Diary of A Mad Black God (by Tuan N'Gai)

Jazzi
March 7 2005, 1:46PM

I must say, I have never looked at this "Madea" phenomena that way. I'm sure a lot of people will say that this is just entertainment, not to be taken seriously, that it's church themed. I have said these things myself. You have given me something to think about. Thank you.

Jazzi
March 7 2005, 1:56PM

I must say, I have never looked at this "Madea" phenomena that way. I'm sure a lot of people will say that this is just entertainment, not to be taken seriously, that it's church themed. I have said these things myself. You have given me something to think about. Thank you.

Ambra Nykol
March 7 2005, 2:50PM

If anything, I certainly think Tyler Perry's depiction of Madea is far more from the "Martin Lawrence" genre of cross-dressing than it is from the RuPaul genre of cross-dressing. The major difference of course being that Tyler is straight, God-fearing, and actively looking for a wife.

mr
March 7 2005, 3:03PM

"For the Lord your God hates whoever does these things”"

Our loving God hates.

j. brotherlove
March 7 2005, 4:11PM

"The major difference of course being that Tyler is straight, God-fearing, and actively looking for a wife."

Oh really? Again, I believe it's what church folk want to believe. Now, just for grins, let's say Perry isn't straight or actively looking for a wife. Would he still get the church's support? Would his "message" be any different if it came from an openly out, black gay man?

I think we all know the answer.

whoissean?
March 7 2005, 4:23PM

Keith Boykin you are not alone in your analysis of the Medea character. On opening night, I was amazed to see how many black gay men turned out to support the film and in part, I think it was the "sassy drag queen" appeal. And to that person who compared the Medea character to Martin’s “She-na-na” Jamie Foxx’s character on “In Living Color” versus “Rupaul,” there really isn’t a difference. The definition of a drag queen is a man who dresses up in women’s apparel for entertainment purposes. I will take it one step farther, why did Medea have to be played by a man? And would it have been more acceptable or Christian if Medea was sexual? It was on purpose that Medea was non-sexual, overweight and caricatured after the stereotypical black female. In conclusion, I don’t believe that Perry’s audiences are religious fanatics. Perry plays it safe and only deals with the fundamentals of the Christian faith by telling formulaic stories using gospel as a background and the result is financial success. He’s a genius for combining the church with theater because like an evangelist minister, it has made him very rich.

Myron
March 7 2005, 5:14PM

Could you please define your use of "black church" and the support you suggest is given to Mr. Perry?

Are you referencing a specific institution, or are you suggesting that as a whole black churches hold the positions you suggest?

Myron

FRE
March 7 2005, 5:34PM

The church often uses the Bible simply as a source of proof-texts to support foregone conclusions, rather than getting doctrine from the Bible. Somehow they seem not to see things that proscribe what they are already doing or believe.

Don't think that it is only black churches. My experience is 99.44% with white churches and I assure you that they do the same thing.

Keith Boykin
March 7 2005, 6:14PM

By the way, this guest column was written by Tuan N'Gai, not by me.

Keith Boykin

alicia
March 7 2005, 6:41PM

hey keith
ditto

tyler is beautiful, gifted, and talented

laughter trumps all
even gaybashing
and tyler is cool...but sets my gaydar into overdrive

i adore the movie
especially the reversed skin tones of its leading lovers

peace
ab

Karmatic
March 7 2005, 10:16PM

Tuan N’Gai thankyou for those brilliant words my brother. I couldn't agree more with your assessment of the black church. The outright hiprocrisy and Religious dogma persists

Monica Roberts
March 8 2005, 12:35AM

Too bad that most Black Church members don't love their fellow transgendered African-Americans as much as they love Madea.

Monica Roberts
March 8 2005, 12:36AM

Too bad that most Black Church members don't love their fellow transgendered African-Americans as much as they love Madea.

Guess Who??
March 8 2005, 1:48AM

I read the article and frankly the movie was excellent. My Boyfriend and I were pleased and well-entertained for the evening that Saturday while we were out on the town that day. I do have to disagree that God shows his hatred towards his children. I believe the Apostle Paul said, "We all fall short of the glory of God." However, that does not mean God hate us or not pleased with his children. Yes, rather you are a homosexual, hetersexual, asexual, bi-sexual person, God still loves you and extend his grace towards all who seek after him. I do not write this out of education or the philosophical mindset, I say this out of love and my personal feelings.

I want to point out that the Church cannot accept all things we feel is pleasant and good! Yes, God do hate somethings and clearly defined them over and over again in his word. The Church (Not just the black church but all extended bodies) need to live, breathe and execute the will of God regardless of how we may feel. Especially this is geared towards the leaders in the body of Christ who rejects to perform their duties in the local assembly. We cannot accept just one part of God and reject the other part because it touches our flesh and soulish temptations or weakness. That is why God calls us for the, "Renewing of your mind." In doing this, the bible declares this is for the, "perfecting of the saints" which we are consistantly changed and edified as we are separating our spirit from our flesh desires.

I am very disturbed about the comment, "God's gay,lesbian, bi-sexual, trans-gendered, drag community to hell." Who can verify that God created us to partake in these actions? Likewise men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which is due." (Romans 1:26-27 NKJV). Yes, we should extend love towards all as God extend his warm arms towards us, but he does not accept all parts of our life that is against his will and in error to humanity. It is our personal decision and choice to live our life as we see fit and out of our perspective, and God grants us that power to make those choices. Even though the choices we make may not measure according to the covenant in accepting Christ, God still loves us and extend his precious grace.

Troy
March 8 2005, 9:42AM

RASHAWN BRAZELL remember that name.
http://gaycitynews.com/gcn_408/younggaymanhacked.html

MethodicWays
March 8 2005, 10:36AM

This is an incredibly insightful article esp. considering that it is something I deal with all the time. I've seen many of Mr. Perry's plays in the theater and I remember sitting there thinking how hypocritical it all was. Even speaking from a personal standpoint my own "god-faring-when-she-wants-to-be" mother was standing and swaying to the gospel songs, but how often does she make it to church?

I think it's interesting that not only has Tyler Perry's work become an outlet and almost way of promotion for the Black church but it also allows those not-so-holy to be so for a short amount of time.

And for those of you unsure, Tyler Perry's work is touted and promoted in the Black church so yes, God's good dollars are going to a drag queen. I wonder if the movie ticket counts for your tithes?

LiquidFonts
March 8 2005, 1:22PM

Tuan,

Excellent post

After Watching Perry on the Oprah Show last week, I am conviced that he is gay ( I think )
Oprah tried to ask him but he chose to talk about his shoe collection instead.- lol -

Anyway, one of the reasons why I believe people dont get all up in arms over this form of "under the radar " drag queen is because Madea is not trying to attract men. Roger Ebert went out of his way to call her something like a beast. LOL. (yea i heard the response for the black community ) Madea is not sexy and really isnt trying to fool anyone into believing that this is a woman so the stereotypes that black christian folk think of when they think of a drag queen dont really fit Madea. So its safe for them to consume his work similar to they way blacks enjoyed Flip Wilson and Martin Lawrence.

I think if Madea had attempted to be sexually attractive and all that it would be a very different story

But as it stands, Old Lady Drag is funny especially when she is prepared to bang heads.

parker
March 8 2005, 1:23PM

I'm glad someone brought this up... A long time ago I heard a statement that has stuck with me- Straight men in drag dress as women to make fun of them, while gay men in drag dress as women to glamorize women and to make statements about gender.

Beyond the cross-dressing that takes place in Tyler's plays and the film, I have always thought that the majority of the moral and social statements sent in his plays were troubling. He has created a soap opera for the black community, allowing people to feel better about themselves by viewing over exaggerated tragedies demonstrated in theater/film form. To days church goers like the film and his plays not because they are fundamentally Christian, but because they can leave feeling better about their own practices and faith.

Personally I did not like the movie... I think that a major part of what makes Tyler Perry’s plays work is the improv that takes place. The transitions in the movie were not smooth and madeas character seemed more demented than funny. I enjoy the plays...they are entertaining (only). My problem is, that whether Tyler is gay or not, his plays that seem to try to send a message out to the public are not usually on point (Why was this Christian woman so mad again? And is everything really all better now that she has found a new man?) I sat in magic Johnson theater (trying to get the full affect) unmoved and sad that there just might be another hollow Tyler Perry film coming soon.

whoissean
March 8 2005, 3:07PM

Why is it that we as black people feel as if we can't have an intellectual conversation about other black people? The main response i've gotten back about Perry is that "leave that man alone, he's made it." So what, does that mean a brutha can't have an intellectual opinion about him, his work and its reflection on our community.

Jamel
March 8 2005, 4:56PM

Tuan, I enjoyed reading your comments.

jaymillionaire
March 9 2005, 2:41AM

I thought this was a film review. My mistake.

Troy
March 9 2005, 9:26AM

A meeting regarding Rashawn Brazell's recent death and what we should do further about to bring recognition and clear understanding to the one's we love and our own lives takes place tomorrow at Day O's Restaurant in New York City at 6p.m. Please be there.

It's a need to come together, right now. To show them that there are many of us. Many who care and want change for the better.
We need to demand that the New York City police place a high priority on this case and the one last year in the same area where a black gay man was found with his throat slashed and tie to his bed.
We need to call the media out on their lack of coverage.
We need to make people accountable and we need to be accountable to and for ourselves.
Just as if this was some white female coed in Minnesota, or a young pregnant white woman in California, or a teenage white girl in Utah.

SHOW THEM THAT OUR LIVES MATTER TOO.

All interested parties should meet Thursday nigh, March 10th at Day O's Resturant in the West Village in New York City at 6:00pm.

I hope you can make it.

Rashawn Brazell was recently murdered and dismembered while on his way to meet up with someone on a date. For more details use this link
http://larrylyons2.blogspot.com/2005/03/rashawn-brazell_05.html
Please get involved. What had happened to him could be me or you.

Mark Norris
March 9 2005, 10:44PM

Hey Keith love you. Thanks for putting this article of Tuan N'Gai. I had read it a few days before from a group email newsletter I am in.

My post is directed toward "Guess Who" and a few others.

You sir or maam would be highly offended if you ever came to the Long Beach, CA area and ran into me. The reason, not because I would say anything to you to offend you, but because of who and what I stand for. You see my dear, I have a shirt and a bumper sticker which reads, "GAY BY GOD". Now, I know some of you want to quote the Bible like that is your God instead of God himself, but this I know to be true. And you would to if you knew just how much He has brought me through. I am personally a big, big fan of Tyler Perry's. Have been before all of the rest of you all, (lol, no pun intended) got wind of him. I do believe that if God created everything on earth and I know He created me therefore He created my sexuality. People like you who know nothing about being oppressed or gay could never understand us when we say it is who we are period, not a choice. The only choice that comes in is whether we are going to hide who we truly are and live for others with the mask of living for God. And before you email me back, I have one question for you to ponder.....God is so good and wonderful and His ways are more than we can comprehend that he created beautiful beings with two sexes. Do you and your interpretation of the Bible have an explanation for that???? Also, for the gentlemen I presume who post as "mr." and quoted scripture, "For the Lord your God hates whoever does these things”" Our loving God hates." That is Old Testement talk and thinking. When Jesus came He said it is finished (which means done, finito, caposh, end, over, ovah). I hear so many say, oohh can we afford to have God's wrath again like Sodom and Gomorrah, God hates see it says it here in the bible. Come into the New Covenant. It is much brighter on this side God/Jesus/Holy Spirit loves us, no matter what. Why because we are Gay By God.

Mark Norris

Regan DuCasse
March 10 2005, 12:43PM

GREAT POINT!!
Drag is as old as ancient Greek plays to Shakespeare stagings because women weren't allowed to perform, so men had to play women.
Those Biblcal admonishments against intergender apparel was ridiculous from the start!
These Bible wavers have no sense of cultural differences for dress or the impracticality and horrendous imprisonment that women's clothing has posed for centuries.
I am very distressed that black clergy and church goers dont hear the echoes of the worst segregationists coming from their own mouths.
As Rev. John Lawson expressed once:
"Blacks, for support of their civil rights had family and the church, most often, gay men and women have neither."

Guess Who??
March 10 2005, 3:29PM

Response to Mark Norris:

1. I am a young, black, gay male from Chicago. I trust this information is sufficient in response as you addressed me as, "sir or ma'am" as I am a black man so happen to be a Doctor.

2. Yes, God did create us even though philosopher's and scientist's at every chance over the centuries try to say otherwise.

3. If God created you and I do not deny that, how or what evidence can you provide that he created sexuality? Diametric arguments have it that God created, ordained and blessed heterosexuals and that this is that NATURAL sexuality for humanity. Do you believe that almighty, powerful God create mistakes? Assume the answer is yes, because you are gay and not a heterosexual male who is attracted to women. The phrase, "Gay by God" implies that God created, ordained and blessed other sexualities outside of the normal, natural affection for women- heterosexuality. If this is so, one must conclude that sexuality is not created or a natural occurence. Therefore, the phrase, "Gay by God" is inaccurate and unsupported!

Mark Norris
March 10 2005, 6:32PM

Response back to Mr. GuessWho???

Thanks for clearing up the matter of your sex and sexuality. I am wondering if by such knowledge as you claim to have if this will get you to heaven by just your knowledge or I prefer to say perception of the bible. How do you feel about yourself and God?

I also never stated that or you assume that I think that God makes mistakes. If the truth lies in you perception ....yes. But it doesn't. Sexuality is not for the sole purpose of procreation, which is where I see your leading to as the natural function behind sexuality. Sexuality is an expression of love between two individuals. If sex and heterosexuality is the normal way of humanity and probably in your eyes the reason to procreat, then what about women who can't have kids? Are they out of the will of God and therefore damn to hell. Once again I will ask you, what about these beautiful (understand I said BEAUTIFUL) beings we now call hermaphrodites? What is your conclusion on this, doctor? My take is that God is so awsome He is showing us He is God. You ask for my proof that God created sexuality. Do you have any that proves He didn't? My proof is ME!!! I have tried sex with women that was my first sexual experiences. All three times same thing happened; I vomited. In a gay person, and I mean a true gay persons life it is who we are. You of all should know this. But instead people like you rely solely on text books to give you all of the answers. Being a Black, Gay and Christian Man I have to believe that God created my sexuality. More so I truly believe that God created everything that is natural (trees, ocean, animals who some species engage in homosexual behavior too, and most of all he created humans). And yes, for Lesbian and Gay Men homosexuality is natural.

God bless you brother. I love stimulating my mind. And btw, I have the utmost respect for you and yours. In the end we all will know.

Mark

Mark Norris
March 10 2005, 6:38PM

I forgot one more thing for you Guess Who???

Since you so into the bible; Jesus spoke these words
Matthew 19:12
: For there are some eunuchs, which were so BORN from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were MADE eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have MADE THEMSELVES eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is ABLE to receive it, let him receive it."

Sort of a opposite of beings with two sexes. Wonder who our Savior was referring to?? HMMMMMMM

Guess who??
March 11 2005, 6:14AM

Mr. Norris,

1. You must read the beginning of the 19th chapter as Jesus responds to the twelve disciples and the Pharisees about MEN and WOMEN concerning divorce. Specifically, your interpretation of the 12th verse is distorted into sexuality. Jesus responding to his disciples was saying that because of the immorality of man, and our selfish, flesh desires of cheating and unfaithfulness, we force women (wives) to be celibate and withholding in sexuality towards their husband. Furthermore, this scripture never indicated the creation of sexual orientation. Therefore, God is not responsible. Please keep in mind that in this verse, Jesus, beautifully explains that there will be some women who will devote their life to the advancement of the kingdom of heaven. Did you notice that he never said for the advancement of the church...why is that? (This is a side lecture) Thus, this concludes this is a choice (women or men) to be celibate to perform the work of the commission for the church, if not forced but unfaithful marriages. We see this "monastic" way of life in the Catholic establishments, which is known, as, asceticism. I want to interpose that we must use rationalism and strick the balance cord in humanity, if not; we will never see evident truth or sustainability. Everyone so far has responded one-sided arguments of fideism, which gives truth to reason of human perspective but no measure to the Godly truth.

2. I do not center my thesis that heterosexuality revolves on the ability to procreate. You seem to miss the point I set forth regarding what is natural and what is not. Please elevate your understanding processes, I hope when you read it again, it will enlighten you. I know you are not a philosophy or theology student of mine, but try again!

3. You mentioned that your proof of sexuality is yourself. Frankly, this is a poor appendage, given that you is not known or compared in testing to 6 billion other humans. You further introduced that you slept with women and men. Did it ever occur to you that this is a phase of experimentation? If your sexuality is created or natural, then there is no need for experimentation or deviation from what you were designed to be or do.

4. Sexual orientation, rather heterosexual, homosexual, or bi-sexual at this time, cannot be concluded as natural.

5. My knowledge and interpretation of the bible and other sacred texts are impressions (Something unchanging through time, direct sensory) not perceptions as that is for Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny.

6. The great Philosopher W.K. Clifford said, “It is immoral to adopt belief without evidence.” However, the Philosopher William James said, “The will to believe.” In summary, we search for truth and we must test it, our downfall is that we believe partial truths, one-sided arguments, and not exploring the diametric side with the correct critical eye.

khalid
March 11 2005, 7:15AM

i really don`t know why people pay attention to the Black church. it`s an irrelevant institution that hasn`t done anything for the Black community in years. you`re better off just praying at home and giving your money to a real charity.

DMF
March 11 2005, 10:19AM

Guess Who --

I'm often amazed and amused by individuals who make a point of announcing their wealth of education and then either spell poorly or use not-so-great grammar, almost as if the degree justifies the questionnable substance of their arguments. I don't make the above statement to be insulting, only to wonder why, with the advanced education you have, do you insist on perpetuating the same "homosexual agenda" mentality that so many do?

One of the many issues I have with the perception of the LGBT-SGL community, be it from inside or outside, is that one's contributions are driven solely by one aspect of one's self. You make it a point to identify as a Ph.D, but that isn't all you are. The reverse is true -- by identifying with causes that affect LGBT-SGL people doesn't create an "agenda." If that were true, why not ask what the "Black agenda" is or what the "women's agenda" is, or the "AIDS agenda."

In a previous post, you implied that heterosexuality is natural, and homosexuality is not. According to my pocket Webster's II (New Riverside, 1996) natural is defined as existing in or produced by nature; following the usual or expected course. I'm most interested in the "usual or expected" piece. Follow with me. If we apply the "usual and expected" course of things, then we weouldn't have the conveniences of the modern age, including, ironically, the very Internet we're all using as a means of communication. To use something even simpler, was it "usual or expected" to put a bunch of wires together with a transmitter on one end and a receiver on the other end for purposes of sending words translated into short and long beeps, to be translated back into words? My unfortunately long point is that it's simple to dismiss same-sex desire and relationships as not "natural" and therefore make a blanket statement that anyone with these desires doesn't have cause to ask for equal treatment under the law simply because anyone manifesting same-sex desires doesn't fall under the "usual and expected" umbrella. For that matter, Jesus himself wouldn't because his behavior was definitely not "usual and expected."

To answer your question, "Can someone provide me an answer to what notible contribution(s) to wider-society that the black homosexual agenda have given? " I would ask you what YOU believe is the black homosexual agenda? You claim ALL young Black gay men using more resources for HIV than for anything else, following that with the argument that at least women thanked society for their empowerment by joining the World War II workforce. Again, the "usual and expected" course had to be blown up in order for women to be able to live independent of male control. Yes, Black men haven't always done the right thing, but none of us do. Yes, sometimes Black folks spend more time than necessary living under oppression sickness, but to say that America hasn't been influenced or changed by Black gay men, Black lesbians, or "black homosexuals" (to use a phrase I think you'd be more comfortable with) is just untrue. I can give you the names you already know, but there are plenty of others like Clarence Patton, whose interview is posted here, who you may not have heard of. Pastors, writers, activists, parents, teachers, people who influence the world day after day. Even you, Dr.

I'm sick to death of the divisive tactics like "what contributions have Black gays made," and "we can't blah blah blah, but we can make it to Black pride events, blah blah blah." I've asked the same questions, but I also have to balance the "what have we done latelys" with "look what we have done." That's a lesson all of us, no matter how we identify, could learn.

Monica Roberts
March 11 2005, 10:19AM

What contributions have Black Gays made to our society?

Did you know that a Black gay man by the name of Bayard Rustin co-founded the Southern Christian Leadership Conference, organized the 1963 March on Washington, and was the man who enlightened Dr. King to Gandhi's nonvoiolence philosophy?

Black gays were present and active participants in all the Civil Rights Movement marches.

Coretta Scott King pointed out during a April 1998 speech to the 25th Anniversary Lambda Legal Defense and Education Fund luncheon that “Gays and lesbians stood up for civil rights in Montgomery, Selma, Albany GA, St. Augustine FL and many other campaigns of the Civil Rights Movement.”
She said that “Many of these courageous men and women were fighting for my freedom at a time when they could find few voices for their own, and I salute their contributions.”

She also had this to say about gay rights and the civil rights movement:

"We have a lot more work to do in our common struggle against bigotry and discrimination. I say “common struggle” because I believe very strongly that all forms of bigotry and discrimination are equally wrong and should be opposed by right-thinking Americans everywhere. Freedom from discrimination based on sexual orientation is surely a fundamental human right in any great democracy, as much as freedom from racial, religious, gender, or ethnic discrimination."

Guess who??
March 11 2005, 12:28PM

I thank you for pointing out my grammatical errors, which are minimal. Please keep in mind that I do not critically edit, rough draft, or sit for three hours at my laptop going over all grammatical and spelling rules. Trust that I am a better writer than what you see but I am not here for you because you are not compensating this site or me. (No hard feelings Keith, I love you!)

Next, I took a quick glance at your response and noted some grammatical and misspelled words as well.

You misspelled the words: questionable, notable, and lately. You have a few cases of passive voice sentences and fragment sentences as well. (I have issues with passive sentences too. I am not perfect and never claim to be) I also see comma usage errors, and you are a very heavy user of the can’t, wouldn’t, shouldn’t, don’t, etc. Did you proofread as well? Frankly, I can careless when I am writing and responding at my leisure, therefore, I do not take this serious. I have a question, which one is grammatically correct, PhD or Ph.D? Please address me with PhD.

Now, I really do not have time to answer your questions/comments (I have a lecture to do today) but you have a weak argument that I might address later tonight. For starters, if something is usual or expected, then explain why we have variable outcomes?

Please note I have writing consultants (Who are Doctors as well) who are at my disposal. They are there for me in case I have to make press releases, publications, articles, reports, reviews, etc. They are wonderful women, Curry Young Associates of Chicago.

I will say this; I believe this is a cheap tactic (grammar and spelling critique) on me because you do not have a sufficient answer to my question. Just because I do not agree with the rest of the black gay community and have a critical eye, and raise fundamental thinking questions, do not hate on me. I am here to help but I do not have to agree or subjective with the "general" thinking pool of people.

Guess who??
March 11 2005, 12:41PM

Monica,

These are one or two individuals not the entire community. Most of your reply encompasses accolades given by Coretta Scott-King. What MAJOR contributions can the gay population say, “We did this” for society? This answer simply does not suffice.

Mark Norris
March 11 2005, 1:12PM

Dr. R.W. Weeks

I guess my interpretation is not the only one who needs to be worked on. When I slept with women (btw, I love women most of my friends are women) it was because I was trying to deny my true sexual nature because of parents and societal views against homosexuality. I knew I had this attraction for men and up until the time I decided to see if indeed I could be sexual with women is when I did this "experimentation" as you call it. It was out of mere people pleasing if you will when I did it. It didn't work as I stated before. I am assuming not interpreting, but assuming that you believe that I and other like me choose this. If that is the case then why on Earth would someone choose a way of life that meant they were damn to hell? And once again you didn't give your "expert" analysis on hermaphordites. Also, so because of man's immorality etc. is the reason for Eunuchs? Please good doctor enlighten me more. Because I remember the verse as having a line; some are born that way, some were made that way by men, and others made themselves that way for the kingdome of God. So men were born eunuch because of men's sefish and immoral ways. Do you think that women shouldn't speak in church? Or that we should be abstaining from certain foods? Or that Africans should be enslaved? Because all of this is how the Bible has been used to oppress others.

In your orginal post on Keith's site you stated that you went to see the movie, Diary.., with your boyfriend. I know this is not really non of my business, and I am sure you will tell me. But, are you in love or is it just sex? I think you understand my curiosity. How can a gay man, if indeed you are, be so full of misguided and self-loathing of themselves. You might say your not and maybe for some strange reason you might feel your exempt, but that is what deep down you are.

We could go on and on, back and forth because it seems we are both strong willed individuals who have their own view on life, love and spirituality. But I hope that we can just agree to disagree. And if not so be it. Because after all you are a "DOCTOR" and I am a mere "student" so therefore you have to educate me. Just remember it is doctors and scientist that have discovered in recent years that Lesbians and Gay men are born that way. So that being the case, I believe and I don't know about you, that God created me. That is what makes us uniquely different. Just accept it.

DMF
March 11 2005, 3:18PM

Dr. Guess Who --

While I did misspell "questionable", I quoted you, so it is your misspelling of "notable," and since you used the colloquial "hate on me" I was surprised you didn't recognize my colloquializing "lately." Save the condescending "I don't have time blah blah blahs..." for none of us have time, and you clearly don't have time to learn for yourself why a question such as "what has the black homosexual agenda contributed to society" is so loaded.

You missed my point. I didn't attack your thesis by pointing out your lack of proofreading. I attacked your thesis because you seem to minimize or trivialize any contributions that gays & lesbians have made to society, whatever their ethnicity, with something like "that's just one or two individuals." If one or two individuals behave badly, such as The Game and 50 Cent, does that mean hip hop is any less significant? It seems you're trolling this site looking for a reason or two to prove that the homosexual existence is nothing more than a simple glitch in the order of things, and therefore doesn't need support. If you weren't being so dismissive, defensive of your intellectual superiority and importance, e.g. having a lecture to give and having writing assistants at your disposal, you would have noticed that my answer was in support of your last question: why do we have variable outcomes?

I'm not planning to go back & forth with you. I'm tired of having to defend myself to people who commit far more sins in volume and impact than my wanting to have protection of my relationship under the law, and I'm REALLY tired of self-loathing cloaked under the disguise of "critical thinking." You asked the question about contributions by Black lesbians & gays. You're a teacher -- wouldn't you suggest reading a book? Dismissing legitimate responses with "so-and-so has already said blah blah?" Fine. Go read "Gay American History" by Jonathan Ned Katz. Visit Blackstripe.com. Read Keith's writings. Questioning is fine. Even disagreement is agreeable. This is just... sad.

Guess Who??
March 11 2005, 6:30PM

DMF,

I am not here to make others feel inferior. I have asked this question now for two years. Everytime it is raised, people balk at it. Why? There is no major contribution we can account that the gay community make to society. You mentioned the hip-hop culture which existed for some time now. Yes, we will have one or two individuals that will act up, no doubt about that. I do praise the initiative P. Diddy sponsored in "Vote or Die." This was a major contribution to society all across america for young black voters. This is the most recent contribution hip-hop birthed. Trust me, I am not here to go back and forth with you either. There is nothing wrong in raising questions and seeking for truth, right?

Jamel
March 11 2005, 8:41PM

Guess who, history will not respect you for being a "yes sir" individual who attacks black gays, like we really have power. You make conclusions and disagree with many people, but you can never present evidence to support your views. I think one of your sentences suggested that gays have not contributed anything to history. Although, I find that statement offensive and it insults James Baldwin, Audrey Lord, Langston Hughes, Bayard Rustin and many others, you have the right to express yourself. It's ok to have different perspectives, but I think you should research the lives of those gay individuals. BAYARD RUSTIN WAS ONE OF THE GREATEST HUMAN RIGHTS LEADERS IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND.

Guess Who??
March 11 2005, 9:22PM

Jamel,

These individuals made great accomplishments, no contest to that fact. However, did they proudly express their sexual orientation as a homosexual male? Did they press for your freedom of expression? I do not see these gentlemen concerned about the rainbow flag, why should I?

Mark Norris
March 11 2005, 9:40PM

OH Hell NO!!! You know what, I am through. Mr., PH.D, PHD., Dr. or whatever the hell you claim to be you are not worth the time and space on this great site. Live in your ignorance for all I care. "What major contributions have black gays and lesbians made"? How dare you. You got your nerve, you remind me of a black person who can't stand thier own face because they are black. What a sad, sad life you have.

Keith, I am sorry I even went there with this person. Your site is way too classy and insightfully positive for me to get caught up in useless (useless because whatever we say guys he will find an obsurd counter) rhetoric.

Much love. "Guess Who????, I will keep you in prayer..........BROTHER.

Mark Norris

Jamel
March 12 2005, 12:34AM

Guess who, read any book or material on the life of Bayard Rustin. He was deeply admired by blacks, but whites and others also idolized him. Before his death in 1987, he spoke on behalf of gay rights. Now he was not a gay activist, but he understood the need to challenge prejudice. He was also an interesting figure because liberals and conservatives had respected him and many of his views. However, some people had also disagreed with his views. His life story is full of action and I recommend everyone to research it.

Ke Ke Daniel
March 12 2005, 12:52AM

Guess Who...take these words from Lackawanna Blues..."Man, Go on way wit that silly talk"..or take it to "Boogaboo College"

jasper
March 13 2005, 10:23PM

Keith, once again you're beating a dead horse, eventhough you are absolutely right! These people in the Black church you're referring to certainly are ignorant. I've given up on them, not waste my time with them, and know that my spirituality will not be undermined by these hypocrits.

Eric
March 14 2005, 9:50PM

I am so glad that someone else feels the way I do. I like Perry's work but, I can go to any club and see the same act from Sophia MacIntosh a famous drag comedian.