who hates women. You give gay men a bad name. Check yourself.

blacklatina
November 14 2005, 9:35AM

What's wrong Nathans, am I getting too much attention? This is a message board and we're all entitled to our opinions, including you. There are vast differences between myself and Ms. McMillan....I am 100% gay and she is NOT, I am of mixed heritage and as far as I know she is NOT, she is a single parent, I am NOT and we are in totally different professions...now what I DO have in common with Ms. McMillan like the rest of the people on this message board is that we are all HUMAN and subject to hurt and pain at the hands of liars (notice I didn't say homosexuals)...if you haven't been hurt just keep living! I usually don't speak to such ignorance as 'the cynic' in you but let me stoop down for a moment and address 'the cynic' in you.

No one, not even you, deserves to be lied to and made a complete fool out of in private or on national t.v. WHERE IS YOUR COMPASSION????? You're too busy trying to put me and Ms. McMillan in the same boat to be concerned with the real issue....lying and deceit....come on now, let's not get off the subject here! Please don't feel pity for me because I'm not over here having a pity-party. If and when I ever do have a pity party, I'll send you a personal invitation. I'm quite sure that if your significant other humilated you, you'd be somewhere licking your wounds too and would probably be looking for a public forum to do it in so save the self-righteousness for another forum. Comments like yours (trying to attack me) is the reason why the outside world thinks that there is so much confusion and dissension within the gay community in the first place. RE-READ why I 'had no choice but to side with Ms. McMillan'. Mr. Plummer was not prepared and could not answer the simple question... why he deserved any of her money? Now if that had been me, I would have named a whole host of reasons why I deserved half BUT HE DIDN'T. Just like this message board, Oprah provided a forum...what's wrong with that? Even Keith stated his opinions on this message board for all of us to vent and rightfully so, it's HIS WEBSITE. That's why it's called the Oprah show and keithboykin.com.

On another note, Why are u so bent on dogging out black women who are single parents and infected with HIV, I thought this msg board was about Terry and Jonathan...Where'd that come from? I did not voice my opinion to get into a msgboard cat fight w/anyone. I viewed the show just like you did and drew a conclusion based on what I heard and my own personal research (go the smoking gun website and read their court papers). My view would be the exact same if the shoe were on the other foot. zeusmoon@yahoo.com, when you have something substantial to discuss, hit me up but until then, reserve your comments for the Disney Channel b/c it carries no weight or substance here.

blacklatina
November 14 2005, 9:36AM

What's wrong Nathans, am I getting too much attention? This is a message board and we're all entitled to our opinions, including you. There are vast differences between myself and Ms. McMillan....I am 100% gay and she is NOT, I am of mixed heritage and as far as I know she is NOT, she is a single parent, I am NOT and we are in totally different professions...now what I DO have in common with Ms. McMillan like the rest of the people on this message board is that we are all HUMAN and subject to hurt and pain at the hands of liars (notice I didn't say homosexuals)...if you haven't been hurt just keep living! I usually don't speak to such ignorance as 'the cynic' in you but let me stoop down for a moment and address 'the cynic' in you.

No one, not even you, deserves to be lied to and made a complete fool out of in private or on national t.v. WHERE IS YOUR COMPASSION????? You're too busy trying to put me and Ms. McMillan in the same boat to be concerned with the real issue....lying and deceit....come on now, let's not get off the subject here! Please don't feel pity for me because I'm not over here having a pity-party. If and when I ever do have a pity party, I'll send you a personal invitation. I'm quite sure that if your significant other humilated you, you'd be somewhere licking your wounds too and would probably be looking for a public forum to do it in so save the self-righteousness for another forum. Comments like yours (trying to attack me) is the reason why the outside world thinks that there is so much confusion and dissension within the gay community in the first place. RE-READ why I 'had no choice but to side with Ms. McMillan'. Mr. Plummer was not prepared and could not answer the simple question... why he deserved any of her money? Now if that had been me, I would have named a whole host of reasons why I deserved half BUT HE DIDN'T. Just like this message board, Oprah provided a forum...what's wrong with that? Even Keith stated his opinions on this message board for all of us to vent and rightfully so, it's HIS WEBSITE. That's why it's called the Oprah show and keithboykin.com.

On another note, Why are u so bent on dogging out black women who are single parents and infected with HIV, I thought this msg board was about Terry and Jonathan...Where'd that come from? I did not voice my opinion to get into a msgboard cat fight w/anyone. I viewed the show just like you did and drew a conclusion based on what I heard and my own personal research (go the smoking gun website and read their court papers). My view would be the exact same if the shoe were on the other foot. zeusmoon@yahoo.com, when you have something substantial to discuss, hit me up but until then, reserve your comments for the Disney Channel b/c it carries no weight or substance here.

missy
November 14 2005, 9:46AM

Oh my goodness...BLACKLATINA, I am over here falling out laughing. Nathans sound like a very angry black man as byron pointed out. ...and how did he get on the subject of black women, single parenting and HIV? What a damned hot mess....He sounds like he's angry that no one co-signed about his dumb azz comment. He really needs to grow up and re-read what the MASSES had to say on this message board. For the most part, people are saying that this is about deception not homosexuality. It's obvious that she's still in love with him and his preference has nothing to do with it. Let me take it another step further. Who in their right mind would step into a lioness' den without getting paid to do it. I'll bet he was compensated in some way to have agreed to do this. Shit, she bought him a grooming business, paid for his education and didn't embarrass him about he $1200.00 she was ordered to pay him a month until their case went to trial (y'all didn't know that did ya). Nathans just seemed like he shot first b4 asking questions....now that's SAD SAD SAD SAD.....

Cool
November 14 2005, 11:05AM

Nathans:

Why is it that the truth hurts so many people.

Everything you said is true. It's not cynical. Too many black women want to blame everyone else for what they get in life. TM asked for everything she got. You are right. It ain't about hating women, it's facing facts.

It has become un-PC to point out obvious flaws in the collective black female character. Only someone who deals with them on the regular know that ain't perfect.

Martin
November 14 2005, 3:15PM

It seems that we've gotten off the topic. Blacklatina, I heard you loud and clear and as a gay man, I totally agree with you. As for Nathans,I don't think that it was fair to do what others have done to so many of our black women, bash them. All of us either have mothers, sisters, aunts etc in our lives that help shape and mold who we are. Single parenting doesn't equal poor parenting. What if someone you loved got infected with the virus, would you make such a rash statement? It wasn't even necessary. Why all the anger and hostility? We already saw enough of that on Oprah. We are all here to voice our opinions so why come at Blacklatina like that just because her views didn't mirror yours. We all have our opinions, she stated hers just like so many others and did not personally attack anyone. I just think that if we're gonna make comments, it should be about he story line and not about each other.

Nathans
November 14 2005, 3:42PM

Byron "@Nathans - Spoken like a true man who hates women. You give gay men a bad name. Check yourself."
Spoken like an illiterate who cannot read! Don't check yourself just go get an education.

Where are you reading that I hate women. HIV is caused by the exchange of body fluids. If you are woman and you are unsure of the HIV status of your partner either don't have sex with him,
have him tested or use a condom. If you as a woman become infected, what does that have to do with gay men .

Secondly are gay men the only men that lie? that deceive black women?

Why should you feel compassion for TM but none for Jonathan? Why are black men ( black gay men) less deserving of compassion? Clearly TM was in the drivers seat from the get go in this relationship both in terms of her intellect and maturity? Can't she take responsibility for the choices she made? She decided to go to jamaica, she decided to buy this young jamaican boy, she decided that he WAS OLD enough to know his sexual orientation and now I am supposed to blame him for this situation.

And what do you know about what it is like to grow up in Jamaica???

After all the beating he took from TM and OW why are suprised he could not respond? Come on the whole show had an anti-blackgaymale slant...who would be comfortable with that.

I made reference to single parenting/HIV and other things because all of them require choices, decisions to be made by the two people involved yet it seems that alot of people want to blame the men like TM and OW

Maz
November 14 2005, 4:19PM

Nathans...you speak the truth.

It's interesting how people are accusing Nathans of hating women etc. but attack his "opinion" with such hate and venom.

We can love and appreciate the plight of the black woman. We support them, and respect them for what they endure in this society. But they do have to be held accountable too.

Laura
November 14 2005, 5:28PM

"It has become un-PC to point out obvious flaws in the collective black female character."

A-HAHAHAhahahahahahahahaha

wtf is "the collective black female character"?

when in doubt, make shit up. lol

Laura
November 14 2005, 5:30PM

"It's interesting how people are accusing Nathans of hating women etc. but attack his "opinion" with such hate and venom."

attack us with hate and venom, get attacked right back. it's called "equality". get used to it.

Mikey--He likes it
November 14 2005, 10:31PM

If you think homophobia is bad here then multiply that by 100 and you will realize what it's like for those gays in Jamaica. It is simply not tolerated there. You could lose YOUR LIFE!! So it's not hard to believe that Mr Plummer was confused or perhaps hiding, internalizing, or repressing his orientation to avoid being persecuted. Terry's big mistake, to me, was bringing Jonathan back home with her. She is a successful author couldn't she find a mate here in the US? There are plenty of young bucks here more than willing to oblige her appetite. And for someone who's written numerous books on relationships and dating to not notice that Jonathan was just a little too "happy" is one of the colossal denial jobs of the century. In fact, the whole show just reeked of publicity stunt to me given the fact that Miss Winfrey has purchased the rights to Terry's new book. Maybe Terry is working on a sequel to HOW STELLA GOT HER GROOVE BACK, and it's called HOW STELLA GOT HER GROOVE BACK-AGAIN. The follow up will be about how she couldn't tell Oprah was a lesbian after she invited Terry back to her dressing room right after the show and then tried to lick that pussy apart!!