Earning The Right to Complain

Bobby Brown
October 18 2005, 12:24AM

Once again your gift shines through! Damn Keith you are on FIRE and I'm loving every minute of it. I'm very interested in getting involved with the NBJC. In the meantime, I'll continue to make a difference within my network of personal and professional network. Thanks again for inspiring me to be bigger!

Ras James
October 18 2005, 1:00AM

And what of those of us who have the audacity to come out as Same Gender Loving Brothers and Sisters? Are we welcome in your campaign? Or shall we be tarred ad feathered by your krew, Brother?

Andrew Caldwell
October 18 2005, 1:32AM

Amen, Keith. It's about time that everyone, same or different gender-loving alike, realize that the people in power are making the personal political. The only way to fight back is to reverse the polarity and make the political personal. Is it easy? No. But it's harder and harder for "them" to have "us" when "they" realize how many happen to be close to (if not one of) "them."

Good luck in the NBJC campaign.

Andrew in Seattle

Laura
October 18 2005, 2:26AM

"And what of those of us who have the audacity to come out as Same Gender Loving Brothers and Sisters? Are we welcome in your campaign? Or shall we be tarred ad feathered by your krew, Brother?"

lol some "audacity". wtf does it matter what nomenclature you use, the question always is, do you or don't you have same sex.

last i heard, gay bashers don't stop to ask "gee, hm, now tell us, do you identify as SGL or queer or bi-curious or gay" before they beat your brains in. they use the same bat regardless of terminology.

Kola Boof
October 18 2005, 4:01AM

"Same Gender Loving Brothers and Sisters"

Why do you have to make everything into a MUSICAL production?

"Same Gender Loving Brothers and Sisters"

That's an AWFUL title. Too long---too vague.

No backbone to it.

________________

And I'm certain that Keith has no problem with any Gays and Lesbians ANYWHERE being a part of his family.

But it's not his fault you guys screwed up your title.

"Same Gender loving Blah, blah, blah"

That title stinks. Seriously.

KOLA

jaymillionaire
October 18 2005, 6:23AM

If they don't come out of the closet, you'll push 'em, right Keith?

cmoney
October 18 2005, 7:41AM

Keep on pushin' Bro!! Remember, Sojourner Truth had to use a shotgun to get some slaves to leave the plantation and run to freedom. Sometime we get so caught up in our oppression that we start to accept it as the way things should be. And who gives a flying F@#K what you call yourself?! Gay. SGL. Queen. Be proud of who you are. Be who you are. Be a role model.

taylor Siluwé
October 18 2005, 11:05AM

Actually, Kola ...

SGL is quite concise.

Ras James, and possibly you, seem to be letting the semantics game get in the way. Silly really, considering no matter what we call 'ourselves', they still use the 'F' word the minute we leave the room.

Not to sound like the Sopranos, but I think there needs to be a sit down between BMX and NBJC ... a meeting that wouldn't end until some consensus was set.

If we can't present a united front, then the enemy doesn't even need to fight.

cody
October 18 2005, 11:13AM

Bullshty!!

And if you ban me from your site so be it.

Are you saying that the only people who have the right to complain about injustice and inequality are those who are gay, or gay and OUT?

That, again, is ludicrous.

Or is this a way of circling up your wagons and isolating yourself only with the minions who worship “The Emperor” and dare not view the world in ways he does not deem appropriate?

I don’t have a thing to prove to anyone. Your post today sounds like the rantings of a mad man.

Inequality is wrong. Injustice is wrong. You don’t need to be gay, and gay and ‘OUT’ (what ever tf that means in your book) to call a MFN spade a spade.

If you want me to stand with you and support you in your struggles, I will do that.

If you want me to worship you and live the life you do, PEACE, my brotha!

Javier
October 18 2005, 12:03PM

Cody - I couldn't have said it better! Of course you'll be banished from this site (as I was) for dissenting. Mr. Boykin get a fuvkin job and stop trying to be the black gay spokesperson. You are completely out of touch with the everyday joe's just trying to make ends meet. You completely lost me back when you were ranting and raving about gay marriage. Most black gays ain't thinking about no damn marriage which just goes to show how out of touch you are.

Ian Johnson
October 18 2005, 12:35PM

Be a man for once in your life brothers and come out.
It takes a MAN to say, " I don't care I'm gonna be me and I don't care who likes it or not"

Black People will never respect us until we respect ourselves and nobody respects a coward. and no one respects weakness.

Keith Boykin is a brilliant Genuis!

cody
October 18 2005, 12:53PM

Ian, you are right. No one respects a coward and I too say be a man about who you are.

I am me and live my life on my terms, no one else’s.

Javier. The Gay marriage issue is important because It's more than hook'n up with someone for life. It's about equal rights and equal treatment under the law.

It's about being a full citizen in a pluralistic democracy. It's about equal meaning equal.

No man is better than any other.

It's about not living under the tyranny of religious zealots and the mentally deluded. A stand for equal marriage rights is a stand for equality period.

I don't waiver in my beliefs. We all should be able to live the life we choose without having others dictate to us how to do it. Not from the right, or from the left.

I stood with on of Gay Marriage. We differ of this outting shyt.

Jeff
October 18 2005, 1:21PM

All Keith is saying is that if you don't like something, then go out and be a leader yourself and do something about instead of going off on this tyranny. I mean are all of you that much in touch with what's going on? I mean really. I tell you black folks are something else. They throw shit at you then kick you for stinkin'.

Kenneth Winfrey
October 18 2005, 1:53PM

I also encourage people to come out (on your own volition) to experience empowerment. You can't defend niether me or my rights nor you or your rights if you aren't willing to let the world know who you are too. Eventually, you will be challenged on your own credibility and questioned about your character--or live in fear. If you're not out, you're too busy trying to hide your own secret to really be helpful to anyone else. If people don't know how many gay people they are; or that their own sons, daughters, brothers, sisters, cousins, and friends are gay, they are more likely to become hateful homophobes who will believe the untruths the media and the religious right perpetuate about us.

I would feel the same sense of being "used" if a Black person who could pass for white expected me to take risks on their behalf. When you have something to hide, you can't return the favor. Of course, if you are not out, I wouldn't treat you any less than a human being. Nor would I "out" you. I don't support "outing" because it only puts people in situations for which they are not prepared...

As stated here, "..you don’t have to come out. But if you don’t come out, then don’t complain." On this I agree with the author wholeheartedly. I too would rather not hear the complaints of anyone who isn't willing to stand up for change on their own behalf. Likewise, if you don't vote, you can't complain. Americans have become a nation of complainers, but not "doers," and few of us are actually willing to take real action. We constantly blame politicians and so-called community leaders for everything, and then criticize them when they turn out to be humans with flaws when we should have taken control for our own lives in the first place. If you don't vote, make your opinions known, or have enough leadership skills to effect change, then you have done nothing but run your mouth (or typed in a blog).

Marlon
October 18 2005, 2:14PM

HELL YEAH!! Now- that’s what what I'm talking about!! Come Out MF or shut the F*** up!! All that squawking (non-constructive criticism)is BS! Nevertheless, we still gotta educate those squawkers; someday they too will be Free.

Truly, I encourage all to embark upon the journey toward self-awareness(coming out) as a gay/sgl individual. The result is pure self-empowerment and liberating. Take the steps toward true enlightenment.

cody
October 18 2005, 2:33PM

Kenneth;

There is absolutely nothing inherently brave about coming OUT. Usually the person stepping OUT is the last one he knows to admit he's gay.

A lot of folks who are IN ain't. It's almost comical the guys walking around thinking people don't know what they are trying to hide. I know some stone cold swishes who would swear folks don't know they are gay. Puleeze!

My beef is, if I told you that in all reality I'm a str8 man who happen to believe in equality would my coming OUT as str8 lessen my commitment to your cause or my understanding of your plight?

I'm not talking about cowardice. Those folks ain't fighting on anyone's behalf.

I'm saying what difference should it make to you what I do, or don't do with my dick if we are in battle against the same foe.

There is much more to this come OUT cry than meets the eye. I believe it's a totally self-serving, salacious appeal designed to force folks to conform. It's no more different that what the religious right is doing. Either my way or the wrong way.

I, for one, hide nothing about my life. But acceptance be damn, I don't conform to popular opinion or the current prevailing tide.

Dee
October 18 2005, 3:05PM

I read Kieth's words by pageoneq.Although I'm not black I do agree with his comment about coming out and complaining.
How many people complain about how our politicians are running our government yet don't vote.If one doesn't speak up how can one expect others to listen.
Since coming out in Aug."04 I've tried to spread the word about Love,Compassion and Tolerance for every human being regardless of who they are.
The only way equality will come about is by everyone standing out and demand the same RIGHTS and FREEDOMS everyone else expects in this FREE NATION.
Ousting others isn't the way to go unless they are a politian hiding and voting on bills that restrict the GLBT community.Those politicians don't deserve to hold office.
Those who wish to stay in the closet thats fine.As long as their not voting againist their own community.
I have a letter I've been sending out for some time now called Wolves in Sheep Clothing/Moral Laws/Transitioning/Humanities Judgement/FREEDOM!WHOS'IS IT ANYWAY.I have sent it out around 900 times so far.First to 96 of the 99 Senators who have a website.3 weren't delivered for some reason.Plus many state legislators and about85 of the top 100 newspapers as well,and to many others.
My point being is just as I stated earlier.How can one complain if their not willing to speak out and take some kind of action and how can anyone vote for a politician whos not willing to support FREEDOM FOR ALL including the community their apart of.
I understood your point Keith.Keep the masses talking.Only by taking action will their ever be equality for all.
Love,your sister in
Jesus Christ
Dee

DMF
October 18 2005, 3:10PM

I'm not a fan of outing because I see it as an unnecessarily aggresive and ultimately alienating act. I straddle the fence on voluntarily coming out because there are always variables involved. Will you be in physical jeopardy, as a young person living in a potentially violent situation might be? Will your job or family be in danger? But, I believe if more of us lived in an "out" manner; e.g. brought our partners to social functions, kept their picture on our desks, shopped in and otherwise participated in our communities together, there wouldn't be a "need" for formally coming out; we might actually have an environment that supported the living of an out or open life. Other than the few arguably weak representatives of gay and lesbian people on t.v., people could say they didn't know a gay or lesbian person, but coming out would render that untrue. Maybe some of us in urban areas, even in those lesser known urban areas, are arrogantly comfortable in our "out" lives that we assume that most lesbians & gays in either rural areas or small towns are closeted, and that it's up to us to play homo-superhero.

I would offer these question: if you don't have access to formal avenues for complaining, such as the voting booth, is your complaint less legitimate? Are you or are you not brave if you don't choose to make a point of coming out? And if you're unable to engage in discourse like this, are you less important in the larger context of liberation?

Ras James
October 18 2005, 3:20PM

Sista Laura and Sista Kola, Up until say, a few short days ago, SGL was being included in the posts of Keith Boykin and the NBJC. If memory serves me correctly we were all using SGL/LGBTI. Have things changed? If so, then why?

Laura
October 18 2005, 3:26PM

Hey G - how many times are you going to spam us with that one little article?

leon a. james
October 18 2005, 3:26PM

i am sad. the anger, the pain, and the frustration that i feel as i read the comments shared by so many of the men on this blog is often overwhelming. i often wonder if the energy given over to this rhetoric, cloaked as a war cry, would be better spent by addressing the sense of lose and emptiness that motivates us to lash out at each other. in my less critical and empathetic moments, i completely join with keith’s, and many others, attempts to give voice to this experience, and act on what we feel best to heal themselves and a community that they are members of. what i struggle with, what has caused me time and time again to feel an overwhelming emptiness as i read these pages, is the sense that there must be a better way to do this. in honesty and truth, i have found very little affirming to my experience as a black man, who loves other black men, or simply a black man who loves. the calls to vilify, and tear down others (regardless of whether or not we agree), the attempts to erect an ideal way of being with another man (gay vs. sgl), or living our lives (out vs ambiguous vs closeted/dl), as well as the lack of respect for each other’s opinions, choices, and hurts only deepens wounds that i struggle to not only close but heal. and to be clear, i do not advocate a lack of accountability for or ignoring our responsibility toward each other, far from it. but these calls to punitively out people, to, in no uncertain terms, excommunicate those with whom we disagree or who have harmed us does not give honor to our pain, and in my experience only allows the wound to fester.

my act of leadership, my act of commitment, is to continue to love. love myself and love each of you, regardless of how our ways of being may differ. this love is exemplified in my work, my art, my relationships, my life. we are connected, regardless of what we do to break that connection. it seems to me that a far better way to use our energy and our passion is to build on this inherent relationship, instead of taking our wounds and living through them, all the while asking others to share the tragic consequences of our choice.

blessings,

leon

Laura
October 18 2005, 3:34PM

lol what is up with the language police?

we weren't "all" doing anything, ras james, i have personally never used "LGBTI". there's some new acronym or name every other year, as it is.

nothing has changed except perhaps your own anxieties over a few letters.

that would be my guess.

c
October 18 2005, 3:38PM

Anderson Cooper has frequently been involved with gay and lesbian issues, and among the many awards he has won is the Gay & Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation Media Award for Outstanding TV Journalism for his 20/20 Downtown report on gay high school athlete Corey Johnson. Perhaps partially because of this, there has been much speculation online regarding his sexual orientation. Blogger Andy Towle referred to Cooper as "the most openly closeted gay man in America" after reading a New York Magazine article which reported on the matter as follows:

There has been a lot of chatter on the Internet about the fact that Cooper may or may not be gay, and Village Voice columnist Michael Musto has taken pleasure in quoting the gay magazine Metrosource, which has referred to Cooper as “the openly gay news anchor.” It has been assumed in certain circles in New York partly because he lives what looks to some to be a gay social life. He’s often seen at parties with Barry Diller, and he’s friends with the lead singer from the outré gay rock band the Scissor Sisters. And then there was the tempest in a teapot regarding a slightly heated interview last fall with Jerry Falwell about gay marriage. Some Cooper-obsessed bloggers insist that the anchor outed himself on the air, taking the gay side of the debate and saying, “We pay taxes.” They claim CNN originally posted a transcript with the “we” and then later changed it to “You pay taxes.” Cooper has maintained all along that he said “you.” When I bring up the sexuality issue with Cooper, he says, “You know, I understand why people might be interested. But I just don’t talk about my personal life. It’s a decision I made a long time ago, before I ever even knew anyone would be interested in my personal life. The whole thing about being a reporter is that you’re supposed to be an observer and to be able to adapt with any group you’re in, and I don’t want to do anything that threatens that.”

Laura
October 18 2005, 3:38PM

"My beef is, if I told you that in all reality I'm a str8 man who happen to believe in equality would my coming OUT as str8 lessen my commitment to your cause or my understanding of your plight?"

coming out as str8 LOL!

what will they think of next...

Kenneth Winfrey
October 18 2005, 3:40PM

Leon,

I agree, and too feel a sense of pain here. We can be so hateful and hurtful in deflecting this pain. These message boards and this blog have often become vulgar places where people come to call each other names, curse, and ignore the basic modes of courtesy we more likely employ in person. Like road rage, it's obviously compensation for something else gone wrong...

Cody,

The first sentence states that I "encourage people to come out (on your own volition) to experience empowerment." If coming out is not an empowering experience for an indivudual, then they are not ready for it. As I wrote, "Of course, if you are not out, I wouldn't treat you any less than a human being." On the other hand, I also state that "If you're not out, you're too busy trying to hide your own secret to really be helpful to anyone else." So, if those who wish to help are straight, then they probably don't have anything to hide, nor would they be likely to find their own credibility in question. If they are not, they will be unprepared for the challenges general society, not me, will bring. For me, it's about the support of someone who can stand up to questions about themselves, if so confronted...and it almost always happens when things get "thick."

Furthermore, I feel that coming out can serve to educate. As I state, "If people don't know how many gay people there are; or that their own sons, daughters, brothers, sisters, cousins, and friends are gay, they are more likely to become hateful homophobes who will believe the untruths the media and the religious right perpetuate about us."

So, coming out is an opportunity to teach the world, not a requirement to exist, in my opinion. I don't feel that it is an admonishment, but rather something to consider.

Nevertheless, I am critical of anyone who would complain about an issue, and then do nothing to change it. Closeted people can, for exmaple, give money to the Lambda Legal Fund, the National Black Justice Coalition or even volunteer at a local community center. However, I am most unhappy with those who are so closted that they dissassoiciate themselves from any helpful activity, but complain as if someone else should be doing all the things that will someday make the lives of all gay or SGL people better. For those who don't do this, these words are probably not for you.

Consider also that people hiding in the closet are likely actually a bit of the part of the problem for all gay or SGL folk, because living in shame is not liberating to, or educational for anyone. They are arguably weakened by their own inability to claim themselves wholly and publicly. Furthermore, they lend credence to the idea that homosexuality is so rare, that we don't represent enough people to warrant new laws or public discourse to make things better for us.

Perhaps you assume that I subscribe to coming out as a political strategy dictated by Kieth Boykin or some other entity. However, I do not, and make it clear that I don't support "outing" as a political directive. I also state that "Nor would I "out" you. I don't support "outing" because it only puts people in situations for which they are not prepared..."

I might, however, concede that in my ideal world, we are all "out" and that having been out since I was 14 has provided me the context to speak from the first person to those who challenge me as a gay man, and therefore have found empowerment in being out myself.

Laura
October 18 2005, 4:03PM

"Ousting others isn't the way to go unless they are a politian hiding and voting on bills that restrict the GLBT community.Those politicians don't deserve to hold office."

or a preacher who stands up every other week for the cameras to proclaim "gay rights is not civil rights", adds antigay sermons to their repetoire, and contributes to our oppression, soup to nuts.

they are worse than the politicians, as at least the politicians are in theory supposed to have some mechanism for accountability.

People had a cow (and continue to have a cow) when Keith and jasmyne asked the simple question, well is they is or is they ain't. They were attacked for "attacking" these filthbags when they asked a single question, which no one was under any obligation to answer.

these same homophobes in collars were protected by the same cowards who are quite content to let people like Keith and Jasmyne and the rest of us out people do all the work while they support the status quo, ironically, under the guise of "non-conformity" LOL!

absurd.

so, outing others is not the purpose of this post, not as far as i can see. one can tell one other person in the course of their whole lifetime and be "out". unless they are a person in power who endorses antigay/antisocial behavior, it's ultimately up to the individual.

Cody
October 18 2005, 4:09PM

Laura,

You lessen the experience of hitting this site. You never fail to take the low road. You come across as a completely miserable witch.

Kenneth,

OUT as what?

WTF does OUT mean?

Someone who does what, when and to whom?

Define what OUT means that applies to all people and let's see if it fits anyone I know.

Laura
October 18 2005, 4:17PM

i could really give a crap if some person like you thinks i'm a "miserable witch", cody.

coming out has already been defined for you, in this and other threads. see my last post for one such definition. each person ultimately defines their own level of outness, that's just the way it goes.

don't like the idea? don't do it yourself, you daring nonconformist you. lol

Javier
October 18 2005, 4:22PM

Not to constantly piggy back off Cody but the brother speaks for me...I think the problem here is our definition of "out" and what it means to each of us individually. For some it's doning daisy dukes and black combat boots and white wifebeaters and march in the pride parade waving rainbow flags while yelling in the gayest of gay voices "were here, were queer, blah blah blah...while some choose to reveal their sexuality to family and close friends and not wear their sexuality on their forheads. I personally chose the later.

Laura
October 18 2005, 4:35PM

a lot of us choose the latter, javier.

nobody is forcing anyone to march in some parade or run around yelling, in sterotypical dress, why would you think those are the only two options?

there are a lot of ways of being out. each person chooses their own path and their own level, and it varies from time to time and place to place.

those of us who have been out for a long time learned this long ago, but we are also sick of carrying disproportional weight by being the only ones visible. it's tiring, there is nothing wrong with saying so.

Cody
October 18 2005, 5:24PM

And get this, all you 'Come Outers.'

A lot of the world, including me, really ain't interested in what you do sexually and who you do it with. It ain't our business.

If I ain't interested in do'n U, then please keep what you do 2 yourself. Frankly.

You folks walking around suffering from delusions think'n your crotch is so important and in the grand scheme of things, it ain't.

It's a form of Self Obsessiveness.

I say the same thing to str8 folks obsessed with the sex lives of others. Why? It ain't your business.

Kenneth, while you think it's so important that you came out at 14, I and the rest of the world could care less. That does not mean I don't, or we can't love you and give you all the rights you deserve. It just means your primal urges are not the center of our universe.

Shocking concept, right?

I'm glad coming out made you feel validated and good. But, there are other ways of reaching that level of self-acceptance and peace, if that's what it is.

I doubt that's what it is, because there just does not seem to be a real peace there for anyone I know. Otherwise the overemphasis on sex wouldn't be so important. "Out" folks wouldn't be killing themselves just to get a nutt. Living suicidal. Something's wrong.

Keith will be kick'n me out of here soon, I know. It's been real folks.

BklynScholar
October 18 2005, 6:00PM

I agree with the points about those that are risking their necks while others watch. Good point!

However, aren't the same people that disagree and dissent (anonymolusly) making your BLOG everything that it is? Just a question...

People will always have opinions, Keith. You chose to be in the limelight, so deal with it.
This may come as a shock to you - but although everybody benefitted from the civil rights movement. Everyone did not participate. I'm not saying that's a good thing. But struggle operates within the reality of life and human personalities.

I think you're just a lil hurt by the comments people have made about what happened at the MMM march. But you'll be fine, Keith. After all, you have a lot going for you as your supporters are quick to point out...Harvard, the new black Messiah etc. lol. I'm sure you'll bounce back and move on to the next fight soon.

With all that said, you still made some good points. I think that your views are sometimes elitist and I you promote a lot of superficiality sometimes. But, I'm not on the frontlines and despite the fact that I disagree with a lot of your personal choices, I support your efforts.

And what do you have to say, Laura? I'm sure you have a comment my dear?

Laura
October 18 2005, 6:32PM

"If I ain't interested in do'n U, then please keep what you do 2 yourself. Frankly."

you have it backwards. if you really ain't interested then just turn around and walk away, no harm, no foul, doesn't matter.

i'll say whatever i please, with or without approval from you or any other enabler of the status quo who resents what they cannot control.

that is the part about "out" queers that they despise the most; their approval or disapproval is totally irrelevant.

it must really hurt. lol

Jeff
October 18 2005, 7:06PM

Some of you just don't get it. This is not about sex as some of you have stated. People are doing that. This is about equal rights. And although some of you say you don't like heterosexuals talking about their personal life, they do it all the time. It's natural for people to ask those questions and if you think they don't then you're in denial. People say they don't care what we do in the privacy of our own home but if that were the case, there would be no need for the exchanges of thought here. Keith wouldn't need to go out on a limb.
And for the same people who think Keith is an elitist, I would like to flip that script and say that maybe some of you are insecure about yourselves. I mean God forbid a black man gets an education and happens to be attractive because then we say he's no longer black, he's an elitist, and because of these things, he cannot really relate to the black community. This is no different than gay men and women being scapegoats for what is ailing the community.

Kenneth Winfrey
October 18 2005, 7:15PM

According to by Dave Silverman, "“Coming out of the closet” is a term most associated with gays and lesbians announcing to the world that they are homosexual. Few regret it, having found their way toward a more open and satisfying life. As someone else mentioned here, it is also about "...brought our partners to social functions, kept their picture on our desks, shopped in and otherwise participated in our communities together." So it's about more than just an "urges." It's also about being able to freely join conversations where straight people talk about what they did over the weekend with their partners, or when they brag about their sex lives. Straight people are not the mavens of privacy some of you make them out to be.

Furthermore, "The world" in that definition is something that each of us must define for ourselves. For me, it was family and friends who got evasive or dishonest answers when the question of where, and with whom, I spent my time. For others, there is no one that demonstrates such an interest in our lives. Some of have parents, for example, that are so old or otherwise oblivious (not that being old is the same as being oblivious) that they would either treat the topic as one for debate, or ignore it altogether.

My coming out had nothing to do with whether or not "the rest of the world" acknowledged it. It was about my own capacity to share myself fully with those who wished to know me. It certainly wasn't about being obsessed with my crotch--which is nice, might I add.

Robert
October 18 2005, 7:34PM

To me, being 'out' has nothing to do with telling people what kind of sex I'm having.
It has EVERYTHING to do with telling people that the man in the picture on my desk at work is my husband - and yes, that ring I'm wearing is my wedding ring. Before I married him, it had to do with not lying to people when they asked what I did over the weekend, not making up s**t about a nonexistent girlfriend so the desperate single woman in my office would stop hitting on me -
basically, it was about not lying. Still is.

A
October 18 2005, 8:19PM

Keith, As a young black gay man at a Historically black college: I do not feel that it is smart to force people to come out, not only before their ready but also before they are able to deal with their families reactions.

I also have to say, we (the black gay community) are so proud of all that you are doing.
You must know your like an icon now, I've always looked up to you but even more so now.
Peace and love

A
October 18 2005, 8:20PM

Keith, As a young black gay man at a Historically black college: I do not feel that it is smart to force people to come out, not only before their ready but also before they are able to deal with their families reactions.

I also have to say, we (the black gay community) are so proud of all that you are doing.
You must know your like an icon now, I've always looked up to you but even more so now.
Peace and love

Kenneth Winfrey
October 18 2005, 8:30PM

...so it's not only about letting the world know us gay/SGL folk exist. It's also about being free to speak one's mind--and if some of them don't want to hear it, Cody and any other interested parties, they they are free to simply leave my space.

I'm so sorry Cody, but if you think that you can make coming out as irrelevant to everyone else as it seems to be to you, then you are wasting your time. Coming out is an institution.

NOTE: I use "gay/SGL" and other variations because I want people on both sides of that debate to know that I respect each perspective in the context of an ongoing dialog about the issue at this time. I'd hate to have anyone assume that I have anti-Afroscentric inclinations, because I don't.

cmoney
October 18 2005, 8:44PM

What's up with the people who think they've been "banned" from this site, yet they keep posting their messages? It seems to me that they post up here more than anyone. But that's beside the point. If you don't want to come out, don't. But don't hate on the people who have decided that they want to live an honest life, free from fear. Just don't come running back to the gay community for help when you get gay bashed, discriminated against at work or in housing or get kicked out of the hospital when your lover gets sick. That's the mistake O.J. Simpson made. He totally distanced himself from the Black community until he got charged with murdering two white people. All of a sudden, he needed the NAACP and got real "Black" and played the "race card" to get off. O.J. still ain't shit in the Black community. Don't be an OJ.
P.S. Laura, give 'em hell!!

Mel Smith
October 18 2005, 8:46PM

I'm so sick and tired of some straight people and so called straights bragging about their heterosexual status and trying to put us in a inferior position because of our sexual orientation. They have gotten alway with it for too long and it is time for more of us to challenge them. Heterosexuals attack us physically and also mentally with their dangerous rhetoric. Some of them are also sneaky because they pretend to be our friends and then talk behind our backs. As Laura stated, many of them have superiority complexes. On a daily basis straights try to lower our self esteem with their ignorant psuedo biblical beliefs and lame prejudice assumptions. Therefore, they definitely brag about their heterosexual status in our faces. Sadly, many of us join our oppressors side. The ignorant self hating brainwash 'Christian' gays are the truest fools of the heterosexists forces.

cody
October 18 2005, 9:03PM

Basically, my friends;

You're looking for a peace. Most of your lives you've lived in inner turmoil about your sexual identity and not seeing it fit with the rest of the world. Troubling, I'm sure.

Then you shared that incongruent feeling with others, maybe a lover, other gays, family and you felt relieved. That's great. Honesty sets us all free. The more open and honest we are with others and our selves the better we feel.

Your honesty liberated you, not your acceptance of being gay.

Because you never really accepted it. You've hated the limitation it has put on you and again, felt oppressed, downcast. So, what do you do, blame others. You seek others like you and want everyone to be gay. You want to force others to admit to being just like you so you can feel better. You even go so far as to OUT folks who ain't really gay at all in some type of twisted self hating logic that defies any type of sense.

You live desperate lives jumping from one sex partner to the next thinking sex is your answer because it makes you feel good at the time. You focus on the superficial and shallow because what's real and everlasting has eluded you.

You're frightened with getting old, becoming ugly, kicked aside by younger and more attractive pieces. You work-out religiously and attend all the bars and clubs looking for acceptance and approval.

You reject the Gospel because you feel it has rejected you. You know accepting it honestly would mean walking away from friends and associates who are just as lost as you are.

It all about you. Your self. Your feelings. Your needs. Your desires. Your nutt. Your face in the mirror. Your body in spandex.

But, it really is not about you at all.

When you open your eyes and see that, you will find the peace that eludes you. It's not about your feelings or your limitations. It's not about your looks or your lover. It's not about your degrees or your mother. Or your father. It not about what gender you feel you love, or who you go to bed with.

None of that even matters. It's all vanity.

What matters is what you do for other people. What matters is the good you bring to the lives of someone other than your self. What matters is your capacity to love, to forgive, to uplift, to feed, to care for someone else more needier than you are.

What matters is not you looking for where God is or ain't, but you to someone else, being God. Giving, helping, holding.

Hold someone dying in your arms until they are no longer afraid to go. Someone dying of AIDS, or old age.

Feed someone hungry who simply is too young, or too old to feed their selves.

Give someone clothes to wear instead of buying something for yourself.

Carry someone who cannot walk.

Cry that someone is lost.

It ain't about you.

That's where you will find your peace.

That's what Jesus did. That's what He taught.

That's what he's called us all to do.

cmoney
October 18 2005, 9:09PM

Cody, I thought you were banned. It's becoming quite obvious that it is all about YOU.

cody
October 18 2005, 9:24PM

Kenneth,

An institution -- like marriage, or prison?

You folks seem to be making it more like a CULT.

The Pod People from Invasion of the Body Snatchers.

COME OUT!!! COME OUT!!! JOIN US!!! BE US!! DIE WITH US!!!

Puleeze.

cmoney: Say something funny, please. That's when you're at your best.

Mel Smith
October 18 2005, 9:40PM

Do any of you ever visit the Black Planet website forums? One black guy actually advocated for the death of all homosexual people. Another black guy I debated called us scum,a disgraced to the African American community, and said he did not care if someone did something violent to us. Another black lady said, "you people" and the list goes on and on.

Laura
October 18 2005, 9:49PM

More blather from Ban-me Cody: "You're looking for a peace. Most of your lives you've lived in inner turmoil about etc. etc."

lol! not to mention countless heterosexists like yourself, offering these absurd sermonettes and unsolicited diagnoses of our every move.

you don't know, you don't get it, you're just confused, and guessing.

please, do us all a favor and stay in the closet, we don't need you.

you need us.

mel smith
October 18 2005, 9:49PM

Also, a white heterosexual male was also talking about f@gg@t this and f@gg@t that. No one stopped him and he actually has his own page on BlackPlanet.com.

Laura
October 18 2005, 9:53PM

mel -- well, that would be one reason i do not visit Black Planet...

Jeff
October 18 2005, 10:04PM

Cody, you're stereotyping a whole group of people when you think it all boils down to sex. White people did that to us and thought we were also these sexualized beings. They still do. I wonder if you would feel this apathetic if we replaced the word "black" for homosexual. And before someone comes up here and says it's not the same thing, save it. I know that. What I'm saying is it is very easy to trivialize someone else's pain when you haven't been in their shoes. What we do instead is play the "who suffered the most" game. That tactic hasn't worked so it's time for a new approach.

Laura
October 18 2005, 10:05PM

"You folks seem to be making it more like a CULT."

forced heterosexuality is the CULT.

Bible-banging, antigay Christianity is the CULT.

Ex-gay/Look-at-me!-I-have-something-to-prove! brainwashing is the CULT.

you call us a CULT because CULTS are your only reference.

it's just a website, Cody. these are just comments on the internet. no need to have a cow because people disagree with the same old homohating snake oil you're trying to repackage and sell as "Dissent" lol.

Laura
October 18 2005, 10:15PM

Jeff said: "Cody, you're stereotyping a whole group of people when you think it all boils down to sex."

well actually, Cody is revealing his own hangups, and like a typical heterosupremacist, can't properly channel them and chooses instead to project them onto the rest of us, with this insufferable babbling about Jesus and the Bible, stay in the closet, this is a cult, etc.

so transparent, so predictable, so obsessed.

Ras James
October 18 2005, 10:18PM

Sista Laura, If I gave you the impression that I am advocating some form of Language police, please accept my apologies. I intended to do no such thing. It would have been more appropriate to have asked the question of Keith Boykin.

My point was simply this: Will we continue to cooperate and move forward as One Community regardless of what we call ourselves or will be now allow semantics to allow some of us to be ostracized or excluded?

This is not a question to anyone in particular. I leave it here for collective consideration.

cody
October 18 2005, 10:26PM

Laura,

Rarely does someone's personality come off as clearly as yours does on these boards.

I hate you. lol

Jeff,

My comments are/were not directed to all SGL folks. Just those who insist that others live their lives just like they do.

To me, it's the same as evangelicals demanding that everyone converts and believe what they believe.

If you don't see the world as I do that perfectly fine with me. Everyone will not.

No one person has a patent on how to live a life. Any life.

But don't insist that I see the world as you do, either. Or anyone else for that matter.

We are all very different. We've lived very different lives.

What's important to me you may never understand. So don't insist that I, or anyone else, do as you do.

Come out if you want to.

That's been my whole beef here on this thread. Live and let live. If folks don't see that, I don't care.

Laura
October 18 2005, 10:29PM

ok ras james, looks like i misunderstood you, sorry.

my own view: gay, queer (my own choice), glbt, lgbt, lgbti, lgbtqq, lgbtiqq, sgl, homosexual, homoemotional, wtfe, everyone chooses the one that suits them, don't try to force any labels on anyone else...there are plenty to go around lol.

that's just me, though. others have their own views. i'd like to know yours.

devil
October 18 2005, 10:33PM

Laura,

Have you taken your medications?

I sense anger issues.

An aggressive, violent lesbian is such a cliche.

Strive to be different, baby.

Lick, lick.

Laura
October 18 2005, 10:38PM

"I hate you."

lol, of course you do, as does everyone else who resents what they cannot control. it's a consequence of resisting and exposing your supremacy complex. been doing it for many years, dear, get used to it.

i don't hate you, though. i don't have to.

and btw, i actually agree with this statement: "To me, it's the same as evangelicals demanding that everyone converts and believe what they believe."

unfortunately for you, no one here is doing any such thing.

except for you. which is of course why you have to resort to Evangelical bible-banging when you're backed into a corner.

one could set their watch by it, at this point.

Laura
October 18 2005, 10:40PM

say, "devil"/homophobe, where did i say i am "a lesbian"?

i'll wait.

Laura
October 18 2005, 10:43PM

come get me, "devil".

don't be scared dear, it's just the internet.

freaks, jeezis christ.

devil
October 18 2005, 10:49PM

OK,

I get it now. You get off on goading people, provoking them to engage you. You're one of them sickos. Yous a sycophant. Wow. Amazing.

So, come on call me more names so I can respond and you get your jollies off.

That's why you hated it so much when I ignore you. Then you call names, rant rave to get attention and get wet.

You don't read these posts for understanding at all. You have your twisted point of view and I could be writing in French it would not matter.

So, you're a real internet sicky.

I'm kinda slow. Took me a week to pick up on that.

Laura
October 18 2005, 10:55PM

"So, come on call me more names"

ah, i see...you get to call me "lick lick"/violent agressive lesbian, but i don't get to respond in kind.

more supremacist complex...sorry, don't need it, had enough of it.

pathetic.

mystical_spirit
October 18 2005, 10:56PM

And Cody, I love you! Thank you so much. You keep stating your opinion, baby. Nobody on this site has a monopoly on opinions or free speech. The site has a comment section. It is set up for commentary and feedback. That's how Keith wants it. Damn...can people comment without the reactive and barely thought out backlash?

I fear some of us are making this issue far less complicated than it is. There are probably 257 sides to this issue not just two.

If we acknowledge that the gay community is diverse as it is...then we should expect a diversity in opinion.

Laura
October 18 2005, 10:58PM

so come on "devil", is that the best you've got??

nauseating...

Mel Smith
October 18 2005, 11:26PM

I prefer homosexual because gay just seems like a stereotypical word or something. I like sgl better than gay. If they call themselves heterosexuals, we should call ourselves homosexuals. But our mental health has to be outstanding in order to live positive lives. Heterosexuals judging and hating on us is not cool. I understand that everyone don't have the same situations but if we don't defend ourselves, I think people will attack us more and more.

Bklynbro
October 19 2005, 10:50AM

Keith, there are many Black gays using their hearts in their communities on the regular who are very out. However, the difference between them and you is that it is more about their deeds, production and relationships in the overall black community. They don't waste time trying to continually promote oneself in the gay community while not having a solid track record of community accomplishments. They are individuals who are Black gay Americans doing for all Black Americans not just gays. And how would you know? Do you know about the efforts to battle bias crimes in Brooklyn and who is involved? I've never seen you at a meeting with the police. Are you involved with HIV/AIDS in Brooklyn? I've never seen you helping those who suffer here? I don't recall hearing about any proceeds from your tired Warrior Party in DC being a fundraiser going to any worthy cause. How dare you try to read others.

Keith, I like and respect you but when someone/organization steps out and claims to be my leader and represent me in the public media arena as a Black gay man or as a Black man you damn skippy I'm going to hold you to the highest standard.

Ian Johnson
October 19 2005, 3:56PM

Another thing:

Same Gender Loving (SGL) and Gay and or Homosexual are the same thing.

Like: Black, African-American and People of Color

It's all the same.

Candace
October 19 2005, 4:22PM

I have not read all of the messages yet but "Black, African-American and People of Color" ARE NOT ALL THE SAME. Someone can self-identify as being "Black" and have no American ancestry. There are "Black" people all over the world (Africa, France, London, etc.). Additionally, "People of color" include many people who are not considered black or African American (i.e. Native Americans, Latinos, etc.)

Now, let me get to reading the many posts.

Sane
October 24 2005, 4:04AM

Thank our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ from hiding the TRUE MEANING of the scriptures from the demonic world. God knew that they would try to destroy use His word to enslave people to acts of the flesh.

God is a SPIRIT, and flesh people like you all will never understand living moral. Only animals focus only on sex and food. Can you do anything else with your life because talk about sex.

How about something other than you penis or fist up someone's behind. Homosexuality is disgusting to God. Get over it, and stop wasting your time trying to make Christians accept your deviant behavior.

Muslims and Jews don't tolerate homosexuality, but I don't see you bashing them. Perhaps you know they won't waste time talking to you, they will just put you all on a line of fire and murder you. A Christian tells you the truth and you get angry. Do whatever you want to do with your body, but how stupid can you be to ask the government to give you special rights because you like anal sex?

Should all the people who like picking their noses form a group and say they were born that way? "Celibant Homosexual" that's a joke. You just don't have noone to screw at this time. Find a virgin homosexual,then we'll determine whether you were born that. Screw who you want, but you WILL burn in HELL if you don't change. Sorry, that's the truth...

Mel Smith
October 24 2005, 12:44PM

Sane, you are a complete ignorant fool and that is the truth.